Have the US no culture at all?

[Streathamite]

Ah yes, the reply of the snob...



Because most people aren't as intelligent and cultured as you, right?

Congratulations on keeping up your record on talking utter, unadulterated shite! WHERE did I say one was better than the others? I DELIBERATELY kept clear of all value judgements and went on to say (as you'd have shown If you'd reproed my post honestly):

Different people like/love different aspects of a nation's culture.

- clear imputation being that an awful lot of people like US mass culture?
I know you can't take any criticism of anything US without throwing a hissy fit, johnny, but here you do look really silly.

 

[Yossarian]

Er, did you forget about the Partition?

Momentarily - but was that all the fault of the Muslims alone?

I'm sure the Muslim conquest of India saw plenty of terrible atrocities, but I don't think it's all quite as clear-cut as simple conquest by sword - a lot of the converts were willing Untouchables who saw a chance to be treated like human beings under Islam.

Indian history's far from my Mastermind specialist subject but I think that website you linked to is more than a little bit biased - on the front page it advocates wiping Islam off the face of the planet. http://www.hindutva.org

 

[nino_savatte]

Can someone tell me what the Mughal Empire has to do with this thread? Or is JC just using this as an excuse to a) divert and b) have yet another pop at Muslims because he is a) actually a racist underneath that exterior and b) he's spreading more lies on behalf of some organisation.

 

[Streathamite]

1st - a&b
2nd - a); he IS a racist and he regards both arab and islamic culture as inferior-witness his hilarious squirms when i point out we have less to fear froma nation with Iran's non-aggression record than the USA's aggression-driven one),
Also because he has not grown up to the point where he realises that there are, actually, cleverer responses to all and any criticisms of any thing american than to say "WAAAAH!!! But that lot are SO MUCH WORSE!!!! Look what they did!"
if i weren't so busy laffing at the geezer, I'd find it quite sad!

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Can someone tell me what the Mughal Empire has to do with this thread? Or is JC just using this as an excuse to a) divert and b) have yet another pop at Muslims because he is a) actually a racist underneath that exterior and b) he's spreading more lies on behalf of some organisation.

Aldeberon asked for an example of an detructive regime that existed in the past that was also Muslim. He (rather pridefully) claimed none had existed.

Here it is:

Islamic empires didn't destroy what they encountered. They managed to incorporate the cultures they found on conquered land. That is the main reason behind the success of the in origin nomadic Arab culture and their sucessors. They were able to learn, to study on and to use instead of destroying blindly what they didn't know about.

...

salaam.

If you behave pridefully you should expect to get called on it.

 

[Streathamite]

but Aldebaran didn't 'ask' for an example.
he made a claim which was partially complete and JC2 picked out the shittiest, most selective and most biased anti-islamic, anti-arab links to spin this thread off into the realms of how awful dem muslims were.
It's happened, in like fashion time and time again, and with the same poster. either JC2 has the attention span of a gnat, or it's deliberate derailing.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

but Aldebaran didn't 'ask' for an example.
he made a claim which was partially complete and JC2 picked out the shittiest, most selective and most biased anti-islamic, anti-arab links to spin this thread off into the realms of how awful dem muslims were.
It's happened, in like fashion time and time again, and with the same poster. either JC2 has the attention span of a gnat, or it's deliberate derailing.

If I recall Aldebaran did ask originally, but edited it. Doesn't matter though. Most seem to think it entirely fair to throw Mai Lai around. It's even deserved if someone is being all "rah, rah, USA." I expect to be able to point out to other's their country's/culture's moral failings in return.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

except your links were selective, biassed, inaccurate unreliable shite of the highest order, the mughals were around for NOWHERE near 1100 years - as you'd know if you knew anything about that - and what he wrote happens to be, broadly speaking, quite correct (as you'd also know if you knew anything at all of asian history other than how to C&P dodgy links!)

If Mughal repression is a myth, why do/did the hindus and muslims of india hate each other with such intensity?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Actually, I'll take my snob comment back vis a vis Red.

I've reconsidered what you said in that post: perhaps you weren't being elitist there.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

2nd - a); he IS a racist and he regards both arab and islamic culture as inferior-witness his hilarious squirms when i point out we have less to fear froma nation with Iran's non-aggression record than the USA's aggression-driven one),

Fuck you.

Also because he has not grown up to the point where he realises that there are, actually, cleverer responses to all and any criticisms of any thing american than to say "WAAAAH!!! But that lot are SO MUCH WORSE!!!! Look what they did!"
if i weren't so busy laffing at the geezer, I'd find it quite sad!

