Having to travel an hour and half to work

[Mrs Magpie]

When I was spending the best part of five hours a day getting to and from work I read loads of books. I have a very short commute now and I do miss being able to immerse myself in a book a little. The time I have gained tends to be spent busying myself elsewhere, whereas there's not a lot you can do sitting on public transport.

 

[Isambard]

Actually I'll "admit" I'm annoyed sometimes my 20 minute commute on the bus is too short for me to read properly.

One thing I've noticed recently about people working is that they are almost permenantly tired. Either due to long commutes or very heavy schedules meaning less sleep.

 

[Wookey]

To be honest I was really annoyed by the OP. I also think there's a fundamental different in mindset. Although my family has had situations such as very long commuting times, lack of employment choices, very few holidays over the last few decades and until about six years ago, very substandard* but relatively expensive housing costs, we are basically a jolly bunch. We don't often sit around woe is me-ing and have a happy life. We have good friends and are part of a good community. Our house is full of love and laughter. I think contentment comes with wanting what you have and not forever hankering after something out of reach. I don't want my life to be different. I think there are some people who will forever be discontent and whatever they have they will never find life fulfilling.

* GDBA wouldn't let my husband have a guide dog because our flat wasn't good enough and we had to wait five years to be rehoused until our housing was deemed fit enough for a dog.

I wouldn't disagree with your basic philosophy in the slightest, it's exactly what makes me the calm and contented chappy you see before you!

That said, I don't think the OP was hankering after something external that he couldn't have - he was rejecting something that someone else was imposing on him from without.

If we accept your assertion that we should be happy with what we've got (and I personally do, my glass is half full, etc) then that starts with refusing to accept things you know full well you won't be happy with - like a 3hour commute to work and back everyday.

Saying that other people have worse is no reply, imo. I know I could not sit on a bus for three hours out of every waking 14 hours. It would drive me to distraction with the potential for everything else I could be doing that isn't sitting there. So I won't do it, and I wouldn't blame anyone else for refusing to do it either, when there is no need.

And saying you can read on the bus is all very well, but that is still making the best out of a bad situation - rather than creating a 'good' situation that you have engineered from scratch yourself. Which would be the ideal, wouldn't it~?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Wookey, I have turned down agency work that's too far away when other work was available so I did have a bit of choice but the five hour a day commute was an emergency situation for half a school term only and my agency paid my travel expenses.

...as for the OP, I think I am on safe ground in thinking Shevek is a pessimist. I haven't read all his threads because they don't fill me with unbridled joy.

 

[Isambard]

Whether agency or full employee, I've always had an employer contribution to my commuting expenses. But that is something I've noticed is not getting offered as much these days, particuarly to newer junior staff who need it more.

 

[Wookey]

Wookey, I have turned down agency work that's too far away when other work was available so I did have a bit of choice but the five hour a day commute was an emergency situation for half a school term only and my agency paid my travel expenses.

...as for the OP, I think I am on safe ground in thinking Shevek is a pessimist. I haven't read all his threads because they don't fill me with unbridled joy.

Ah, I haven't read much of his work, so I'll defer!

I'm reminded of when I got my third term PGCE placement, in a town up in the hills of Lancashire. It would have meant three bus journeys every morning, and three every evening, on unreliable buses, starting at 5:30am for a 9am class.

I stopped doing the PGCE, because that kind of demand made me realise I really didn't want to be a teacher THAT badly!

Now imagine instead of having a choice, you were dealing with a government department who can, in theory, force you into that position with the threat of withdrawing your benefits.

That loss of control and sense of coercion is what makes humans unhappy, not feeling as though there is a choice anymore. I relate to that, and I think the OP isn't unreasonable to feel resentful.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Wookey, I have turned down agency work that's too far away when other work was available so I did have a bit of choice but the five hour a day commute was an emergency situation for half a school term only and my agency paid my travel expenses.

Obviously a slightly different situation if it is only for 6 weeks or so.

Where on earth were you working that took 2.5 hours each way from Brixton? Somewhere outside London surely?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

No, inside London. Tube, Jubilee line then 2 buses. Only way of getting there. London is huge.

 

[Wookey]

London is huge.

