Has anyone had dealings with 'Brixton Base'?

[Mind]

Surely if you're "half-white" that means you're black?

No, not really. The appropriate term is mixed race.
Not where I come from (Nigeria) and most if not all of Africa where you're classed as something in between or just white and definitely not in many parts of the world. In Brazil it's the other way round, if you're not fully black you're classed as white.

The half-white = black is a left-over from the racist one-drop rule. As usual, the UK taking lessons on how to deal with racial plurality from the US.
That's why now, when you're asked to fill in a form with your ethnic group, you don't just get three boxes for Black, White and Asian.

It is older generations who still think that half-white = black. Certainly you won't hear anyone under-30 describing themselves as such.
And before anyone starts off with the "But I have a mixed friend who I call black/coloured and she doesn't mind". Just stop there. Most people do not enjoy going into long deep conversations about the politically correct term they would would like to be callled, especially in social gatherings with people that are not their nearest and dearest. It just isn't worth it.

We live in a multi-racial society. It is not 1930 anymore and there is no place for black or white nationalism. It is even more offensive when a mixed-race person who should exemplify how different races can live in harmony believes in a doctrine about separate communities leading separate lives and is then giving a £117,00 job to advise the mayor on race relations!

 

[Fullyplumped]

Certainly you won't hear anyone under-30 describing themselves as such.[/B]

I'm not under 30, I am from this country, and I've never heard a black person (your definition or mine) say that a person of mixed race was not black. We're all probably living in the past, or maybe we Missed A Meeting. Should we be told how to speak about race in this country by people from abroad, or can we still use our own terminology?

 

[Mind]

I'm not under 30, I am from this country, and I've never heard a black person (your definition or mine) say that a person of mixed race was not black. We're all probably living in the past, or maybe we Missed A Meeting. Should we be told how to speak about race in this country by people from abroad, or can we still use our own terminology?

Thanks but my being Nigerian does not stop me from being British.
I was born here just like you and have dual British and Nigerian heritage and don't need some anonymous person to tell me where I'm from or what I can or cannot say.

The fact that you are choosing to address me, my colour or nationality rather than the points above gives a clearer view of what sort of person you are.
This is not little England anymore, so get over it.

Maybe you just don't know enough black people to have heard a different opinion, but there is no consensus on what people choose to call themselves .

It certainly isn't up to you to tell us when we are black or not.

Whether or not you describe a mixed-race person as black, the fact is they are still half-white. End of.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Thanks but my being Nigerian does not stop me from being British.
I was born here just like you and have dual British and Nigerian heritage and don't need some anonymous person to tell me where I'm from or what I can or cannot say.

The fact that you are choosing to address me, my colour or nationality rather than the points above gives a clearer view of what sort of person you are.
This is not little England anymore, so get over it.

Maybe you just don't know enough black people to have heard a different opinion, but there is no consensus on what people choose to call themselves .

It certainly isn't up to you to tell us when we are black or not.

Whether or not you describe a mixed-race person as black, the fact is they are still half-white. End of.

Nae offence, like, you're absolutely right to say it is not for some anonymous person to tell you where you're from or what you can or cannot say. If you were born here, and have dual British and Nigerian heritage, and therefore consider that you come from Nigeria, that is entirely your business.

I have never lived in little England, though but. Can I still describe people of mixed race as black if they and I are both over 30, or would I be better applying the Mind test?

 

[jæd]

It is older generations who still think that half-white = black. Certainly you won't hear anyone under-30 describing themselves as such.
And before anyone starts off with the "But I have a mixed friend who I call black/coloured and she doesn't mind". Just stop there. Most people do not enjoy going into long deep conversations about the politically correct term they would would like to be callled, especially in social gatherings with people that are not their nearest and dearest. It just isn't worth it.

I've heard of anyone under 30's or otherwise talk about mixed-race people as "black".

 

[jæd]

Whether or not you describe a mixed-race person as black, the fact is they are still half-white. End of.

