Help! A rat is getting in my compost

[Placid Casual27]

Any more experienced gardeners out there who can help me on this one?

I have been in my current house 4.5 years and have always had a compost bin. Over the last week is the first time (that I know of!) that I have a problem. It looks as though a creature (I assume a rat as its tunnel is about the thickness of my arm) has burrowed under the fance from next door and into my bin, leaving a hole in the compost. Mind you it may not be the first time as when I looked closely it looks like a lot of compost is outside the bin (behind it) so may have been dragged out by whatever it is.

I used patio slabs to block the hole it made under the fence but predictably enough it burrowed back under those slabs. I never put any cooked food in there, I stick to fruit, veg peelings etc (and eggshells and card, shredded paper etc)

Is this terminally bad news for my compost? How should I deal with the rat(s)? Should I get the council round or is that a waste of time? Should I put poison down? I don't really want to do that, but I do want to get rid of the problem. I was planning to move the compost bin (as it is ready to be used) - can it still be used or will it be poisonous now? We have two kids and next door has a dog, and I don't want any of them keeling over!

I really hope someone can help, I can imagine it is a common problem.

Shall I just give up pleasesayno.

Thanks
PC

 

[jimadore]

move the compost use the compost ,leave no food around ,result no rat and cement the holes rats are only after easy food.

 

[se5]

Get a cat?

Out of interest why is it a problem? rats and mice are never very far away and virtually impossible to keep out of an area. As far as I know they dont impact on compost making .

I guess you could regularly turn the compost (as you should do anyway) if you are worried about them nesting in the heap

 

[alicerosee]

The brilliant London Community Recycling Network (http://www.lcrn.org.uk/page/438) says the following in its answers to common problems section:
4. I have mice or rats living in and around my compost bin.
These are often attracted by fish/meat/bread/dairy products in the heap so your bin should be fine as long as you don't put them in there. However, it may be a more common occurrence if the property is located near canals or train tracks. One solution is to place the compost bin on an oversized piece of close gauge chicken wire and then draw the edges up around the sides of the bin thereby wrapping up the bin while still allowing access to creatures small enough to go through the gaps in the wire.

p.s. Placid Casual27 make me a coffee would ya?

 

[gentlegreen]

I would see rats as macro decomposers in my heap - though if where you live is anything like where I do, I bet they're just kipping in there and nipping out for decent food off the street.

There's practically nothing you can't compost.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

My mum has a compost in her allotment and she occasionally finds rats in there. They are certainly not attracted to food scraps as she doesn't put any in there - I would imagine that they like the warmth that a compost heap emits. I wouldn't worry about it as they move off over their own accord - presumably you'll be using the compost soon anyway?

 

[Gavin Bl]

I gave my compost heap a total drenching and a good thorough bayonetting with a 'pointy stick' on 3-4 days running, and that seemed to work.

The lady from the council called compsost heaps 'rat hotels'. She said not to worry about contamination, as its all decomposing anyway - hey, its a compost heap.

 

[jusali]

Interesting. I found a rat in my compost bin the other day, well it jumped over my foot to get a way at least. I just presumed it was in there for the warmth that it emits. It seems I'm not far wrong.

 

[berniedicters]

move the compost use the compost ,leave no food around ,result no rat and cement the holes rats are only after easy food.

Are you at all familiar with the concept of composting, jimadore?

To the OP - I think the only way around the rat problem (the only way I've found, at least) was to make sure you're using a bin that is itself rat-proof, and then lay slabs around it, to a distance of (say) a foot. I'd be surprised if any rat is likely to be bothered to try and dig that distance to get inside. Certainly, since I did this around my heaps, I've not seen any evidence of ratty habitation.

Beyond that, yes, disturbing the compost on a regular basis will probably help give your unwanted guest the message that his presence isn't required.

One solution is to place the compost bin on an oversized piece of close gauge chicken wire and then draw the edges up around the sides of the bin thereby wrapping up the bin while still allowing access to creatures small enough to go through the gaps in the wire.

Aha, now that's an excellent idea! I wish I'd thought of that before I set up the heaps. Perhaps I'll redo them in the spring and do that, too...

