Has anybody ever reported a street dealer in Brixton?
- Thread starter nick h.
- Start date
There is an aspect of that ... but if "the community" as an entity decided it wanted to make life difficult for them, it could and would. The fact is that it doesn't. Those who do are a minority and would not get any back up from anyone else if they chose to do or say anything ... so they don't.
Maggie said there's no such thing as society (OK, I know she didn't actually say it, but it's what she believed and the basis for her government) ... there was then (well, some anyway), but she'd be right now ...
I know about it. They DO tackle street dealers. Regularly. The rest of my post explains why that doesn't have any permanent effect (and why, after a while, they sort of get fed up just going through the same old motions, especailly when they regularly get abused by passers-by during those efforts).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Detective_boy, i'm not quite sure what you mean when you say, firstly that there is no society, and then that the "community" in brixton chooses not to do anything about the street dealers. It doesn't seem like you see it as a laziness, but a conscious decision to accept it. And it sounds like you view this decision as a mistaken or "wrong" one to some extent. I'd be interested to hear why?
I can quite understand that in other parts of london, the same situation wouldn't be tolerated by the "community" (whatever that is if society doesn't exist any more) but isn't that just a reflection on the fact that different types of people tend to live in these other places?
What i'm saying is that i'm not sure whether to interpret your posts as a disapproval of the way the majority of people in brixton respond to the presence of the dealers, or whether you're just saying that the police have little real option but to go along with the local majority view. If it's the former, i would be interested to know how and why you feel the "community" should be reacting differently.
I can quite understand that in other parts of london, the same situation wouldn't be tolerated by the "community" (whatever that is if society doesn't exist any more) but isn't that just a reflection on the fact that different types of people tend to live in these other places?
What i'm saying is that i'm not sure whether to interpret your posts as a disapproval of the way the majority of people in brixton respond to the presence of the dealers, or whether you're just saying that the police have little real option but to go along with the local majority view. If it's the former, i would be interested to know how and why you feel the "community" should be reacting differently.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
I certainly don't like being harrassed with "skunk" whispered in my ear when I'm waiting for a bus, but there's very little I can do about it because you're right, they most likely are armed and I am not afraid to admit I fear them.
It's not just "mums with kids" that they are a problem to - they are a problem to any member of society just trying to go about their daily business and not use drugs - which, regardless of your own feelings about them, are still against the law.
The biggest problem is that they are very difficult to describe to the police as far as reporting them goes - "about 5ft 10, black, cropped hair, trainers, jeans and a leather jacket" would probably be about 50% of the crowd on any given time. The big problem is that none of the dealers *have* any distinguishing features - probably by choice - so they are almost impossible to identify.
The bigger problem is, unfortunately, that if the police decide to get tough with these dealer scum, they are likely to create more problems from the 'wider community' that use their services.
It's not just "mums with kids" that they are a problem to - they are a problem to any member of society just trying to go about their daily business and not use drugs - which, regardless of your own feelings about them, are still against the law.
The biggest problem is that they are very difficult to describe to the police as far as reporting them goes - "about 5ft 10, black, cropped hair, trainers, jeans and a leather jacket" would probably be about 50% of the crowd on any given time. The big problem is that none of the dealers *have* any distinguishing features - probably by choice - so they are almost impossible to identify.
The bigger problem is, unfortunately, that if the police decide to get tough with these dealer scum, they are likely to create more problems from the 'wider community' that use their services.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
They are drug dealers, lowlife, criminals.They are scum because they whisper "skunk" at you ?
The only place in Brixton for them is about half way up the hill on the right hand side.
People here wonder why Brixton has such a bad reputation? Crime and drugs. Get rid of the drugs, a lot of the crime will go. Things like the section between KFC and Iceland crawling with drug sellers in broad daylight are the things that contribute to this bad reputation that people seem to wonder why Brixton has.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
They are not a problem for me. Or for just about anyone else I know who lives around here.
Out of all the people or things that one might be "harassed" by during daily life in London, they are nowhere near the top of my list.
Perhaps you'd like to expand on your thoughts on how drugs and crime are related, and how removing these particular dealers from the centre of Brixton is going to impact on that relationship?
Do they really do you any harm though ?
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Personally, probably not ... but that isn't the point. I can just ignore them, but the simple fact of the matter is I shouldn't have to ignore and/or tolerate drug dealers dealing openly on a public street with no apparent fear of the consequences of their actions.
It's against the law, therefore it shouldn't be happening. Period.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The fact that, as you admit, it doesn't really do you any harm, suggests that the police are right in using their resources elsewhere. You need a pretty full-on police system to 100% enforce the law all the time and everywhere.
Perhaps you'd feel more at home in north korea.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
ajdown
Posting in this thread
How about living in a country where normal people can go about their business untroubled, and those who break the law are dealt with appropriately?
I have never been bothered by the police. I guess I don't look or act suspicious.
I'm not sure what your comment about North Korea has to do with anything.
Hillbillie
New Member
Thanks, thats about exactly where I live.
Being a "mum with kids", and having been a not mum without kids in brixton for many years, I have assumed most sensible folks ignore them. They must sell something vaguely half worth buying or they would have been beaten senseless long ago (many must ave been already), but most of us could get a better deal elsewhere if we wanted to do so. Therefore they are there to supply the "drug tourists" who Lambeth council have said they want to send a strong message to, by naming and shaming people on a website.... I always thought that selling drugs was illegal and the council could probably aspire to do better than naming people on a website, but this is the 21st centruy after all.
I'm not sure you can say this is a simple nimby issue just because they don't annoy you. Street dealing has an effect on both the people who live with it and (more importantly & radically) on the people who are forced by circumstance to do it (generally pretty low down the chain).