Only if one of their parents was "white"... There's plenty of mixed-race people who have parents who are neither black, nor white.

And also, the whole "white" thing is a misnomer anyway.

Eg, I have two cousins. Due to their parentage (by the same parents) one would pass as "white" and the other as "indian", though they are neither. (And due to my grand-mother being high-spirited, I'm not 100% "white" either...

 

[Mind]

If you were born here, and have dual British and Nigerian heritage, and therefore consider that you come from Nigeria, that is entirely your business.

It's not really that complicated for someone to be from 2 countries and to claim one place on one occasion and the other next time.
Sorry if this is hard for you to digest.

I have never lived in little England, though but. Can I still describe people of mixed race as black if they and I are both over 30, or would I be better applying the Mind test?

You can call them whatever you want, if "mixed race" is just a bit much for you to accept.

Some people don't like being called black/coloured/mulatto/half-caste or whatever. They all have different reasons for doing this. Some are logical, others just a personal dislike.
However, you can never go wrong calling them mixed-race.
That's just the unbelievably simple point I was trying to make.

As usual, the thread has digressed from from the original topic,Lee Jasper.
You asked a question, I gave you my answer, and rather than disagreeing with my logic or talking about someone raised by a single white mother believes in a racially segregated society, you were more intererested in showing how I was an outsider without a license to talk about racial issues in London today.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'm sorry if I diverted the thread from the topic of Mr Jasper. He seems a rum cove and no mistake. It's just that your remark was very interesting and I wanted to know more.

Your "unbelievably simple" advice on referring to people of mixed race as mixed race, and not " black/coloured/mulatto/half-caste" was almost certainly well intentioned and is taken in that spirit. It is always thrilling to hear the latest thinking from the smart young people from London. We up here in the northern provinces of the empire will probably persist in our archaic use of the word "black" for the present, but I will pass on the new ideas from the metropolis. It will certainly offer a stimulating topic of conversation with the young folk during the long winter evenings.

 

[Blagsta]

I love it when someone claims to be able to speak for an entire group of people. Whether that be all black people, all mixed race people, all white people, all working class people, all middle class people etc.

 

[Ol Nick]

I love it when someone claims to be able to speak for an entire group of people. Whether that be all black people, all mixed race people, all white people, all working class people, all middle class people etc.

My mother was middle class while my father was working class. I prefer to be known as half-class.

 

[OpalFruit]

My thoughts upon reading the OP.

Well, think what you like - but when there is stuff in the press about equitable funding issues, you might think that some of us, who have lived and worked in Brixton for more than 20 years, might want to check out the truth closer to home.

Especially if we are working in a sector which is attempting to redress years of under-achievement and disaffection for young people.

I have not come across any activities by Brixton Base, seen any representatives at meetings, or any publicity, despite working in a field in which I would have expected to have some contact with them.

The self-important paranoia on these boards pisses me off sometimes.

 

[OpalFruit]

That has to be one of the most naive/delusional comments I've ever heard on the issue of public money. I can only assume that N1 Buoy is a personal friend of Lee Jasper.

The boards of decision making quangos, many large companies, charities regional authorities all over the UK are filled with politicians, ex-politicians, failed politicians and others who make their living off the public sector gravy train. We may all go through the competitive processes you are talking about, but the decision on who has won has already been made. It's the equivalent of being given the answers to the test beforehand and then claiming they sat the same exam as everyone else and won fair and square. BULLSHIT!


I can assure you that public money is very often given out on a nudge and a wink. Go to any Westminster bar in the evening and you will catch lobbyists and politicans making deals.
This story in the Evening standard yesterday just makes me sick to my stomach.
He earns £117,000 a year yet lives in a huge housing association property paying £90 a week!
There is a poor family living in an over-crowded bedsit right now because Lee Jasper wants to live it up.

