pembrokestephen
New Member
Ah. What, even moving a couple of sockets around?Hood said:
*whispers "fuck that", and wanders off, muttering*
Help! Our kitchen needs sorting out: units/lino
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*whispers "fuck that", and wanders off, muttering*
Errol's son
Well-Known Member
pembrokestephen said:
Anyone who notifies building control when moving a few sockets around would be an absolute idiot IMHO.
pembrokestephen
New Member
That's about the size of it.Errol's son said:
<rant>
What fucks me off about these stupid laws is that they're only ever really going to be enforceable with a certain amount of consent and goodwill. Yer average householder (me included), no matter how much he might fancy his leet electrickery sk33lz, is going to see the sense in regulations that exist to make sure that nobody makes any excessively stupid mistakes, but when it starts getting to the point that it's next-to-impossible to do ANY DIY task without having someone get bureaucratic on your arse (not to mention the cost), people are going to start getting fed up with it. I strongly suspect that that is already happening. What it means is that the cowboys and bodge merchants, who wouldn't have dreamed of doing a decent job, far less notify it, are now indistinguishable from the capable but can't-be-bothered-with-the-paperwork types, so nobody really gains.
I think the problem has only been made worse by the myth, enthusiastically put about by electricians, that Part P now means that only an electrician can do notifiable work - that's a myth that I've been told by several electricians, and which, to my certain knowledge, dozens of non-electricians have been told and believe. All smacks a bit of "jobs for the boys".
</rant>
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
...and yet things like this happen...there are two instances of electric shock mentioned here and both times they were written off as 'static'
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4348460
edited to add....and both shocks written off as 'static' were in social housing....I wonder who checked the work?
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4348460
edited to add....and both shocks written off as 'static' were in social housing....I wonder who checked the work?
pembrokestephen
New Member
Quite. I'm presuming that the work was done and checked by professionals?Mrs Magpie said:
In some ways, a responsible amateur has the potential to be LESS dangerous, since (assuming "responsible") he's a lot less likely to be as cavalier about it.
And I note the somewhat authoritative bollocks being talked on that thread you linked to about volts and amps - the only one who seemed to actually UNDERSTAND the issue, rather than spouting crap about amperages, was laptop.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
He's good that laptop is...legal stuff, electrical work and goodness knows what else besides....
pembrokestephen
New Member
A readable posterMrs Magpie said:
I hope to high heaven he doesn't appear on this thread and discover us talking about him like this...
pembrokestephen said:
But most laws are like that, from not downloading kiddie porn to using your mobile whilst driving. Our legislators hope that people will, by and large, obey.
The problem with notifiable DIY jobs is that they require you provide test results and for that you need to spend £500+ on equipment, and then you've got £200 on building control inspection fees. So if you want to obey the law it's probably cheaper to get someone in, but you can see why people just wouldn't bother. I don't know what else they could have done though to stem the rising deaths from electrocution.
When I sold my last flat it obviously had just had a brand new kitchen fitted and my buyer's solicitor asked for the completion certificate, so it is to an extent self policing.
pembrokestephen
New Member
But most people can see the sense in not downloading kiddie porn or using their mobile while driving.Hood said:
Most people, most of the time, can see the sense in having some proper regulatory stuff around the idea that electrical installations should be safe, too. But I get the feeling that the Part P business goes just a bit too far in restricting what can be done, and that is the point where I suspect people will turn around and say "ah, to hell with it: I'll just do it anyway, and if I can get away with it, I will."
Slight derail, but I can't be the only person to have noticed how anything involving a service from the State or local authority seems to have got vastly more expensive over the last 10 years or so...? To have to fork out £200 for BC approval for (say) moving a couple of sockets around in the kitchen is a pretty good way of ensuring that a lot of people won't, which somewhat negates the purpose of the rules...
I think, like CORGI, people will simply start to believe that it's illegal for them to do DIY electrics which I guess is what the government want.
It's odd that people are happy to fiddle around with electrics but wouldn't dare solder a gas pipe together. I suppose it's because gas is more tangible and the safety message has been broadcast for longer.
It's odd that people are happy to fiddle around with electrics but wouldn't dare solder a gas pipe together. I suppose it's because gas is more tangible and the safety message has been broadcast for longer.
pembrokestephen
New Member
Well, we've established that if you want to do anything involving the electrics, the bottom line just went up by a few hundred quideditor said:What's happened to my thread about sorting out my kitchen?
It looks like you have several main challenges, namely
- Flooring
- Kitchen Units
- Appliances
If my experience was typical, you'll find that most of the tiles will just come up quite nicely, while a few will be recalcitrant and require a fair bit of hacking and bashing. It'll give you sore wrists.
Assuming that the old floor is reasonably intact, not too many tiles missing or loose, you could consider laying a new floor straight on top. Personally, I'd go for padded vinyl - it's reasonably hardwearing, easy to lay (but if you have a HUGE kitchen, too big for one piece of vinyl, then you may want to get professionals in to weld the two pieces together), and it's nice to walk on in bare feet. Also, being padded, stuff you drop is a bit less likely to smash.