I've reported street dealers a couple of times. Notably a few times a couple of years back when the market was having a bad phase.
After a few weeks of having our gate busted in day after day me and my other half got woken up by an argument (which was about to break into something *far* nastier that anyone would like to witness) between dealers about 5" from our bed (there was a wall/window inbetween). We called the police.
Me and my neighbour were also threatened by a street dealer for opening our gate and therefore interupting a crack deal (on separate occasions) we both called the police.
Street dealing had been used by the authorities to justify some questionable stuff, but that doesnt turn it into a simple issue.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
I was actually referring to the prison, and inside it rather than outside.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
In a wider sense, yes. Gun and knife crime, violent robbery, burglary etc. The street dealing doesn't operate in a vacuum.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Plus it just makes me feel uneasy. I don't want to be arrested as 'possibly about to make a purchase' just because I turn round and tell them where to shove their skunk at the wrong time.
The only good thing about the drug dealers is that they generally just kill each other over 'territories' and don't drag innocent bystanders into it - but sadly there's usually someone else just waiting to take over the spot.
I would much rather the source of the problems that people turn to drugs was dealt with - but until that point, at least tackling the dealers and making it a little less easy to get hold of the stuff is a start. Unfortunately it's a much wider social problem than just being harassed in a bus queue.
mysterybadger
Well-Known Member
<i>go to station and report him</i>
I'm sorry but I can't help laughing at the image of all these coppers sitting around Brixton waiting for people to tell them where the drug dealers are.
"How are you spelling 'Kentucky', sir?"
The dealers don't bother me but mates getting mugged in the streets behind the Ritzy for drug money does.
That Brixton is "known" for drugs also attracts loads of tossers who can't find their own dealers into the area, so the problem becomes self-perpetuating. I'd start by harassing the drug tourists out of the area.
I'm sorry but I can't help laughing at the image of all these coppers sitting around Brixton waiting for people to tell them where the drug dealers are.
"How are you spelling 'Kentucky', sir?"
The dealers don't bother me but mates getting mugged in the streets behind the Ritzy for drug money does.
That Brixton is "known" for drugs also attracts loads of tossers who can't find their own dealers into the area, so the problem becomes self-perpetuating. I'd start by harassing the drug tourists out of the area.
You're wrong in your assumption. As I posted:
Some people can't be bothered, some sympathise with the dealers for a variety of reasons and there are many in between (some scared of doing or saying anything as Mrs M has subsequently pointed out).
I have no particular view of whether the "community" are wrong in their stance, nor did I post anything to suggest that. Why do you attribute that view to me?
One example: drug dealers fight over territories. Those fights come to the streets where they work. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire.
Another: drug dealers operating openly gives a strong message that criminal behaviour is acceptable here and the assumption is made that enforcement activity against any criminality is likely to be lower. This attracts other criminals to what they see as a "safer" area to operate.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It was just that the tone of this post felt like you were saying that people locally should do more to stop it:
Fair enough if you are just making an observation.
But you seem to be saying that:
1) you don't think street dealing is a good thing
2) the police can't do anything about it without the support of the local community
3) the local community don't/wouldn't give them that support
Which seems like placing the responsibility for the problem with the local community. And if your stance is that street dealing is a "bad thing" then, by implication, the community are doing the "wrong" thing in not supporting the police in stopping it.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Sure. But if removed from central Brixton, they are just going to go somewhere else, where someone else is going to get caught in the crossfire, no?
OK, this is a fair point, but is it not possible for the police to strike some sort of line where, for example, people are not regularly arrested for just selling weed, but, they do come down heavily on anything more serious within the same area, in order that the necessary message is got across?
For example, if they are causing hassle to people that live around there by blocking their gates or getting aggro with them (I do know people who have these problems), then the police should show up quickly and deal with it.
If the dealer 'scum' were cleared out of Brixton the brakes would be off for the dreaded gentrification. Most of my white friends won't come to Brixton because they think it's a dangerous ghetto. That's fine by me. The dealers and street drinkers are probably the main thing preventing Brixton from becoming the new Notting Hill.
If I had the good fortune to own a house in Brixton, I'd say 'clear the dealers out'. Because in ten years I'd be a millionaire and could retire to...wherever.
But I'm just a tenant, and I want the place to stay the way it is. Or preferably go back a few years to when there were more interesting bars and more edge. There are too many white pseudo-bohemians here already. (I'm one of 'em.)
I want the Effra to be full of Windy boys, not white football fans.
If I had the good fortune to own a house in Brixton, I'd say 'clear the dealers out'. Because in ten years I'd be a millionaire and could retire to...wherever.
But I'm just a tenant, and I want the place to stay the way it is. Or preferably go back a few years to when there were more interesting bars and more edge. There are too many white pseudo-bohemians here already. (I'm one of 'em.)
I want the Effra to be full of Windy boys, not white football fans.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Getting rid of the dealers would make Brixton vaguely pleasant, therefore it's a good reason to let them stay....?
I know I haven't been around these parts long, but that has to be the biggest heap of bollocks I've read so far.
If Brixton turning nice would upset you, I'm sure there are other shitholes around London that would gladly have you living in as another target for burglary, mugging, stabbing, shooting etc etc.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Sorry, but it's already happened gentrification-wise. I speak as someone who has lived here for over 27 years.
mysterybadger
Well-Known Member
Here's a thought: people steal money to buy drugs. With knives.
People on here might not want Brixton to turn into Notting Hill but how many deaths are you prepared to countenance so you can continue to live out your bohemian fantasies?
Gixxer1000
cant wheelie a shaftie :(
20 years ago maybe.Brixton isnt that trendy anymore,its all very middle class and comparitively safe.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
^^that was the full question - ie. how does moving it somewhere else solve the problem?