Please spare me this drivel about him helping black businesses. There are thousands of black nurses, teachers and police officers living on the breadline while the carpet bagger claiming to represent them is living an extravagant lifestyle while doing NOTHING to help them!

I also know (from applications of my own) that whereas there will be publicly advertised funds which are decided upon accountably, there are also 'strategic' finds within the LDA, and end-of year spend-it-quick money which has been granted without process or accountability and certainly on 'advice' which may or may not be known as a 'nod and a wink'.

In fact I would have no difficulty with money being given to a specifically black business development cause, or on the specific initiative of an advisor - but I would then expect to see activity and outcomes as well as a watertight paper trail for all the expenditure.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Well, think what you like - but when there is stuff in the press about equitable funding issues, you might think that some of us, who have lived and worked in Brixton for more than 20 years, might want to check out the truth closer to home.

Especially if we are working in a sector which is attempting to redress years of under-achievement and disaffection for young people.

I have not come across any activities by Brixton Base, seen any representatives at meetings, or any publicity, despite working in a field in which I would have expected to have some contact with them.

The self-important paranoia on these boards pisses me off sometimes.

A poster with barely 300 posts yet joined in 2004 comes on with a post like the op about a current news story (and given the press' treatment of U75 in the past) and you're surprised?

 

[OpalFruit]

Well, no, having logged in almost every day and read the constant accusations of trolling and journos-in-disguise, no I am not, in all honesty, surprised - just pissed off!

And I am something of a wimp, and was accused of being a troll very very early on (for pointing out that on a thread condemning gentrification many, many posters had bill-paying knowledge of every new restaurant mentioned on the thread) so tend only to post factual observations and questions. Not sure what else we should discuss other than current news stories, of whatever status.

Anyway..lest another thread deteriorate into a discussion about the usual topics or inter-personal gripes, I will leave you to your own conclusions.

 

[lang rabbie]

There is a bigger question about just how much public money the London Development Agency (LDA) has put into abortive plans to develop Brixton and/or Kennington as a "Strategic Cultural Hub" for South London, and just what there is to show for it.

 

[lang rabbie]

A poster with barely 300 posts yet joined in 2004 comes on with a post like the op about a current news story (and given the press' treatment of U75 in the past) and you're surprised?

Before calling anyone a troll or a journo, I would have looked in a bit more detail at the breakdown of those posts, seen that they almost all relate to Brixton, and come to the tentative conclusion that (s)he might actually be a local

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Before calling anyone a troll or a journo, I would have looked in a bit more detail at the breakdown of those posts, seen that they almost all relate to Brixton, and come to the tentative conclusion that (s)he might actually be a local

They can't be a local or London based journo then (and I never called them a troll, no idea where you got that stupid idea from)?

Anyway, it was a genuine mistake and not one that requires another shit stirring busy body to rectify.

 

[OpalFruit]

There is a bigger question about just how much public money the London Development Agency (LDA) has put into abortive plans to develop Brixton and/or Kennington as a "Strategic Cultural Hub" for South London, and just what there is to show for it.

Yes indeed.

I know of a couple of organisations which were almost press-ganged into the Offley Rd building (they didn't go - not the right place) whilst what they needed was to expand a successful operation in central Brixton . But have found no available premises or active support from the council.

I wish these 'top down' agencies would concentrate on supporting what works already rather than dreaming up thier own projects.

KidEternity - no worries.