...she explained.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

LOL

 

[Pingu]

Yeah I suppose from that point of view Mrs Magpie I am very lucky. Its just if I do get a shitty job I want to be able to pay large chunks off my overdraft quite quickly (and also replace some of my clothes which have all gone to threads). It seems a bit pointless commuting to Liverpool everyday and spending £50 a week or £200 a month on train fares.

welcome to the big wide world outside of uni...


loads of people travel into manchester each day from liverpool and further.

thread has moved on a bit since this bit but hey wtf i am just going to wade in.

i am guessing life is going to hold some other large disappointments for you too.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

w

i am guessing life is going to hold some other large disappointments for you too.

Well of course it is, just as it has for me, and you, and Ma Magpie and Editor and everbody bloody well else.

Your point is?

 

[Wookey]

loads of people travel into manchester each day from liverpool and further.

Is this ideal for them though? Would they choose it in a perfect world? Do they love the motorway or the train that much?

I reckon not.

 

[Pingu]

point is pretty much what quoad said tbh

i just have a thing about people who whinge and whine about shit because its all just so unfair...

thats life, its not going to get any better

loads of people travel into manchester each day from liverpool and further.

QUOTE]

Is this ideal for them though? Would they choose it in a perfect world? Do they love the motorway or the train that much?

I reckon not.

no, I dont like the 600-1000 miles i tend to do every other week but i do it - mainly cos i get well paid for doing it but cos cos its part of my job. i am sure we would all like to work 2 minutes walk from where we live but thats not the reality if life. esp atm, you take what you can and then look for what you want

 

[Wookey]

i just have a thing about people who whinge and whine about shit because its all just so unfair...

thats life, its not going to get any better

I find that dead depressing as an outlook on life, and it's the same idea that has kept poor people "satisfied" with their lot for eons.

Fact is, life does get better, and it has got immeasurably better for most people here in the UK over the last century. That didn't happen by people being defeatist and not moaning - it happened because people moaned, and changed things so they didn't have to moan anymore, imo.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

you take what you can and then look for what you want

There is obviously something in that. But I do think a maximum of an hour each way is a reasonable commute time when job seeking. Especially if you are not being too choosy about what you do.

I'm not actually sympathising with the OP, because he/she doesn't actually require sympathy, they are not actually in a position of having their benefits stopped. What I am doing, for reasons I've gone into in some detail, and so won't repeat, is critquing this government policy, which I think is wrong.

My advice would be 'do everything you can to look for work within an hour of home'. If you are doing that, it is most unlikely your benefits will be stopped. Keep copies of letters you send, letters you get back, notes from phone calls. Keep em in a folder, which you can put on the desk at the next review.

Don't try and argue the toss over the 1.5 hour policy, just nod and smile sweetly when it is explained. The average advisor isn't going to have a clue where you can get to on public transport within 1.5 hours of home- I wouldn't without some serious anoraking..... If you live in central Manchester, and can prove you've applied for the odd job on the Manchester fringe, you'll be more than in the clear


And to cheer you up (don't take this too seriously!)

 

[_angel_]

no, I dont like the 600-1000 miles i tend to do every other week but i do it - mainly cos i get well paid for doing it but cos cos its part of my job. i am sure we would all like to work 2 minutes walk from where we live but thats not the reality if life. esp atm, you take what you can and then look for what you want

To be fair, nobodies quibbling with the idea of people who are being paid to do a commute, doing it, pain in the arse though it may be. I know someone who is going Kirkby- Manc every day, but because he applied for a job he wants to do and is paid enough to do it -- the OP was specifically talking about being made to commute that length on public transport to do a minimum wage job, which sounded totally unfeasable, then a load of people jumped on him to "stop moaning" - did I miss something? How can someone still eat and pay the rent if they're paying out most of their wage on transport?

 

[tarannau]

To be honest, that seems a naive interpretation Wookey.

Yes, out standard of living's largely improved, but that's because we now outsource many of our labour intensive, unpleasant tasks to the developing world. And that's after years of exploiting other colonies nations to benefit our nation's wealth.

Unfortunately, or fairly depending on your point of view, things are going to equalise and the UK can't expect to be immune. This idea that we can choose to work in our local mill/factory/farm close to home and keep the low prices we're accustomed to seems pie in the sky frankly. Much of my immediate family have travelled huge distances to work and ensure a decent life for their families - me moaning about a comparatively comfortable journey on public transport seems pathetic in comparison,

 

[_angel_]

To be honest, that seems a naive interpretation Wookey.

