Have you seen Maggie Thatcher in the flesh?

[guinnessdrinker]

in a bikini, on a car... shudder

aargh! this should be punished by life imprisonment with other sexual offenders!

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Yes, I have had the pleasure and privelege of meeting her. It was outside her house in Flood Street in Chelsea the night she won her first election victory. A charming and gracious lady.

enemy of the people first against the wall come the revolution!

 

[Roadkill]

Yes, I have had the pleasure and privelege of meeting her. It was outside her house in Flood Street in Chelsea the night she won her first election victory. A charming and gracious lady.

Most people can seem charming and gracious after they've had half a bottle of single malt.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Good for them. Who'd turn their nose up at the chance of overtime? They must have loved it.

What a bright boy. Posts the same comment twice and it's not even a duplicate post.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Most people can seem charming and gracious after they've had half a bottle of single malt.

I've heard that the raddled old meatsack has so little shame that she'll even drink Haig (bleurgh!!! ) nowadays.

Hopefully the staff are having it away with the good stuff!

 

[JWH]

we can always prepare a good old riot for you....

Bet you can't.

 

[Sasaferrato]

enemy of the people first against the wall come the revolution!

 

[Sasaferrato]

Most people can seem charming and gracious after they've had half a bottle of single malt.

This is true. I was ( fairly ) sober.

 

[WasGeri]

I think she's an evil old witch but if I saw her I wouldn't 'give her what for' - I'd just ignore her, she's really not worth wasting my time on.

 

[vimto]

Why are you mad ? I didn't say whether I like or dislike her did I ? I lived , worked and payed taxes under her govt..which is more than a lot of people who post here did ! I read lots' of I hate Maggie threads. Sometimes I think people post this type of shit just to get a common response...they kind of expect the sheep to line up to post 'I hate Maggie Thatcher more than you do ' la la la. She's history and now an old woman. Concentrate on the people who run things here and now...or is that a problem ?

Crack a few miners' heads in did you Pig?

 

[vimto]

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't agree.
Old age should not be a refuge for your crimes especially when they amount to those of hers. She'd still get a mouthful from me and I’ll be holding an eighties night round at my gaff the night she's buried. You're all invited.
I went to under resourced schools under that witch, got it in the neck from disaffected teachers, joined her fucking YTS scheme, paid taxes to support her fucking raping of public services, watched riots against her racist storm troopers and have a calcium deficiency from her milk robbing antics.

If it wasn't for Thatcher, just think what you might have become!

 

[Dr Jon]

...So Thatcher's support base was, like exosculate says, less than a third of the potential electorate

Also remember that the Labour party was tearing itself apart in those days, the north/south divide, etc. The queen of darkness kept getting re-elected because of our quirky electoral system...

Could never happen in a proper democracy with PR.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Also remember that the Labour party was tearing itself apart in those days, the north/south divide, etc. The queen of darkness kept getting re-elected because of our quirky electoral system...

Could never happen in a proper democracy with PR.

PR is embraced by losers who can never hope to win enough seats to form a government. The political whores of the Liberal Democrats prop up the Scottish Executive.

 

[Combustible]

First past the post is embraced by losers who can never hope to win enough votes to form a representative government.

Fixed

 

[exosculate]

What a bright boy. Posts the same comment twice and it's not even a duplicate post.

He's probably one of the plod putting in duplicate overtime claims, and still cant get the old duplicate hourly rates (and other things) out of his system.

 

[friedaweed]

If it wasn't for Thatcher, just think what you might have become!

Two sugars Johnny

 

[_angel_]

Can't say I'm pro PR myself as you could end up in a situation like the French did forced to choose between Chirac and Le Penn (ie bad or worse)


Mind you, having said that the choice we have got is also bad or worse.


So I'll shut up now.

Yes, Thatcher is an evil old cow, but I'm not like some that would actually want to dance on her grave.

All that taking tea with general pinochet stuff. Really makes you realise what she was about. Scary.

 

[Phototropic]

PR is embraced by losers who can never hope to win enough seats to form a government.

Imagine a country of million people.

500,001 vote for the the Square Party
499,999 vote for the Circle Party

Square Party becomes the government.

Is that fair? Is that representative?

PR would broaden out politics and hopefully stop the main three fighting over an extremely narrow peice of ground.

But then what would you care your a Tory.

 

[In Bloom]

PR is embraced by losers who can never hope to win enough seats to form a government. The political whores of the Liberal Democrats prop up the Scottish Executive.

So is your argument against PR that:

• it would lead to minority opinions being given an appropriate degree of representation, which is obviously such a terrible idea or;
• parties who benefit from first past the post oppose PR, so it must be a bad idea?