 

[hipipol]

Opal and Mind

You're (both) not worng
The boards are patrolled by tag teams of people who know best, and I am not referring to the mods!!!
The fact is that over 90% of people posting on here are white, middle class and many with jobs that give them the freedom to post on here in work hours. Very, very few were born in Brixton, ie most of those complaining about incomers, ARE incomers.( A lot also think Morrisey is rather good too but think Rome is too far to have to commute to the Albert)
The fact that they are so white and middle class makes them very tetchy should anyone challenge an established veiwpoint which tend to be a bit old skool Spartist levened with a desire for crap frothy coffee - fairtrade mind you!!!!!!!!!
I am white, male, born in Scotland, wear a suit to work etc so probably in Mr Jaspers (and others ) eyes I will have no right to comment, still I suspect I am less of greedy egotistical bit of shit than he is. He is the kind of person who damages all he touches because his own personal demeanour is so wholly loathesome that it is hard to remove the feeling of distate associated with him from the cause he is suposedly promoting.
As for whether he is corrupt, I doubt he has either the time (to busy with suit fittings no doubt) nor the intellect - he has been a target for years so if he really was mired in shite, surely twould already be out there - but I do think he would be prepared to shout for anyone who has his ear, and accuse of vile nasitness any who oppose him

 

[jonnieofbrixton]

the whole lee jasper crisis points to somthing that is wrong with 'huey long livingstone' and his loyal cronies,the usual denials will come from the current mayor,he will introduce his tried and trusted phrase of 'rascism'..and is jasper the only black man who is the 'contact on all levels' with the so called 'black community' for the weak and flawed mayor, if jasper is on 2large a week,how could he be renting a house for £90 a week,surely he would have taken advantage and bought it,bare in mind one thing,if it all goes wrong and plod try and asset strip,they cant get money out of a rented house,if the story runs and runs and it goes against jasper,crocodile tears livingstone will let him use the service revolver of resigning..with full pension,loyalty is so sweet,lee jasper speaks for an outdated mythical view of all things black,meanwhile the gla is advertising for an asian person to help with 'asian media'..it only pays £40.000,yep,fourty thousand quid a year,our trusted lee only works for over a hundred grand,he wouldnt get out of bed for less,and who can blame him,money for old rope,can anyone get me funding from the gla,i have a cunning plan....

 

[jonnieofbrixton]

i agree

 

[Gixxer1000]

the whole lee jasper crisis points to somthing that is wrong with 'huey long livingstone' and his loyal cronies,the usual denials will come from the current mayor,he will introduce his tried and trusted phrase of 'rascism'..and is jasper the only black man who is the 'contact on all levels' with the so called 'black community' for the weak and flawed mayor, if jasper is on 2large a week,how could he be renting a house for £90 a week,surely he would have taken advantage and bought it,bare in mind one thing,if it all goes wrong and plod try and asset strip,they cant get money out of a rented house,if the story runs and runs and it goes against jasper,crocodile tears livingstone will let him use the service revolver of resigning..with full pension,loyalty is so sweet,lee jasper speaks for an outdated mythical view of all things black,meanwhile the gla is advertising for an asian person to help with 'asian media'..it only pays £40.000,yep,fourty thousand quid a year,our trusted lee only works for over a hundred grand,he wouldnt get out of bed for less,and who can blame him,money for old rope,can anyone get me funding from the gla,i have a cunning plan....

Can someone translate.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

The Evening Standard publishes something "entirely untrue"?
Well you could have knocked me down with a feather...who'd've thunk it?

Jasper is not under investigation says GLA

Dec 7 2007

By Robertdex


A GROUP at the centre of allegations over the misuse of public money has said it will open its books to auditors in a bid to clear its name.

A report by the Evening Standard newspaper claimed Mayor Ken Livingstone's race advisor Lee Jasper is being investigated by the Greater London Authority after money was given to organisations he has links with.

One of them, Brixton Base Ltd, was alleged to have received £287,000 from the London Development Agency (LDA).

The LDA works with the mayor to promote the city's economy and cultural life.

The chairman of Brixton Base, which is based in Offley Road, Kennington, described the article as disgraceful.



Eroll Walters said: "We have requested the LDA to undertake a full forensic financial audit of Brixton Base in order to fully refute the allegations of ineffective utilisation of the public purse."

He added the group's board were consulting with solicitors about the article which appeared on Wednesday.

