Have the US no culture at all?

[JHE]

I agree with some of that, but you shouldn't underestimate the effect of shere corporate might. Take sitcoms for instance, American sitcoms are quite funny and polished because they can afford to hire the writers and production to really pack the jokes in, and they sell them very cheeply overseas. The UK teevee industry finds it hard to compete with that (Channel 4 depends on it as a staple) let alone the likes of Indian or Nigerian teevee companies. With music, we're talking about powerful corporations that own the record labels and promotional apparatus... alot of US culture is cyberneticaly enhanced with corporate muscle, undercutting all competition.

There is American culture I like, most of it wasn't founded by a corporation, although much of it got picked up down the line when the suits realise that as content, it's half good enough to bambard and over-power the world with.

Sound points there.

Nevertheless, the culture flogged by the Yank corporations has to appeal to the punters, or sales would flop.

I'd add that one of the reasons that US culture appeals is that people aspire to a US standard of living/level of consumption - and so are interested in the trappings of that way of life.

 

[TAE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4908940.stm

"US forces built a helicopter pad on the ancient ruins and filled their sandbags with archaeological material in the months following the 2003 invasion."

"Babylon's Hanging Gardens were among the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World."

 

[angry bob]

Hey, once the Romans had bashed the 'barbarian' armies, it didn't force them to do anything, haven't you ever seen The Life of Brian? I'm just saying there's a relationship between political/economic and military dominance, and cultural influence.

So that explains why I've read Shakespere and was listening to Herbalizer this morning.

oh wait ... no ... the british don't seem to have military dominance in the US. I just like some British culture cause its good.

 

[camouflage]

Sound points there.

Nevertheless, the culture flogged by the Yank corporations has to appeal to the punters, or sales would flop.

I'd add that one of the reasons that US culture appeals is that people aspire to a US standard of living/level of consumption - and so are interested in the trappings of that way of life.

Not sure about that. America produces good music but so do allot of other places, or is it only the English speaking world that counts? In which case of course the US would be don, it's the biggest of the English-speaking producers out of Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland and the UK.

What else, clothing? I've never bought a shirt or a pair of jeans because I wanted to look like an American, I can tell you that for free. Denim's a good idea, that came out of the States, but paper is a good idea too, that came from China.

Food, for me- Chinese is the best, and maybe Thai...

I'm struggling to find examples of American culture I absolutely must have because some part of me wants to buy into the American lifestyle, please suggest some.

 

[camouflage]

So that explains why I've read Shakespere and was listening to Herbalizer this morning.

oh wait ... no ... the british don't seem to have military dominance in the US. I just like some British culture cause its good.

Come on, Shakespears a prime example of the success of the British Empire when it was the dominant power spreading its language everywhere and making it so millions of people and educational institutions now pay attention to it's greatest writers (as endorsed by the establishment, perhaps not without merit but nonetheless...)

Herbalizer, who are their record label? I bet if it was just a local outfit you'd never hear of them. Only now with the internet can good music reach the masses regardles of being picked up by some level of corpo-power.

 

[Structaural]

uh huh?

Its always struck my as kinda amusing (in a sad way) to hear american culture trashed ... often by people wearing levis and Yankees baseball caps.

So american music and film is shit huh?

And the UK's no different from Belgium when it comes to the ubiquity of american culture.

But hell, we get 'last of the summer wine' and 'keeping up appearances' on pbs ....

oh well...

I never said the UK wasn't. Wafer thin biscuit?

We're trashing the nastier parts of your culture not the good stuff - it was mears who brought up (like most people often do McDonalds and Coke.

And yeah the vast majority of your films are pants.

 

[JoePolitix]

Herbalizer, who are their record label?

Ninja Tune

 

[camouflage]

Ninja Tune

Top stuff

Maybe angry bob just has good taste in music.

 

[JHE]

I'm struggling to find examples of American culture I absolutely must have because some part of me wants to buy into the American lifestyle, please suggest some.

No, because you have made it plain that you don't adopt US-derived things for that reason.

But I bet you have adopted US things for other reasons, which brings us back to my point that lots of US culture is attractive to many people - even to you!

Unless, that is, you can tell us that you always avoid jeans, Hollywood and popular music of US origin etc etc.

 

[JHE]

And yeah the vast majority of your films are pants.

I agree - but even if only 10% of Hollywood is good, that's a lot of good Hollywood films.

 

[angry bob]

oh well...

I never said the UK wasn't. Wafer thin biscuit?

that's wafer thin mint

We're trashing the nastier parts of your culture not the good stuff - it was mears who brought up (like most people often do McDonalds and Coke.

well you've got to take the good with the bad I guess. I quite like coke though. And so, evidently, do an awful lot of people the world over.

And yeah the vast majority of your films are pants.

The vast majority of films are 'pants' period.

 

[camouflage]

No, because you have made it plain that you don't adopt US-derived things for that reason.

But I bet you have adopted US things for other reasons, which brings us back to my point that lots of US culture is attractive to many people - even to you!