 

[ill-informed]

we get mice in ours, but the cat keeps their numbers down so i don't worry about it.

our compost bin in scotland had pine martins in it.

 

[Funky_monks]

Rats?

These are your answer.

Either that, or I use Fenn Mk4s quite a lot.

Terriers are more fun though.

 

[redsnapper]

There's practically nothing you can't compost.

Whilst this is true there are quite a few things you shouldn't put in a compost heap because if you do it'll attract vermin. You also should never put human, cat or dog faeces in household compost. They all contain pathogens, microbes that are dangerous to humans.

 

[gentlegreen]

Whilst this is true there are quite a few things you shouldn't put in a compost heap because if you do it'll attract vermin.

bollocks.

You also should never put human, cat or dog faeces in household compost. They all contain pathogens, microbes that are dangerous to humans.

Poo needs composting seperately - something I won't be in a position to do for 10 years though.
I certainly hope to be composting straw with my urine - that's a doddle.

 

[redsnapper]

bollocks.

No it's not bollocks at all. You start throwing chicken carcasses or meat scraps on your compost you'll soon know what I'm talking about.

 

[redsnapper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bloom/actions/composting.shtml

Do compost
Fruit and veg
Tea bags and coffee grounds
Crushed egg shells
Grass cuttings, leaves
Shredded paper and soft cardboard
Human and animal hair
Vacuum dust (only from woollen carpets)


Don't compost
Cat or dog excrement - contain dangerous organisms that won't be killed by the decomposition process.
Meat - attracts vermin and flies - unless you're using a Bokashi system.
Dairy produce - attracts vermin and flies.
Fish - attracts vermin and flies.
Disposable nappies - attract vermin and flies.
Shiny card - because of the chemicals used in the printing process.

 

[berniedicters]

Whilst this is true there are quite a few things you shouldn't put in a compost heap because if you do it'll attract vermin. You also should never put human, cat or dog faeces in household compost. They all contain pathogens, microbes that are dangerous to humans.

True. Even those things can be composted provided you're operating a compost heap that is guaranteed to reach the temperatures necessary to pasteurise the material and kill off the naughty pathogens. It's do-able - see "composting toilets" - but best done properly.

 

[gentlegreen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bloom/actions/composting.shtml

Do compost

Don't compost

My last g/f would bite my head off if I put so much as a bit of toast in her bin, and many times I've heard these lists extended to cooked veggies.

I've never had any animal carcasses to test it with, but I've put fish heads and guts in mine. (and I live in an area where you see the odd rat.)
I had a small nest under a pile of rubble in the garden once.

It stands to reason that animals will nest in such places .. adders and hedgehogs ... and rats.

 

[redsnapper]

True. Even those things can be composted provided you're operating a compost heap that is guaranteed to reach the temperatures necessary to pasteurise the material and kill off the naughty pathogens. It's do-able - see "composting toilets" - but best done properly.

Yes I'm aware of that and should have made that clear. You made your point a lot better than gentlegreen's meagre reply of "bollocks" earlier. Your average man in the street though finds it hard enough getting a regualr compost heap together never mind putting more advanced composting techniques into practice. The 'do compost this/don't compost that' list is good advice for regular compost heaps.

 

[berniedicters]

Yes I'm aware of that and should have made that clear. You made your point a lot better than gentlegreen's meagre reply of "bollocks" earlier. Your average man in the street though finds it hard enough getting a regualr compost heap together never mind putting more advanced composting techniques into practice. The 'do compost this/don't compost that' list is good advice for regular compost heaps.

Yep. It's probably as well that the advice is kept fairly simple, as my experience is that lots of people are terribly fazed by composting - the general perception seems to be that it smells, is untidy, and attracts vermin, all of which don't need to be true with a few simple precautions (like, as you say, being careful what you put in). But it's also important, I think, to maintain the awareness that the advice is just that - a few simple shortcuts to keep the process straightforward, and not necessarily set in stone.