A spokesman for the GLA said: "It has been falsely reported in the Evening Standard that a mayoral advisor, Lee Jasper, is under a 'second investigation' by the Greater London Authority regarding his involvement in a project, Brixton Base, after a first one exornerated him. This is entirely untrue."

He added: "The suggestion that Lee Jasper can direct the London Development Agency to hand out money is false and the Evening Standard produces no evidence for it.

"All funds spent by the LDA are decided by London Development Agency staff via formal processes and Lee Jasper has no right to take such decisions even as a mayoral advisor."

A wider London Assembly investigation into how the London Development Agency funds cultural projects was published in November.

The investigation examined six projects in particular - but Brixton Base was not among them.

Its report found the LDA was "unable to demonstrate in some cases what it expected to get in return for its funding, did not adequately monitor the outcomes, and was unable to explain the criteria for some of its spending decisions".

London Assembly members said it was impossible to judge why projects were funded and what the LDA got for their money.

The South London Press tried to contact Lee Jasper but were unable to at the time of going to press.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

They keep repeating that investigation line despite the GLA statement. Thing is the only way to stop them is to sue and that's a little bit pricey even for someone on 100k a year...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

the whole lee jasper crisis points to somthing that is wrong with 'huey long livingstone' and his loyal cronies,the usual denials will come from the current mayor,he will introduce his tried and trusted phrase of 'rascism'..and is jasper the only black man who is the 'contact on all levels' with the so called 'black community' for the weak and flawed mayor, if jasper is on 2large a week,how could he be renting a house for £90 a week,surely he would have taken advantage and bought it,bare in mind one thing,if it all goes wrong and plod try and asset strip,they cant get money out of a rented house,if the story runs and runs and it goes against jasper,crocodile tears livingstone will let him use the service revolver of resigning..with full pension,loyalty is so sweet,lee jasper speaks for an outdated mythical view of all things black,meanwhile the gla is advertising for an asian person to help with 'asian media'..it only pays £40.000,yep,fourty thousand quid a year,our trusted lee only works for over a hundred grand,he wouldnt get out of bed for less,and who can blame him,money for old rope,can anyone get me funding from the gla,i have a cunning plan....

Ok the only thing I could get my head around was the bit in bold to which I'd ask: does Lambeth have a right to buy scheme?

 

[TopCat]

What's your point?

Lee Jasper is a opportunistic racist cunt.

 

[TopCat]

Surely if you're "half-white" that means you're black?

Does it? I must tell my mixed race kids that they are in fact, according to you, actually "black", they will be pleased to have this settled.

 

[Fidel]

In Brazil it's the other way round, if you're not fully black you're classed as white.

Brazil is famous for having more lables for not exactly white up to very very dark than any other nation.

 

[tim]

They can't be a local or London based journo then (and I never called them a troll, no idea where you got that stupid idea from)?

Anyway, it was a genuine mistake and not one that requires another shit stirring busy body to rectify.

Oh yes it does. You sound like the sort of pompous shit who could do with a good Christmas stir!

 

[Gramsci]

There is a bigger question about just how much public money the London Development Agency (LDA) has put into abortive plans to develop Brixton and/or Kennington as a "Strategic Cultural Hub" for South London, and just what there is to show for it.

Quite.I remember the Council going on about Cultural Hubs/Cultural Hubs and the like as a form of "regeneration".UR correct to say its the bigger question.The attention that characters like Jasper and Ken get is a distraction at looking at strategic failures.Not that some of Gilligans allegations have a ring of truth-that cronyism exists.I notice ex Commander Paddick now has backed up Gilligan in the Standard with his own personal experience of Jasper.Also Kate Hoey has taken up the issue of the Cab drivers school.The allegations are also of bullying and harassment.

I so think there is an issue around New Labour Cronyism.The Menzes affair left me astounded that Ken could back up the head of the Met(as he is New Labour friendly).Seems to me that those on the right who say there is a now established New Labour establishment network are correct.There arent any votes in Brazilians.