Unless, that is, you can tell us that you always avoid jeans,

But all of those things, jeans and movies, fall under commercial dominance, I don't make a point of not buying American stuff, it's just that American stuff doesn't necessarily appeal to me because it's American or related to the actual cultural content of the US. If wearing jeans means I'm aspiring to US culture, then writing on a notepad means I aspire to Chinese culture, eating a potatoe means I aspire to Columbian culture or wherever it is that potatoes initially were eaten. Big mega-buck films can be entertaining, because they have big mega-buck special effects. But there are alot of films out there that I find far more rewarding then what Hollywood pumps out every year, and I think anyone not from the US would hand on heart admit similar (especially an Indian or Korean)

I think it's American commerce or that everybody gets into, not so much the culture. Everybody else has metric fucktons more culture then America does.

 

[angry bob]

Come on, Shakespears a prime example of the success of the British Empire when it was the dominant power spreading its language everywhere and making it so millions of people and educational institutions now pay attention to it's greatest writers (as endorsed by the establishment, perhaps not without merit but nonetheless...)

I thought it was just that the guy was an incredible playwright.

Are the likes of Steinbeck, Faulkner, Hemmingway read much in the UK? Cause noone's going to tell me that is the result of american empire.

 

[angry bob]

But all of those things, jeans and movies, fall under commercial dominance, I don't make a point of not buying American stuff, it's just that American stuff doesn't necessarily appeal to me because it's American or related to the actual cultural content of the US. If wearing jeans means I'm aspiring to US culture, then writing on a notepad means I aspire to Chinese culture, eating a potatoe means I aspire to Columbian culture or wherever it is that potatoes initially were eaten. Big mega-buck films can be entertaining, because they have big mega-buck special effects. But there are alot of films out there that I find far more rewarding then what Hollywood pumps out every year, and I think anyone not from the US would hand on heart admit similar (especially an Indian or Korean)

It's not about aspiring to american culture. I'm not aspiring to be british by listening to british music. I just take the bits I like from any culture ... cause I like it, whther its music, literature or movies.

And it so happens that an awful lot of people the world over like denim, baseball, hip hop and yes, burgers and coke.

I quite like a whole range of foreign films; korean, japanese, chinese even british. But if I look at my list if top ten films ... they're nearly all american.

 

[camouflage]

I thought it was just that the guy was an incredible playwright.

Are the likes of Steinbeck, Faulkner, Hemmingway read much in the UK? Cause noone's going to tell me that is the result of american empire.

I read For Whome the Bell Tolls, it wuz really good

I read the Bagvad Ghita, brilliant stuff. Haven't read much literature from over cultures though, bit of a philistine really.

I've heard of Steinbeck, crime writer right?

 

[angry bob]

I've heard of Steinbeck, crime writer right?

dude! no!

of mice and men?

 

[camouflage]

dude! no!

of mice and men?

Oh yeah, they made us read it in school. Very touching, sad ending.

Nearly forgot, I read The Sorrow of War, a Vietnamese book, didn't finish it though, abit heavy going. I could tell it was quality though.

 

[JoePolitix]

well you've got to take the good with the bad I guess. I quite like coke though. And so, evidently, do an awful lot of people the world over.

Particularly the trade unionists who work in the coca-cola bottling plants in Colombia.

 

[Structaural]

that's wafer thin mint

Our dominance is complete.
(slaps self)

 

[camouflage]

It's not about aspiring to american culture. I'm not aspiring to be british by listening to british music. I just take the bits I like from any culture ... cause I like it, whther its music, literature or movies.

And it so happens that an awful lot of people the world over like denim, baseball, hip hop and yes, burgers and coke.

I quite like a whole range of foreign films; korean, japanese, chinese even british. But if I look at my list if top ten films ... they're nearly all american.

Are you yerself an American? When I buy a McD I do so because it's cheap and easy, not because I think American cuisine is all that, I'm quite doubtful that McDs represents American cuisine anyway. Besides, why do they sell Hamburgers? Is it because America is totally smitten with German culture?

I think we all do that, we all take bits that we like from everywhere. If anything the US is a big meeting place of many cultures, it's a major reflector, something makes it big there and gets jizzed-out everywhere else becouse of the way capitalism and commercialism works, don't confuse the medium for the message (if it's realy corpo then the message gets lost along the way anyway, like all those brave American sailors and soldiers that saved us from the nazi's with a little help from blighty)

Baseball, maybe the 'baseball cap' design itself is just a design classic, personally I don't wear them. Used to have a NYC one because I liked the design, then I saw Gangs of New York and threw it away. Still have my FuBu one that I don't wear, speaking of which Hip Hop's alright but never been into it more then British, Jamaican and other music. Does the success of HipHop mean so called 'black culture' is aspired to worldwide? Or is it only alright to say that if you call it American culture?

 

[Structaural]

I thought it was just that the guy was an incredible playwright.

Are the likes of Steinbeck, Faulkner, Hemmingway read much in the UK? Cause noone's going to tell me that is the result of american empire.

