"Healthcare" in the US

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Yuwipi Woman, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

  2. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
    a_chap likes this.
  3. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    From Shitebook

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. CrabbedOne

    CrabbedOne Walking sideways snippily

    Interesting little report.

    On Bloomberg The U.S. Falls in a Global Retirement Security Ranking
    With Trump in office that's not going to improve. I think no other developed country tolerates as much price gouging by providers as the US.

    Summary table from the report:
    Screen Shot 2017-07-19 at 11.23.55.png
    Not sure about the validity of some of these metrics but:
    I notice the UK (perhaps because of the skinflint NHS) actually did worse than the US on that but note the statement in the first snip. Both outperformed by Switzerland a country with universal healthcare and a chaotic tangle of for profit insurance companies and France which isn't much better. Both I'd say have better basic healthcare than the US or UK but have systems that are in danger of going bust despite levels of state intervention that probably are not thinkable in US politics.
     
  5. CrabbedOne

    CrabbedOne Walking sideways snippily

    On Vox Trump can’t make a health care deal because he doesn’t understand health care
    In which Trump's performance is contrasted with the careful process of deliberation with which Obama pushed out the AHCA. A risky compromise bill a lot liberal Dems were Luke warm on. Though Trump like a lot of businessmen has often made seat of the pants deals without being properly briefed. His failed Casino business is a good example but I'm sure there are examples where luck has been with him.

    The donnish Obama perhaps wasn't really that good at this. A major flaw was the overly complex product was conceived to sell to moderate Republicans (a soon to extinct species) but not to the wider public as expanding the well established brands of Medicare and Medicaid might have been. Obama wasn't a wily Hill player like LBJ and disdained getting his hands dirty but Trump doesn't even seem willing to try to understand the problems of US healthcare. He's not alone the Dems in CA were trying to pass a complete shambles of legislation to promote state wide universal healthcare. Little more than an air headed progressive wish list with the unattractive label Single Payer slapped on it. Dems also failed with this in tiny Vermont a while ago. Snarled up on all the details. Yet it's probably going to be a major plank of future campaigns and perhaps another failed presidency.

    It's a pity the Donnish Obama and Dems lacking intestinal fortitude didn't go onto hard sell Obamacare to the US public. GOP attack dogs leapt on it very effectively and systematically undermined it while liberals grumbled. It did provide considerable benefits to a broad constituency of Americans. It's only ever had one effective promoter and that's the incredibly unpopular dumpster fire of Trumpcare.
     
  6. spring-peeper

    spring-peeper Well-Known Member

    Of Course The GOP Women Who Opposed ACA Repeal Are Facing A Sexist Backlash

    *sigh*
     
    Yuwipi Woman likes this.
  7. spring-peeper

    spring-peeper Well-Known Member

    A free health care site was set up and it was very well attended.

    ‘I’m all in’: Americans in need of free health care sticking with Trump
     
  8. CrabbedOne

    CrabbedOne Walking sideways snippily

    That goodhearted guy seems far more interested in elite tax cuts and golf than this stuff.
     
  9. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    This is bullshit, you do know that, right?
     
  10. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

  11. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    In what way?
     
    NoXion likes this.
  12. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    It smells like roses and cinnamon buns to me.
     
  13. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Democrat presidents since Harry Truman have tried to get some form of universal health care through, and have been blocked at every turn by the GOP, the AMA and other health care industry lobbyists, who've also succeeded in galvanising many Americans against the idea, too.

    Truman proposed a national health insurance system at the tail end of WWII, about the same time the NHS was being mooted in Britain. The AMA (it's like the BMA) pumped squillions into campaigns against it. Lobbyists harnessed the atmosphere of fear in the Cold War to insist "socialised medicine" was just a step away from full communism. In the mid 60's, Johnson managed to push through Medicare and Medicaid, but it was a hard battle to get care even for older people and the poorest. "Single payer" wouldn't have got out of the starting gate then. Next up was Carter, who tried to build on the existing Medicare infrastructure to make it universal, but the GOP and lobbyists blocked that, too.

    Then came the Clinton Health care plan in the 90's, mandating insurance coverage but yes, involving existing health insurance and health care providers, in the hope that maybe that would get through as a step to universal. Nope. The Obama administration also ended up with a watered down ACA due to amendments tabled by the GOP. It was a fudge the Democrats hoped to get through with bipartisan support, but after making a mess of it, the Republicans took their toys and left.

    So, having a "tangled web of private insurance companies" handle healthcare has never been the choice of Democrats. Perhaps they made the mistake of thinking the GOP might, in good faith, at least come on board with something that answered their "concerns," but they got shafted by them every time. They wanted to at least get a toe in the door with the hope of widening that. But, every time the Republicans held the White House and/or congress, they hacked away at whatever the Democrats had achieved, including Medicare and Medicaid. Now, they're determined not just to abolish the ACA, but to undermine Medicare and Medicaid.