With a decent heap that's reasonably well managed, I'd say that there is no harm in composting a certain (smallish) amount of dairy, and cooked stuff: personally, I'd always avoid putting meat, shit, or any kind of diseased or infected (eg rose cuttings with "spot") onto a general purpose heap, just because the effort required in managing a heap that will operate to the temperatures required to make them safe is more than I can be bothered with.

I'd also advise people to run two heaps - put everything into Heap No 1, then fairly regularly transfer the composted material (ideally, via a pretty coarse-meshed garden sieve) into the second, for conditioning. The stuff that doesn't make it through the sieve goes back into the top of Heap 1, where it performs the dual role of a) getting to go through the process again, and b) bringing some of the nice biological stuff from the bottom into the top. By and large, I don't bother turning the heap very much beyond getting into the top and giving the upper layers a good stir around with a garden fork.

 

[gentlegreen]

I've never actually made "compost" per se as I'm not currently actively gardening - so the only bulk material that goes in is empty bog rolls and tissues.
I simply chuck everything into a plastic compost bin and allow every kind of wildlife to eat it and allow residual juices to go into the ground. In my case it's simply a way to keep my rubbish to a minimum and ensure that my local ecosystem gets the benefit. I haven't emptied it for years and it's never more than 3/4 full....

 

[berniedicters]

I've never actually made "compost" per se as I'm not currently actively gardening - so the only bulk material that goes in is empty bog rolls and tissues.
I simply chuck everything into a plastic compost bin and allow every kind of wildlife to eat it and allow residual juices to go into the ground. In my case it's simply a way to keep my rubbish to a minimum and ensure that my local ecosystem gets the benefit. I haven't emptied it for years and it's never more than 3/4 full....

I reckon to produce about a cubic metre or so a year (that's the size of my conditioning heap), but that's rising year-on-year. I have to admit that I am getting close to running out of places to put it all! Some goes in, along with potting compost, to hanging baskets, but that goes back through the heap at the end of the year. Lots goes into the vegetable patch, but I am starting to think I may use some to top-dress the lawn, too.

Mine gets all of the compostable kitchen waste, plus newspaper as needed to maintain a reasonable level of moisture, grass cuttings, garden waste, spent grain from brewing, yeast residue (the slugs love that!). And any rats that may get in and quietly die in the bottom somewhere, just to keep this post on-topic

 

[gentlegreen]

And any rats that may get in and quietly die in the bottom somewhere, just to keep this post on-topic

I must have put in 20 dead mice over the past few winters.
(they were living in my house)

 

[Funky_monks]

I sling owt that is organic matter in mine - apart from human or dog crap.

I put on chicken manure and the shavings though, plus meat scraps, bones, etc. I compost in two 'bays' constructed from palletes.

I get the odd rat - but theres rats about on the farm anyway. Its just an easy one for the dawgs - and then its carcass goes on the compost.

 

[gentlegreen]

I sling owt that is organic matter in mine - apart from human or dog crap.

 

[redsnapper]

My compost bays are about 4 foot square and about 4 foot deep. The walls are made from turfs from the area of lawn I cleared to make the veg patch. I've got 2 bays and get loads of compost from them. I'm gonna dig one of them out today. Never get rats in them though and even if I was of a mind to throw meat into the compost it wouldn't happen cos I don't really eat any, I'm not strictly veggie i just don't buy meat.

 

[Funky_monks]

Y......... as my experience is that lots of people are terribly fazed by composting - the general perception seems to be that it smells, is untidy, and attracts vermin, all of which don't need to be true with a few simple precautions ..............

Which is odd, cos rats are everywhere.

 

[komodo]

rats love to live in compost bins and will do so regardless of what you put in the compost! Living in the compost is different to eating it! We now use chicken wire on our 3 bins with success!

 

[berniedicters]

Which is odd, cos rats are everywhere.

rats love to live in compost bins and will do so regardless of what you put in the compost! Living in the compost is different to eating it! We now use chicken wire on our 3 bins with success!

True to both. We didn't have compost heaps here before I came, but I know that there were still rats living up by the side of the shed. It's just that I, conveniently for them, built a luxury high-rise development with all mod cons which upwardly-mobile rats could aspire to...and did