The discussion of the Mughal empire involved a comment by aldebaran and a reply by me.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

but Aldebaran didn't 'ask' for an example.
he made a claim which was partially complete and JC2 picked out the shittiest, most selective and most biased anti-islamic, anti-arab links to spin this thread off into the realms of how awful dem muslims were.
It's happened, in like fashion time and time again, and with the same poster. either JC2 has the attention span of a gnat, or it's deliberate derailing.

Do the math for yourself:

....................................

The very first Muslim attack on India in Sindh in the year 715 A.D by Arabs led by Mohammad Bin Qasim. They had displaced Raja Dabir who ruled Sindh from his capital Deval (near modern Karachi). They even unsuccessfully tried to attack Malwa. After this invasion, which was limited to Sindh, for a period of 300 years kings like Raja Bhoja and other Gurjara Kings thwarted all further Muslim attacks. The next invasion was by Turk Sabuktagin. He had established himself in Khorasan and extended his kingdom extended to Kabul and Ghazni. In 986 AD he came into conflict with Raja Jaipal of Bathinda. In 991 A.D. Raja Jaipal allied with other Hindu king including Rajyapala the Prathira king of Kannauj and Dhanga the ruler of the distant Chandela kingdom but they too were defeated.






As the Mughal Emipre broke down there was rise of great Maratha power, Sikhs and arrival of British East India Company. Last of the titular Mughal King Bahadur Shah II took part in the revolt of 1857 against the English. After the failure of this revolt he was imprisoned and deported to Rangoon where he died in 1862. This marked the end of the Mughal dynasty.

http://www.gatewayforindia.com/history/muslim_history.htm


You call me an anti islamic racist: why do you pretend that muslims have never done anything negative throughout history? Why are you such an unquestioning apologist?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

but Aldebaran didn't 'ask' for an example.
he made a claim which was partially complete and JC2 picked out the shittiest, most selective and most biased anti-islamic, anti-arab links to spin this thread off into the realms of how awful dem muslims were.
It's happened, in like fashion time and time again, and with the same poster. either JC2 has the attention span of a gnat, or it's deliberate derailing.

Jesus man, you should get a job in politics.

Maybe you could be Bush's press secretary.

 

[nino_savatte]

Aldeberon asked for an example of an detructive regime that existed in the past that was also Muslim. He (rather pridefully) claimed none had existed.

Here it is:



If you behave pridefully you should expect to get called on it.

While I accept what you are saying, JC needs no excuse to derail a thread and divert people's attention from the main issues. This thread has now been diverted elsewhere and JC is laughing his head off. But Johnny also has a major propblem with certain groups of people: the Muslims and the French, in particular, are often targets of his vile xenophobia, so now he can indulge himself and wallow in his crapulent bigotry.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fuck you.



The discussion of the Mughal empire involved a comment by aldebaran and a reply by me.

Language, Johnny, language.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I have to bump this. People need to see Red's bid to become a political frontman.

"He made a claim which was partially complete."

Can it get any better?

 

[mears]

here's this magical, astonishing suggestion, underscored by Saddam's total lack of WMDs;.......they coulda removed the sanctions too.

And back to supporting Saddam like before the first Gulf War?

Beacuse that is what happens when the sanctions come rolling back.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Islamic empires didn't destroy what they encountered. They managed to incorporate the cultures they found on conquered land. That is the main reason behind the success of the in origin nomadic Arab culture and their sucessors. They were able to learn, to study on and to use instead of destroying blindly what they didn't know about.

If you want to learn about the lasting influences of all that on what is called nowadays "the West" and how that came to the knowledge "the West", you only need to go to a good library.

salaam.

People seemed unhappy with my Mughal example, given to contradict the above statement. How about this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide


Somehow, the Armenian Genocide slipped my mind till now.

 

[spring-peeper]

People seemed unhappy with my Mughal example, given to contradict the above statement. How about this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide


Somehow, the Armenian Genocide slipped my mind till now.

hmmm - that doesn't look very peaceful and understanding.

I suppose that all religions have a violent past. None is really any better than the other.

But this isn't about religion is it? This is about a nation and how it handles culture. We're seeing how the United States has conducted itself. I have no problem discussing my countries history on this issue. I'm sure that most of the Brits wouldn't mind having their countries past involvements investigated. So, in all fairness, what country are you from again, Aldebaran?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I suppose that all religions have a violent past. None is really any better than the other.

I agree totally.

