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Has Galloway completely lost the plot?

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i'm dismissing your analogy as shit, because the war on iraq is nothing like WWII it may be insensitive to your feelings, but it has fuck all to do with the original point

i don't think the assaination of blair would be desirable, or morally justifiable except in a very small minded way. and i think galloway is an utter cock for making that statement, how is that going to help?
 
Try reading more about the tribunal before parading your ego around screaming 'shite and fuck all and utter cock' as if it's a response worth enaging with. Thanks.

"Even those of us who have tried to follow the war closely are not aware of a fraction of the horrors unleashed in Iraq." - Author Arundathi Roy at the World Tribunal on Iraq, Istanbul, 2005.
http://www.worldtribunal.org/
 
Anyone who assassinated Tony Blair would have a lot to answer for in respect of the state clampdown on all dissent that would obviously follow. But could they be condemned on moral grounds?

Politicians and media pundits who have supported the murderous brutality of war on Iraq could hardly claim there was a moral argument against assasination. The assassin could not even be accused of sinking down to Blairs level, since they would have confined their killing to those responsible for murder and mayhem in the World. Whereas Blair is the kind of coward who lines up teenagers to do his killing (and dying) for him, and who is happy for the victims to be largely made up of the innocent. No-one could be blamed for saying that it would be morally justifiable to rid the World of Blair or Bush. In a World that tolerates the likes of Blair and Bush morals are things that are routinely flushed down the toilet.
 
munkeeunit said:
Try reading more about the tribunal before parading your ego around screaming 'shite and fuck all and utter cock' as if it's a response worth enaging with. Thanks.

"Even those of us who have tried to follow the war closely are not aware of a fraction of the horrors unleashed in Iraq." - Author Arundathi Roy at the World Tribunal on Iraq, Istanbul, 2005.
http://www.worldtribunal.org/

fuck off cunt:D
 
Groucho said:
Anyone who assassinated Tony Blair would have a lot to answer for in respect of the state clampdown on all dissent that would obviously follow. But could they be condemned on moral grounds?

Politicians and media pundits who have supported the murderous brutality of war on Iraq could hardly claim there was a moral argument against assasination. The assassin could not even be accused of sinking down to Blairs level, since they would have confined their killing to those responsible for murder and mayhem in the World. Whereas Blair is the kind of coward who lines up teenagers to do his killing (and dying) for him, and who is happy for the victims to be largely made up of the innocent. No-one could be blamed for saying that it would be morally justifiable to rid the World of Blair or Bush. In a World that tolerates the likes of Blair and Bush morals are things that are routinely flushed down the toilet.

blair is just a frontman. it would change nothing. people who see the war on iraq as a decision based on economics can say that revenge as a political point is wrong. and although you could argue that blair deserves to die, that is an individual opinion, and a deliberately provocative one
blair and bush are not responsible for murder and mayhem in the world, it was about a long time before them, it's the same old simplistic shit to blame one person for what is going on. if galloway had any guts why does he not attack the saudi government for the murder and mayhem they are responsible for?

another thing, is that if blair was assasinated, it would almost certainly be arranged by some other scumbag lining up teenagers to do their dirty work
 
If Blair was assasinated the culprits could well be the White House, as much as anyone else. Perfect excuse to effectively annexe the UK *and* invade Iran. Everything is possible with this lot it seems, and Blair is more the dumb puppet who thinks he's an intelligent rottweiller, and so is expendable. Who knows what the future holds anymore.
 
Ninjaboy said:
blair is just a frontman. it would change nothing. people who see the war on iraq as a decision based on economics can say that revenge as a political point is wrong. and although you could argue that blair deserves to die, that is an individual opinion, and a deliberately provocative one
blair and bush are not responsible for murder and mayhem in the world, it was about a long time before them, it's the same old simplistic shit to blame one person for what is going on. if galloway had any guts why does he not attack the saudi government for the murder and mayhem they are responsible for?

another thing, is that if blair was assasinated, it would almost certainly be arranged by some other scumbag lining up teenagers to do their dirty work

OK, but you are still not engaging with the actual debate here.

Blair and Bush are not soley responsible for the fact that there is murder and mayhem in the World. They are responsible for upholding the murderous values and perpetuating the murderous ways of this World. They are responsible in quite a direct sense for the murder and mayhem in Iraq and Afghanistan. If they get their way Iran as well with farreaching consequences.

The despicable Saudi regime is a bit player in all this. If you paid attention to Galloway you wouldknow that he has called for the overthrow of the Saudi regime.

