Have you ever been a member of the SWP / IS?

[Geri]

from 1977 to 1984 i sold the paper and went to meetings regularly- till i discovered Class War!!

You started selling the paper for them in 1977? What, were you like 10 years old or summat?

 

[audiotech]

Yep - and what happened to most of those who actually pulled their finger out and adopted the tactic?

Well, lots of things as it happens.

The tactic was important at the time. Later, the tactic was dropped due to the importance of broadening the anti-fascist movement. Also, as support for the NF collapsed, with the consequent split into various factions, the tactic was deemed no longer necessary.

Despite these changes, some individuals wanted to continue chasing after the fascists and were promptly expelled from the SWP.

Later, some of those went on to form Red Action, who for some time now have also moved away from confronting fascists and into the electoral arena as the IWCA.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Bit bloody pointless this being an anonymous poll...

 

[emanymton]

I thought that but on the other hand, maybe some people would be reluctant to own up to it if it was public.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yep - and what happened to most of those who actually pulled their finger out and adopted the tactic?

As I remember, in order of occurrence they were sidelined, scapegoated then cast into the outer darkness (if they hadn't already jumped ship).

 

[ViolentPanda]

so you ended up in RA?

Nope, I aligned myself with RA (knew a few people who were involved, new a few who were on the margins), but I never "joined" them. After the swappies I preferred the freedom of not actually having to take a "party line" on anything, of actually just getting out and doing stuff, even the childish stuff like putting up "My name is **** **** and I am a racist" posters on walls and billboards near the homes of NF members.

 

[Roadkill]

Yes, I was a swappie. Wouldn't touch 'em with a bargepole these days, but I don't regret having been involved. I met some nice people, and it did get me interested in left politics, far more so than before.

 

[maomao]

I was brought up in a fairly high ranking SWP household. On paper sales and demos since I was in a pram. Tony Cliff gave me sweeties. Put me off for life.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well, lots of things as it happens.

The tactic was important at the time. Later, the tactic was dropped due to the importance of broadening the anti-fascist movement. Also, as support for the NF collapsed, with the consequent split into various factions, the tactic was deemed no longer necessary.

A decision made, as I recall, not by the membership, but (as usual) by the CC.

Despite these changes, some individuals wanted to continue chasing after the fascists and were promptly expelled from the SWP.

Those who hadn't already seen the way the wind was blowing.[/quote]

Later, some of those went on to form Red Action, who for some time now have also moved away from confronting fascists and into the electoral arena as the IWCA.

Unlike the SWP though, RA moved away from anti-fascism because there was genuinely little threat from the racist "footsoldiers", whereas the SWP, at least according to my (admittedly cynical) memory, moved away from physical direct action so that they could attempt to benefit from a less confrontation-based anti-fascist stance, even though there was still a need for people willing to use forceful methods against the boneheads.

 

[audiotech]

A decision made, as I recall, not by the membership, but (as usual) by the CC.

Those who hadn't already seen the way the wind was blowing.

Unlike the SWP though, RA moved away from anti-fascism because there was genuinely little threat from the racist "footsoldiers", whereas the SWP, at least according to my (admittedly cynical) memory, moved away from physical direct action so that they could attempt to benefit from a less confrontation-based anti-fascist stance, even though there was still a need for people willing to use forceful methods against the boneheads.

'Squaddism' was a defensive tactic, which involved a select minority of militant anti-fascists, usually having to discuss and act covertly. I wasn't heartened by people leaving the SWP and others being expelled, but the right decision was to focus all resources on a broad-based anti-fascist movement. This was a time to involve as many people as possible and I remember there was a general consensus in favour of building such a broad based anti-fascist movement. Oh and the very fact of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands involved in activity is more than forceful against fascists, including boneheads.

Witnessing later the NF fracture into four demonstrated clearly that the NF were a spent force. Some of it's remnants did turn to violence, some of it against each other.

At the end of the day, involving as many people as possible in a movement against fascism is the only real strategy that will defeat it. It did then. It can again.

 

[october_lost]

I never formally became a member, but went to numerous meetings but always found them a bit irksome. Didnt join them and stuck it out in left politics despite them. I have had to 'work with them' on numerous occassions over the years and its always been the same leninist tricks that make you feel compromised even dealing with them, its nice to see them on the wane frankly.

 

[barney_pig]

'Squaddism' was a defensive tactic, which involved a select minority of militant anti-fascists, usually having to discuss and act covertly. I wasn't heartened by people leaving the SWP and others being expelled, but the right decision was to focus all resources on a broad-based anti-fascist movement. This was a time to involve as many people as possible and I remember there was a general consensus in favour of building such a broad based anti-fascist movement. Oh and the very fact of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands involved in activity is more than forceful against fascists, including boneheads.