Yes, out standard of living's largely improved, but that's because we now outsource many of our labour intensive, unpleasant tasks to the developing world. And that's after years of exploiting other colonies nations to benefit our nation's wealth.

Unfortunately, or fairly depending on your point of view, things are going to equalise and the UK can't expect to be immune. This idea that we can choose to work in our local mill/factory/farm close to home and keep the low prices we're accustomed to seems pie in the sky frankly. Much of my immediate family have travelled huge distances to work and ensure a decent life for their families - me moaning about a comparatively comfortable journey on public transport seems pathetic in comparison,

You can't really whinge when people have to travel miles and miles in cars and pollute the planet then. Because like it or not *outside London* cars are cheaper and quicker to get about and sometimes the only way.

No one's explained how someone pays a £20 fare to another city every day and lives on about £30 a day wage though.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

a load of people jumped on him to "stop moaning" - did I miss something?

Maybe you missed his previous threads. Shevek makes Eeyore look like Bonnie Langford.

How can someone still eat and pay the rent if they're paying out most of their wage on transport?

Shevek has a partner. I pay the rent and my travel costs which leaves me with less than £40 a week, but my partner earns too and pays the Council tax, leccy, food and puts any spare in our savings.

 

[Wookey]

To be honest, that seems a naive interpretation Wookey.

Yes, out standard of living's largely improved, but that's because we now outsource many of our labour intensive, unpleasant tasks to the developing world. And that's after years of exploiting other colonies nations to benefit our nation's wealth.

Unfortunately, or fairly depending on your point of view, things are going to equalise and the UK can't expect to be immune. This idea that we can choose to work in our local mill/factory/farm close to home and keep the low prices we're accustomed to seems pie in the sky frankly. Much of my immediate family have travelled huge distances to work and ensure a decent life for their families - me moaning about a comparatively comfortable journey on public transport seems pathetic in comparison,

I think the outsourcing idea is very recent - I'm talking about 100 years of labour organisation, that said: "Actually, working in the capitalist system should not have to be this hard..."

Imagine if, when objecting to 18 hour days, no holidays, no child care support, no health and safety law, etc, the response to the objectors was to say: 'It's been worse before, and other people have it worse, so just shut up and put up."

We don't get anywhere by accepting damaging circumstances on a permanent basis - and I think a lot of people would say that three hours a day on a train was damaging to their work/life balance, their family life and their health, tbh.

 

[_angel_]

Maybe you missed his previous threads. Shevek makes Eeyore look like Bonnie Langford.


Shevek has a partner. I pay the rent and my travel costs which leaves me with less than £40 a week, but my partner earns too and pays the Council tax, leccy, food and puts any spare in our savings.

I get the impression that the OP isn't much liked on here and that's the reason for the reaction.

Also, I gather the whole point of the signing on was supposed to be, to not have to live off his partner! So that rather defeats the object if most of the wages are going to be swallowed up in travel costs - doesn't it?

I think it's mental when someone can work fulltime and even live in a council house and only have £30-40 a week left over - I went for a job like that the other week - unless you have a working partner or claiming benefits you can't live... it doesn't make any sense, and people saying "it's the way it is" as if it's somehow okay doesn't help.

 

[_angel_]

I think the outsourcing idea is very recent - I'm talking about 100 years of labour organisation, that said: "Actually, working in the capitalist system should not have to be this hard..."

Imagine if, when objecting to 18 hour days, no holidays, no child care support, no health and safety law, etc, the response to the objectors was to say: 'It's been worse before, and other people have it worse, so just shut up and put up."

We don't get anywhere by accepting damaging circumstances on a permanent basis - and I think a lot of people would say that three hours a day on a train was damaging to their work/life balance, their family life and their health, tbh.

It seems a lot of people think you shouldn't complain unless you're actually starving!

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Shevek isn't this boards most unpopular poster by a very long chalk. He just needs a bit of a boot up the backside and to stop feeling so sorry for himself.

I am lucky in that I love my job, it's useful to the wider world and although it's tiring it's very satifying and I'd definitely rather work, even for not much money than stay at home all day. Also Shevek has not got a bulging CV yet. Once he's got a bit of experience he can look for better paid work. He's got a degree so his prospects are definitely better than mine were as I left home & school at 16. It's just about doing the best you can in the circumstances and getting on with it.