I accept the point, as does Galloway, that killing these individuals would not stop the murder. In fact it would strengthen, and not weaken, the system they represent. That is a strong argument against assassination, but it is not a moral argument.
 
some muslim scumbags line up teenagers to do their killing as well

although westerners believe that the world is run by america, that doesn't extend beyond the american empire
 
Groucho said:
OK, but you are still not engaging with the actual debate here.

Blair and Bush are not soley responsible for the fact that there is murder and mayhem in the World. They are responsible for upholding the murderous values and perpetuating the murderous ways of this World. They are responsible in quite a direct sense for the murder and mayhem in Iraq and Afghanistan. If they get their way Iran as well with farreaching consequences.

The despicable Saudi regime is a bit player in all this. If you paid attention to Galloway you wouldknow that he has called for the overthrow of the Saudi regime.

I accept the point, as does Galloway, that killing these individuals would not stop the murder. In fact it would strengthen, and not weaken, the system they represent. That is a strong argument against assassination, but it is not a moral argument.


in my opinion blair and bush are as responsible as jerry bruckheimer is for making films glorifying the US military, they are symptoms rather than causes. and i think galloway knew what he was doing when he made this comment, and he did it purely for the tabloid shock horror!! value

anyways i gotta go......bugger.... :D
 
How is killing Tony Blair not morally justifiable? Of course it is.

Why are right wingers allowed to kill but left wingers are not? The right from Stalin to Blair to Bush to Clinton to Reagan to Thatcher to Duarte to Papa Doc to Batista to Mobutu to Deby to Breshnev to Surhato are/were all mass murderers.

Of course kiiling them is justfied, its moronic to think it isnt, naive, lightweight, pathetic. Violence + economics = power. It is typical of the european/american centre right to believe that talk and conferences get people power, they do not, violence gets power...
 
Lock&Light said:
No-one has ever known what the future holds. Do you think that there was once a golden age of soothsayers?

Did I say there was?

Not sure what the point of your post is. You scored an ego point though, well done. :cool: (one for me too, now we're quits). :p
 
munkeeunit said:
Did I say there was?

Not sure what the point of your post is. You scored an ego point though, well done. :cool: (one for me too, now we're quits). :p

Your question, "Who knows what the future holds nowadays' is clearly suggestive of a time when knowing what the future held was a possiblity if not a wide-spread expectation.

BTW, what is all that nonsense about ego-points? If you talk rubbish expect someone to point it out.
 
Personally, I thought Galloway is quite eloquent:


"I fully stand by it. Mr Blair has murdered more than 100,000 people in Iraq and the Iraqi people are an occupied people, illegally invaded. They have the moral and legal right to resist that occupation. Why would that right be restricted to the poor bloody infantry that Mr Blair sent into the streets of Iraq?

"If the Iraqis have a right to resist their invaders, they have a right to resist the officers of the invaders; and if they have the right to resist the officers, they have the right to resist those who are giving the officers their orders."

However, Mr Galloway reiterated his view, stated in the GQ article, that it would not be right to carry out a suicide attack on the Prime Minister because it would strengthen rather than weaken the pro-war camp in London and Washington.

He said he would alert the authorities if he knew of such a plan because it would be counterproductive. Instead, Mr Blair and President Bush should be tried in an international court as mass murderers. "I'm not calling for it and I don't want it to happen," he said. Asked if he should inform the authorities of an assassination attempt on the Prime Minister because it was wrong, Mr Galloway replied: "Mr Blair is the man who began the attacks; he's a mass murderer. You have to stand for a minute in the shoes of the Iraqis whose country has been invaded.

"Now if you ask me if my country was invaded by a foreign government, would I consider it morally my right to strike back at that foreign government, there can only be one answer to it."

Challenged to state that suicide bombing could never be justified, Mr Galloway cited remarks made by Cherie Blair in 2002, when she said that young Palestinians felt that they had "no hope" but to blow themselves up. He said: "The issue is not the method, whether it is a Stealth bomber or a suicide bomber, the issue is the target. If innocent civilian people are targeted by any weapon it is morally repugnant."
 
All that bold makes me think it's a good moment to repeat this. People should be more aware of the sheer scale of the brutal criminality of what is occurring in Iraq before they pass judgement on Galloway.

"Even those of us who have tried to follow the war closely are not aware of a fraction of the horrors unleashed in Iraq." - Author Arundathi Roy at the World Tribunal on Iraq, Istanbul, 2005.
http://www.worldtribunal.org/


Everyone seems to be side-stepping from this. How convenient.
 
I don't think that Galloway's asassination comments are necessarily that helpful, but to be fair he didn't initiate the discussion the interviewer did - and I think that many of us would respond to the question in a similar way, that killing Blair would be less of a crime than those he has committed in his foreign policy, not only in the Middle East.