I love Jim Harrison's books. In fact I'm a big fan of those American books set during the expansion period of American history, fascinating stuff.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I doubt if war is ever kind to art and culture. I've never met a squaddie of any nationality that understood art. Still, the people running things ought to know better or care better. One of the many reasons we shouldn't be having wars in the first place.

In our defence:

Edward Hopper:

http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1942.51&page=7

Georgia O’Keeffe:

http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1947.712&page=11

Arthus Dove:

http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1949.531&page=4

Stuart Davies:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1956.137&page=3

Frank Lloyd Wright:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1972.310&page=19

Mary Cassett:

http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=1910.2&page=2

Normal Bel Geddes:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/highlight_item?acc=2005.50.1-8&page=1

 

[angry bob]

Are you yerself an American? When I buy a McD I do so because it's cheap and easy, not because I think American cuisine is all that, I'm quite doubtful that McDs represents American cuisine anyway. Besides, why do they sell Hamburgers? Is it because America is totally smitten with German culture?

I think we all do that, we all take bits that we like from everywhere. If anything the US is a big meeting place of many cultures, it's a major reflector, something makes it big there and gets jizzed-out everywhere else becouse of the way capitalism and commercialism works, don't confuse the medium for the message (if it's realy corpo then the message gets lost along the way anyway, like all those brave American sailors and soldiers that saved us from the nazi's with a little help from blighty)

Baseball, maybe the 'baseball cap' design itself is just a design classic, personally I don't wear them. Used to have a NYC one because I liked the design, then I saw Gangs of New York and threw it away. Still have my FuBu one that I don't wear, speaking of which Hip Hop's alright but never been into it more then British, Jamaican and other music. Does the success of HipHop mean so called 'black culture' is aspired to worldwide? Or is it only alright to say that if you call it American culture?

I am indeed an american.

And yes, people like mcdonalds cause its cheap and easy and tastes ok. They dont buy it cause they want to be american or whatever. And americans dont eat them to be german.

You're right about america being a meeting place of many cultures. That's one of the reasons its so culturally 'powerful'.

Dont know if you could call hip hop 'black culture' when your talking about it from a global perspective. American would be more specific and 'african-american' more specific still. And yes, I suspect many people throughout the world aspire to african-american culture ... many to some of the negative aspects as reflected in gangsta-rap. I prefer to leave race out of it though. For me, its the music. I have no desire to move to south-central LA.

 

[camouflage]

So to summize my position

Soldiers are proffesional thugs, they break things, the Conquerors that send them a'conquering know this, that's why they have to dress it up in flowery words like 'liberation' and 'humanitarian intervention', 'peacekeping' and 'regime change'.

A mojor part of American culture is to do with militarism in one form or other, (just like with the Romans) another major aspect of American culture is the capitalism that drives.

The content of American culture isn't particularly powerful, the methods by which it's delivered to the rest of the world are, and I agree there's often a degree of extra receptiveness anyway seeing how much of it came from the rest of the world in the first place (Hamburgers by McD's is a perfect example)

Many things by American culture are interesting, don't mean I wanna live there. Other cultures interest me too.

 

[camouflage]

By the way, what's with that annoying thing that US producers have about sticking the word "American" in front of everything, as if that's supposed to make it even more special and interesting and relevent? Some examples:

American Beauty
American Pie
American Werewolf in London/Paris
American Psycho
American Haunting

etc.

I reckon the US just really fancies itself, and so assumes that everyone else does too.

 

[friedaweed]

If we don't have a culture why are so many people worried about American culture seeping into their cultures?

Hollywood, Coke, McDonalds. Why when I am in a country like Belgium for instance are American TV shows on most channels? Why is baseball so popular in Japan or Cuba? Why is an American style theme park stationed outside of Paris? Wh do so many youths around the world imitate African American Gangsta culture? Why do Michael Jacksons new albums still sell by the millions around the world?

American culture is Don king.

Only half way through the first page on this thread but i had to respond to this.

Mears this is the biggest shooting yourself in the foot statement since peebs went springtime for Hitler.

http://www.lyricsmagnet.com/song/MORRISSEY/AMERICA+IS+NOT+THE+WORLD_lyrics_carsg.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's the culture of the destroyer. Anything that might give pleasure to the average human being, that might improve their lives, must be destroyed. That way they can connect to the power over others that they so desire due to their own pathetic inadequate lives.

Nothing really to do with culture, just the need for destruction so that they may feel some kind of good within their amoral bodies.

Beware the man who's lost his soul, he will just destroy at every possible moment. It is his fuel for his life.

http://www.rawa.org/statues2.htm

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I remember the US Army stood by and watched as the Iraqi museums and art galleries were plundered.

Maybe it's only their culture that is worth protecting.

But.... it was Iraqis doing the plundering.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I am not disagreeing with that but millions around the world seem to love it, including Burger King.

..but not Arby's.

 

[spring-peeper]

But.... it was Iraqis doing the plundering.

No it wasn't.