As far as the kitchen units go, I suppose a big factor is whether or not you want to keep things in the same arrangement you've got them at the moment. If you're going to move appliances around, then you may potentially have wiring/plumbing issues to deal with. After that, it's a question of planning the arrangement of your new units. You're probably best off doing that - it's YOUR kitchen, and you will presumably have the best idea about your usage patterns. There's various bits of guff on the web about best practice and all that...
Along with the units, you absolutely must give some serious consideration to lighting. I suggest that the halogen downlighter option is probably best for general lighting - it's a good light, controllable, looks as smart as you like, and isn't ludicrously expensive. But you'll also probably want to look at putting some lights in under the cupboards to light the countertops. Halogen works there, too, but they do knock out a fair bit of heat, so you might prefer to consider mini fluorescent tubes there - they're cooler, and because they're lighting indirectly, they don't tend to be quite so annoyingly flickery. And you probably don't want dimmable countertop lights. Another option is ceiling-mounted halogen spots, but in my experience, you tend to be getting in the way of your own light all the time with them, unless you have loads and can focus them from the side down to where you're working.
Personally, I'd recommend the IKEA units, but their appliances were - last time I looked - all Whirlpool, which doesn't have a brilliant reputation. You don't need to get the appliances from the same place as the kitchen, anyway, so I'd have a look around and see what's what. It all depends on whether you want to get cheapo stuff like Hotpoint or some of the lower-grade brands, or be all posh and Smeg, Neff, AEG, Bosch about it. If you look around, there often seems to be some pretty good offers on things like ex-demonstration hobs and stuff.
Finally, all you need to do is find someone to install it all for you. If it's just a question of putting it all together, it doesn't need to be anyone hugely skilled (eg a chippie). The trickiest bit, in my experience, tends to be getting the worktops cut to fit each other, and holes cut to accommodate sinks, hobs, that stuff. If you're going to be moving things around a bit, then you'll need to look at the plumbing side of things - you may still get away with the electrics just by using a longer piece of cable from the wall point to the oven/hob. Same for the gas hob, if that's what you have - but I don't "do" gas, so I'm not sure if there are rules about the maximum length of the flexible pipe you're allowed, etc. Going on what was said up there ^^^ about certification of the electrics, it sounds as if it'd be good if you are able to demonstrate that you've made no changes to the electrics at all, as that means you don't have to notify it. Whether or not they would deem, eg., installing a new oven as notifiable, I'm not sure (but I have a horrible suspicion they will).
So, personnel-wise, in summary, you're going to need a person who can install the flooring, cabinets and surfaces, and do any tiling/upstand work you require.
You may also require the services of a plumber for any pipework to the sink, unless it's simple stuff, in which case your kitchen installer will be able to do it, and possibly a gas plumber to do any work to connect the hob.
Finally, given Part P and all that crap, you're probably going to need an electrician if you're installing a new oven, and you'll definitely need one if you're going to move any sockets, lighting, etc. around.
</massiveattempttorerailtheeditor'sthread>
For cheap appliances, I'm fan of Baumatic. I've put them in several kitchens now and never had a problems, and they look good.
www.trade-appliances.co.uk
www.trade-appliances.co.uk
pembrokestephen
New Member
Look! Ed!! Someone who puts appliances into kitchens! Grab him quickHood said:
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
We got a bathroom in Homebase and got it fitted by somebody who was recommended. Very good quality and it was a half price deal so it was very cheap.
The sales assistants in there were very, very good and we are going there for a look on Friday to replace our grim, grim kitchen. I'd def recommend at least a look in there because they have great deals from time to time.
I think they have a scheme where they employ older and more knowledgeable people in their stores so you get decent advice from people who give a shit.
The sales assistants in there were very, very good and we are going there for a look on Friday to replace our grim, grim kitchen. I'd def recommend at least a look in there because they have great deals from time to time.
I think they have a scheme where they employ older and more knowledgeable people in their stores so you get decent advice from people who give a shit.
Errol's son
Well-Known Member
I think what Pembroke Stephen says is good advice.
Get the kitchen from Ikea and maybe the worktop. Ebay is the other good source, particularly for high-end stuff.
Use (or get someone to use) an SDS hammer action drill to fix to your reinforced concrete walls.
Getting the worktops to look neat is the biggest challenge you are then likely to face.
Get the kitchen from Ikea and maybe the worktop. Ebay is the other good source, particularly for high-end stuff.
Use (or get someone to use) an SDS hammer action drill to fix to your reinforced concrete walls.
Getting the worktops to look neat is the biggest challenge you are then likely to face.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Just did my kitchen myself, it fucking rocks.
Let me know if you need a hand with anything, I did all the electrics myself too (got them checked as is the law but there was fuck all wrong with anything).
The worktop needs to be cut with a tungsten blade - better off paying a bloke 200 quid to do the cuts with a calibrated mitre saw.
Worktops are the most expensive bit of doing up a kitchen.
Let me know if you need a hand with anything, I did all the electrics myself too (got them checked as is the law but there was fuck all wrong with anything).
The worktop needs to be cut with a tungsten blade - better off paying a bloke 200 quid to do the cuts with a calibrated mitre saw.
Worktops are the most expensive bit of doing up a kitchen.
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