It is hilarious to hear Menzies Campbell who wasn't shocked at the massacre in Fallujah that actually happened outraged over the rhetoric of Galloway

I can't help thinking that if we ran a poll on these boards saying - "Do you think it would be morally justifiable to asassinate Bush" - the majority would vote !Yes, even if in reality they wouldn't condone asassination, so why any different for the partner in crime?
 
munkeeunit said:
"Even those of us who have tried to follow the war closely are not aware of a fraction of the horrors unleashed in Iraq." - Author Arundathi Roy at the World Tribunal on Iraq, Istanbul, 2005.
http://www.worldtribunal.org/

Excuse me that I laugh, be it that it has an extremely bitter and enraged taste for me, but..... "tried to follow up the war closely" is an impossibility to begin with.
Who on earth in the West would that be? The "embedded" so called "journalists" who scream into the camera "WE got them" when their soldier-protectors kill Iraqis resisting their country being invaded, occupied, themselves, their family and friends being dehumanised and murdered?
Or is it about the "non embedded" journalists who have the greatest difficulties to get into the country, and once they are in find themselves targetted and occasionally also murdered by the USA?

Only those in Iraq who suffer or get murdered and those who loose loved ones, if they are inside or outside Iraq themselves, know about the crimes.
The "West" only "knows" what the USA/UK can't prevent to leak out and then discusses endlessly such a case until it is not a crime, but "collateral dammage" (the ultimate denigrating dehumanising insult to those who died or got wounded and everyone who grieves over them) or "terrorism" (such a convenient modern-day word to paint everything with, isn't it.)

salaam.
 
RRH said:
He is by far the most odious man in UK politics. His pomposity knows no bounds.

How?

Cos he was a twat on big brother?

More odious than Blair who seems to get a fucking winston churchill hard on everytime he orders one of his (many) air strikes, who decieved the people of this country in order to luanch an illegal war that has killed 100s of thousands and counting? Whos is demolishing basic democratics freedoms and cilvi rights on an almost daily basis?

More odious than Mandleson? Or Tebbit? Or Alistair Campbell Or Nick Griffin?

Galloway may be a self improtant clown, but he is capable of highlighting uncomfortable truths - and he is notm as far as I am aware, repsonsible for any wars or deaths.

Im still struggliong to see what was so wrong about his remarks.
 
Udo Erasmus said:
I don't think that Galloway's asassination comments are necessarily that helpful, but to be fair he didn't initiate the discussion the interviewer did - and I think that many of us would respond to the question in a similar way, that killing Blair would be less of a crime than those he has committed in his foreign policy, not only in the Middle East.

It is hilarious to hear Menzies Campbell who wasn't shocked at the massacre in Fallujah that actually happened outraged over the rhetoric of Galloway

I can't help thinking that if we ran a poll on these boards saying - "Do you think it would be morally justifiable to asassinate Bush" - the majority would vote !Yes, even if in reality they wouldn't condone asassination, so why any different for the partner in crime?

Yes. With sadness. This is true!
 
Ninjaboy said:
i don't believe for a second that bin laden is hiding in a cave plotting the next attack on a big computer. and i feel the same about that, killing him would do no good to anybody, he's just a puppet

i don't think saying assasination is morally justified for the benefit of the press is 'calling it like it is' .
you need to look at what was said again NB

"Would the assassination of, say, Tony Blair by a suicide bomber, if there were no other casualties, be justified as revenge for the war on Iraq?"

ie trick question, are you going to say killing the pm is ok..

"Yes it would be morally justified.

answer not goign to be pulled into that trap he answers with this not flatly refusing the question but not answering it in the manner it was posed... as is then quantified by his caveat...
I am not calling for it, but if it happened it would be of a wholly different moral order to the events of 7/7.
and further explaination....

"It would be entirely logical and explicable, and morally equivalent to ordering the deaths of thousands of innocent people in Iraq as Blair did."
and comparison ....

it's a good political answer to a polictialy loaded question
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
by no means do i support the port sodden george melly of politics however are you honestly saying that there is something inaccurate in his words...

That's a trifle harsh on George Melly.
 
The real point is not what George Galloway may or may not have said.
The real point is how we can stop any repeats of the state-organized massacre of hundreds of thousands of people, and how we should regard those who justify it.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
Nah it's fooking george melly... :D

Sure it's not fookin Roger Melly off the pessflups telly?

George
GEORGE_MELLY.jpg

Roger
ovatar1109152349.jpg
 
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