 

[tangentlama]

People seemed unhappy with my Mughal example, given to contradict the above statement. How about this one?

Somehow, the Armenian Genocide slipped my mind till now.

What do you know about the Armenian Genocide, and what relation does it have to Islam, Johnny, and bear in mind, repeating media soundbites won't wash. This is the political forum. Quotes/Sources/Dates plus ISBN if it's a book.
Wikipedia is not an acceptible source for info on history on Islamic or Israeli-Palestinian conflict, since those areas especially are subject to re-write wars and POV bias.

ps. spring-peeper: quoting images so they appear twice is image overkill. i had thought it was against the FAQ/rules. is it?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What do you know about the Armenian Genocide, and what relation does it have to Islam, Johnny, and bear in mind, repeating media soundbites won't wash. This is the political forum. Quotes/Sources/Dates plus ISBN if it's a book.
Wikipedia is not an acceptible source for info on history on Islamic or Israeli-Palestinian conflict, since those areas especially are subject to re-write wars and POV bias.

ps. spring-peeper: quoting images so they appear twice is image overkill. i had thought it was against the FAQ/rules. is it?

Don't you believe that it happened?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Just to be clear, my position is similar to what spring peeper posted above. Islamic empires were guilty of oppression and violence on occasion, as were most if not all of the others.

 

[Aldebaran]

If I recall Aldebaran did ask originally, but edited it.

1. I do not belong to the group (sadly growing by the day) of internet users who takes the www as The Source of Knowledge and Truth, hence I do not "ask" to post "links" to anything.
2. I don't "edit" my posts but to correct the interference of my precious birthgift dyslexia if I detect this. That happens in particular and very often when I typed the word "quote" wrong, which on its turn is one of the most common errors I make.
3. When in this thread I mentioned Islamic Empires that was in context of the early Arab empires and if I recall well (I'm not going to re-read this whole thread, sorry) in context of answering a question of another member.
4. Whatever gets posted as "links", I don't open them if I have no clue where it leeds me to.
5. Obviously I don't read posts of members who managed to make it to my ignore list.
6. If someone is genuinely interested (which to begin with already excludes putting up some links to dubious websites and then take that as "source") in discussing Islamic history, the best way to show such serious interest is to make a thread on it.
7. Obviously this thread is not made for it since it goes about the USA.

salaam.

 

[mears]

1. I do not belong to the group (sadly growing by the day) of internet users who takes the www as The Source of Knowledge and Truth, hence I do not "ask" to post "links" to anything.
2. I don't "edit" my posts but to correct the interference of my precious birthgift dyslexia if I detect this. That happens in particular and very often when I typed the word "quote" wrong, which on its turn is one of the most common errors I make.
3. When in this thread I mentioned Islamic Empires that was in context of the early Arab empires and if I recall well (I'm not going to re-read this whole thread, sorry) in context of answering a question of another member.
4. Whatever gets posted as "links", I don't open them if I have no clue where it leeds me to.
5. Obviously I don't read posts of members who managed to make it to my ignore list.
6. If someone is genuinely interested (which to begin with already excludes putting up some links to dubious websites and then take that as "source") in discussing Islamic history, the best way to show such serious interest is to make a thread on it.
7. Obviously this thread is not made for it since it goes about the USA.

salaam.

You are an Arab scholar correct?

What do you think of the Van Gogh murder?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

4. Whatever gets posted as "links", I don't open them if I have no clue where it leeds me to. .

How convenient for you.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

2. I don't "edit" my posts but to correct the interference of my precious birthgift dyslexia if I detect this. That happens in particular and very often when I typed the word "quote" wrong, which on its turn is one of the most common errors I make. .

I never cease to be amazed at the number of dyslexic posters to bulletin boards. My experience in daily life has been that dyslexics tend to avoid media that rely almost solely on the written word.

 

[Julie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4908940.stm

"US forces built a helicopter pad on the ancient ruins and filled their sandbags with archaeological material in the months following the 2003 invasion."

"Babylon's Hanging Gardens were among the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World."

Culture? I'm not sure about that. I enjoy plenty of things American, including the food, many of its movies, jeans, lots of its music, etc.

However, I do find what they did here particularly crass.

 

[marksl]

I also enjoy many things american i also enjoy many things non american, the topic seems weird, the belief only one country gives the world culture. The american view only what they do is important is wrong. When you watch an american film do you also eat italian food? drink french wine eat off your ikea furniture etc etc..

the world has culture not just one nation that loves it self far too much.