Witnessing later the NF fracture into four demonstrated clearly that the NF were a spent force. Some of it's remnants did turn to violence, some of it against each other.

At the end of the day, involving as many people as possible in a movement against fascism is the only real strategy that will defeat it. It did then. It can again.

which is AN interesting twist on the real story which was the swp cc announcing that the NF were broken after thatchers election and expelling everyone who objected to the new line and the winding up of the ANL.
Any chance of you commenting on the latest collection of expulsions from youre party?

 

[nino_savatte]

I came close to joining 3 times at uni. The reason was probably more to do with disenchantment and impatience with Kinnock's Labour party than owt else. After about 3 minutes of thinking about it, I moved on to other, more productive thoughts.

 

[biff curtains]

You started selling the paper for them in 1977? What, were you like 10 years old or summat?

He's older than he looks

I was a paid up member for about a year though only active for six to eight months before I got disenchanted with them and realised you could be politically effective (more so in fact) outside them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

which is AN interesting twist on the real story which was the swp cc announcing that the NF were broken after thatchers election and expelling everyone who objected to the new line and the winding up of the ANL.

That's pretty much how I remember it all going down, too.

Of course, anyone who didn't have chicken giblets for eyes could see that while the NF was haemorraging members and credibility, many of their followers were already looking to Tyndal and other alternatives to Webster for a lead. The NF might have been broken, but the fascists hadn't been smashed. Even the Mosleyites were able to find new billets with the "anti-red" right organisations that people like Sterling and Birdwood supported.

 

[tbaldwin]

'Squaddism' was a defensive tactic, which involved a select minority of militant anti-fascists, usually having to discuss and act covertly. I wasn't heartened by people leaving the SWP and others being expelled, but the right decision was to focus all resources on a broad-based anti-fascist movement. This was a time to involve as many people as possible and I remember there was a general consensus in favour of building such a broad based anti-fascist movement. Oh and the very fact of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands involved in activity is more than forceful against fascists, including boneheads.

Witnessing later the NF fracture into four demonstrated clearly that the NF were a spent force. Some of it's remnants did turn to violence, some of it against each other.

At the end of the day, involving as many people as possible in a movement against fascism is the only real strategy that will defeat it. It did then. It can again.

Have to say, I have always thought that this arguement was wrong.
the whole building a broad based movement wank is what helped the fascists to grow in the early 90s. ARA and the ANL helped promote the BNP and so did AFA.
Squaddism scared the shit out of the BNP and humiliated them in front of their potential supporters.

 

[bluestreak]

nope. my introduction to poilitics was through the m11 campaign and there were enough anarchists there to ensure that the young bluestreak was given adequate training in SWP avoidance tactics.

 

[Belushi]

Nope, the only vestiges of the Stalinism I learnt on my dads knee is a fondness for parades and a loathing of trots.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I have to say I got a great deal more in terms of thought and education from my thirty months' membership than I've got in twenty years since from the anti-SWP left.

 

[Belushi]

I have to say I got a great deal more in terms of thought and education from my thirty months' membership than I've got in twenty years since from the anti-SWP left.

Your probably irretrievable contaminated

Here, have a picture of a tank

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Here's another

 

[butchersapron]

You should make more of an effort then.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yeah but I'm 42 and my effort days are behind me.

 

[audiotech]

which is AN interesting twist on the real story which was the swp cc announcing that the NF were broken after thatchers election and expelling everyone who objected to the new line and the winding up of the ANL.
Any chance of you commenting on the latest collection of expulsions from youre party?

Was my party of choice at the time, however, I don't recall any announcement, but it was clear the NF were broken.

I'll await more info on the expulsions before I comment, but it looks as though Galloway has strengthened his hand within Respect.

 

[audiotech]

Have to say, I have always thought that this arguement was wrong.
the whole building a broad based movement wank is what helped the fascists to grow in the early 90s. ARA and the ANL helped promote the BNP and so did AFA.
Squaddism scared the shit out of the BNP and humiliated them in front of their potential supporters.

Mainly in London and Manchester though?

Have you the figures for the growth of the BNP in the nineties. I think you'll find that growth wasn't very much, if at all.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Yeah but I'm 42 and my effort days are behind me.

20 years behind you by the sound of it.

Louis MacNeice

p.s. I have never been a member of the SWP although I did enjoy reading 'The Cutlass and the Lash'.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

At least, sir. At least.