 

[_angel_]

Shevek isn't this boards most unpopular poster by a very long chalk. He just needs a bit of a boot up the backside and to stop feeling so sorry for himself.

I am lucky in that I love my job, it's useful to the wider world and although it's tiring it's very satifying and I'd definitely rather work, even for not much money than stay at home all day. Also Shevek has not got a bulging CV yet. Once he's got a bit of experience he can look for better paid work. He's got a degree so his prospects are definitely better than mine were as I left home & school at 16. It's just about doing the best you can in the circumstances and getting on with it.

Although I can understand the point about getting experience, what is frustrating me is the automatic assumption that things "must" be easier for people today just because it is today.

When my parents went to college, they didn't leave with huge debts and had jobs they could get almost immediately - things aren't like that these days - people leave with huge debts and can't get work.

Whereas I don't think anyone should expect to walk into a "good" job because they're a graduate, if someone can't afford to travel to take a low paid job, they can't afford it - end of. Having a degree doesn't seem to mean anything like what you think it does (priviledge etc - it just means you got into debt) Sorry, but people don't seem to realise that the days of leaving school at 16 with no qualifications and "working your way up" have gone now.

We're getting an attitude on here that's really a tory attitude of "being grateful" to be able to still eat which is just ridiculous - things are meant to get better aren't they?

The fact is, actually, some of these jobs don't pay enough to eat, not everyone has a partner to support them and that's the whole point people seem to be deliberately missing.

 

[tarannau]

When my parents went to college, they didn't leave with huge debts and had jobs they could get almost immediately - things aren't like that these days - people leave with huge debts and can't get work...

The fact is, actually, some of these jobs don't pay enough to eat, not everyone has a partner to support them and that's the whole point people seem to be deliberately missing.

Many of my parents generation would never have had the chance to go into higher education, so in some ways some form of progress has been made. My father's career (waiting in Park Lane hotels) ended after 25 years loyal service on a pitiful wage.

And I suspect that, despite your negativity, there are people willing to work and surviving for amounts that you consider insufficient. Nobody's pretending it's a pleasant experience, but then some don't have the option of JSA.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Well, if taking home £200 a week in your fifties is working your way up, I daresay I have. Also this isn't about tory politics, it's more that Shevek needs to change his mindset and stop being so miserable and start living. It's not too late, he's still young, the world is his oyster if only he'd stop gazing sadly at his navel.

 

[_angel_]

Many of my parents generation would never have had the chance to go into higher education, so in some ways some form of progress has been made. My father's career (waiting in Park Lane hotels) ended after 25 years loyal service on a pitiful wage.

And I suspect that, despite your negativity, there are people willing to work and surviving for amounts that you consider insufficient. Nobody's pretending it's a pleasant experience, but then some don't have the option of JSA.

Y'see yes - it's terrible that people didn't have the option of JSA - but what some posters seem to be advocating is going back to those days.

I have a council house rent and if I can't live on £170 a week without claiming extra benefits, it's hard to see who can. (This was the fulltime job I was looking at, anyway)

Why are you advocating that people should live on less money than rents actually cost anyway?

Could you live on £170 a week without a partners support? What is the average rent around where you live?

It's not " negativity" but the sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the fact that people are now paid less than it costs to cover even a housing association rent and still eat that is fucking mental. Why send out the message this is alright?

 

[_angel_]

Well, if taking home £200 a week in your fifties is working your way up, I daresay I have. Also this isn't about tory politics, it's more that Shevek needs to change his mindset and stop being so miserable and start living. It's not too late, he's still young, the world is his oyster if only he'd stop gazing sadly at his navel.

Maybe he does, but I am just trying to point out that people doing jobs like you are (teaching assistant etc) are being paid so shittily that you can't even afford to support yourself without another person's wages coming in. Never mind adding on the potential for travel costs. How would you cope if you were on your own?

 

[Pip]

I have a council house rent and if I can't live on £170 a week without It's not " negativity" but the sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the fact that people are now paid less than it costs to cover even a housing association rent and still eat that is fucking mental. Why send out the message this is alright?

It's not alright at all, but the subtext of some posts is, I dunno? Disbelief and scepticism that some people live on literally fuck all. I used the example of surviving on an overdraft (as many people do) not to suggest that it's okay and Shevek (or whoever) should do that and be happy, but more to draw attention to the notion that an awful lot of people are in his position or worse off.