Because thats the closest thing to content that I could find here

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Photo: Poor example, unless you've played with the constituencies ala Mugabe, you'll propbably have an almost equal number of MPs for each party, so if one or two of the Square MPs were to have a moral objection then it's not possible to force through a policy.

PR has some nice pro points, but which countries use it, and how have they found it. Finally, the system we have at the moment may not be perfect, but it's good enough (in my own amateur opinion).

 

[Fruitloop]

I think it's shite.

New Zealand has PR (of sorts) now. It had a few teething troubles but I don't see anyone arguing for a return to FPP.

 

[Phototropic]

Photo: Poor example, unless you've played with the constituencies ala Mugabe, you'll propbably have an almost equal number of MPs for each party, so if one or two of the Square MPs were to have a moral objection then it's not possible to force through a policy.

PR has some nice pro points, but which countries use it, and how have they found it. Finally, the system we have at the moment may not be perfect, but it's good enough (in my own amateur opinion).

Okay then your right it wasn't the best of examples. What I was trying to get at is lets this imaginery country has 50 MPs. All of those MPs would only need 1 vote to win their seat. To me that seems wrong and unfair as it may lead to a vast majority of the population not voting for the one in power.

My main hope with a PR as an improvement on the current system is that it would ened the two horse race we have at the moment and shake the stability of the system.

 

[Ducklin]

A friend saw her at Buck Palace last year at that influential women do. Said she was a shrivelled old bag who no one wanted to talk to. Good.

 

[Fruitloop]

She looks and sounds absolutely fucking bonkers these days. That's why you don't see too much of her on the teevee, or if you do it's an incredibly short clip.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Stability is a good thing, don't knock it. As to the two horse race, meh.

Better two horses than the one availible elsewhere, maybe PR would be better, but i am reluctant to advocate a change in a system that does work on the whole.

I may be confused, hell i am confused over the way elections occur. But in short you have a PR type vote in your constituency, and then the candidate with the highest number of votes is declared the unanimous winner? What is this first past the post thing?

The objection being that many people may want to vote for "fringe" parties, and thier votes are lost in a form of digitsing error?

 

[Fruitloop]

The problem with FPP is if 20% of the people in every consituency vote Green, the Greens win no seats at all, so those people are effectively disenfranchised. In PR, if 20% of the country vote Green then they get 20% of the seats (chosen from party lists).

There are lots of variations on the theme that alllow for some regional considerations to be taken into account as well, but that's the basic idea.

 

[Combustible]

The main trouble with PR is how this list is decided. Could you imagine if Blair could just put who he wants on the list rather than a representative who the people want. The best solution I think would be a PR elected second chamber and try and eliminate the whipping system.

 

[TeeJay]

The main trouble with PR is how this list is decided. Could you imagine if Blair could just put who he wants on the list rather than a representative who the people want. The best solution I think would be a PR elected second chamber and try and eliminate the whipping system.

In the Greens the list is decided by one-member-one-vote (often using some kind of 'numbered preference' system). Hopefully the public will prefer parties that have more internal democracy - or at least activists and party members will (the public might not care that much). Parties will probably face the temptation of putting celebrities high up in their lists, putting their leadership in the top 'safe' seats and otherwise cutting deals with people. For this reason I prefer party lists to be used as a 'top-up' like they are in the London Assembly elections. The problem with having an upper house (lords) that was elected by PR is that it might be seen as having more legitimacy than the commons, but the commons has more power. I'd be more in favour of having a hybrid lower house (seats + top up list), and having a different system for any upper house - I also think there is value in having some appointees to an upper house, as you can get a lot of experienced non-party-politicians, people from a range of professions and parts of the community. Maybe you could also have people elected for a 10 year term but they could only stand once - it would be kind of a 'retirement job' for older politicians, campaigners and other public figures. They wouldn't give a shit abiout annoying the political parties and wouldn't be able to be bribed with job offers or whipped into line.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Imagine a country of million people.

500,001 vote for the the Square Party
499,999 vote for the Circle Party

Square Party becomes the government.

Is that fair? Is that representative?

PR would broaden out politics and hopefully stop the main three fighting over an extremely narrow peice of ground.

But then what would you care your a Tory.

You're.

I fail to see why allegiance to any particular party is relevant to whether you favour PR or not. Scotland is an object lesson as to why it is not a good idea. I would rather have a government that I object to than have the balance of power held by a minority extremist party, would you be so happy with PR if the BNP held the balance in the commons?

The next Scottish Council elections are to be on a PR basis, Labour had to give that in order that the LD whores would support their other legislation. When Labour fail to win a single council outright they may change their view.