    Also, don't underestimate the fear of anything that has the faintest whiff of "communism" among many people in the US, (Russia is okay now because they gave up communism :rolleyes:.)

    Also, many Americans DO have experience of the one "single payer" system - the Veterans Administration, which is a nightmare of bureaucracy, inefficiency and often poor standards. When lobbyists keep telling them "single payer" will be like that but far worse, people aren't keen.

    And, there's still the "me and mine" foundation of the American Dream. It's the "why should I pay for something I don't benefit from?" attitude that the Trump administration has capitalised on so effectively.

    tl;dr

    Democrats have tried for single payer, only compromised in hopes of getting there in stages. GOP have blocked and undermined at every turn.
     
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  14. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    It looks like the Trump administration is doing what we expected. They're doing everything they can to ensure that Obamacare fails:


    Trump administration ends Affordable Care Act assistance contracts in 18 cities

    This is probably the first of these actions. There's an insurance support payment for Medicaid that's expected to be made later this week. They can pretty much kill Obamacare by ending all payments to support it.
     
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  15. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Yup, and all the while brainwashing the masses that the ACA is failing because it's crap, not because his administration and congress are strangling it. :(
     
    Yuwipi Woman likes this.
  16. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    TBH, the ACA is kinda crap, but its not failing. It's just a patch on a bad system that's been fucking up for a long while. People tend to quickly forget how nasty it was before the ACA. My company had multiple years of back-to-back premium increases of 80%. We ended up with $7,500 deductibles, after our employer had already kicked in $900 per month premiums for a single employee and the employees kicked in another $110. Obamacare, made it possible to lower our deductibles down to a more manageable $3,500. Without Obamacare, I think our employer would have stopped providing health insurance. They may yet.
     
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  17. CrabbedOne

    CrabbedOne Walking sideways snippily

    On TAC The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare
    Makes the rational argument for a universal US healthcare system. I'm not seeing much chance of this myself but it's an interesting idea that the GOP might come round to this. At the moment an awful lot of Republican politicians seem to have problems even with risk pooling for healthcare. Apart from a horror of Big Government a basic GOP problem is "Single Payer" like Obamacare is a Dem thing and so marked by Satan.
     
  18. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    Republican Congressman Would Totes Duel With These GOP Lady Senators if They Weren’t Ladies

    That lump couldn't shoot out a decent turd.
     
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  19. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

  20. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    Apparently we shouldn't criticise John McCain for his heroic dedication in flying back from brain cancer treatment to deny other people brain cancer treatment (or anything else).

     
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  21. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator



    Fuck off, Bernie.
     
  22. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    When Health Law Isn’t Enough, the Desperate Line Up at Tents

    :(
     
  23. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    Dear McCain, My Mother Had The Same Brain Tumor You Have | HuffPost

    Yes, she probably would have died even with treatment, but the average survival is about a year and half. She had six months. So not having insurance, probably cost her a year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
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  24. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    but I'm sure there are examples where luck has been with him.
    Luck! Or as it increasingly seems lottsa russian money.
    Can't understand Americans simmering hatred of 'single payer' or as most would call it, universal health coverage.
    Why is it always portrayed as a 'commie or socialist plot'?
    Bugger, I'm starting to believe the stereotype 'most Americans are as thick as pigshit'
     
  25. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    What is all this "deductibles"
     
  26. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    Obvious to those with half a brain, but TTTS base? What can you say? What can you do?
    While I feel sorry for them, they choose to use Breibart and Fox News and the likes of the National enquirer for their understanding of what's going on.
    I've never seen a more self destructive group of people, as long as TTT seems to be sticking it to 'them lubbberils' they are seemingly happy!
    Gun rights, tolerance of racism, Anti abortion and anti women's rights and yet they perceive fundamental Islam as their 'main enemy'
    Couldn't make it up!
     
  27. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    Think "policy excess"
     
  28. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Tragic Results When Dental Care Is Out Of Reach
    Same as "excess" - the sum you have to pay before insurance starts to pay.

    See this post for a bit of the background.
     
  29. Nylock

    Nylock I hate 'these days'...

    I was thinking that was the case but was reluctant to say as the US health insurance system seems fiendishly complicated...
     
  30. Yuwipi Woman

    Yuwipi Woman Whack-A-Mole Queen

    That's the amount of money you have to spend before the insurance will pay anything. So in our case, before the insurance company has paid for a single aspirin, my employer and I have shelled out a total of $15,620. If you have a major illness that spans several years, you can end up paying that deductible every year you are sick.

    The reason its so expensive is that we have to pay for CEOs to live in places like this:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017

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