harassment you've suffered from cyclists

[editor]

Kids on pavements piss me off. But nowhere near as much as the reckless, selfish behaviour of car drivers round here, playing their music at deafening music at 4am, throwing their shit of the windows, racing traffic lights, ignoring pedestrians at crossings, driving aggressively and generally giving it the big one around town.

In the city, pedestrians should come first, then cyclists and then cars.

 

[Hollis]

I think there's a genuine problem on canal towpaths. I've given up walking along Regents Park canal.. far too many cyclists cycling aggressively.. just makes the experience unpleasant. My mate who's a cycle courier agrees with me on this one. Also bad for people trying to walk their dogs.

 

[Spion]

In the city, pedestrians should come first, then cyclists and then cars.

That's a bit vague. How does that work? Do you mean pedestrians stick to footpaths and cars and bikes stick to roads and where they meet a mechanism (ie lights and crossings) is used to regulate flows according to commonly understood rules?

Or do you mean pedestrians can go where they like and cyclists and motorists must give way to them?

 

[editor]

That's a bit vague. How does that work? Do you mean pedestrians stick to footpaths and cars and bikes stick to roads and where they meet a mechanism (ie lights and crossings) is used to regulate flows according to commonly understood rules?

I mean that pedestrians aren't shunted in and pegged back by the roar of passing traffic and made to feel second class citizens to those in cars.

So more cyclepaths with fucking huge penalties for those wankers who park all over them. Better and safer cycle facilities. More pavement space for peds. Lights at busy crossings geared to give pedestrians more opportunity to cross.
Village/town plans with higher priority for pedestrians and cyclists.

There was a scheme in Holland (I think) where they removed all the railings, road signs etc and made the road surface on a parity with the pavement - this seemed to have a real effect of 'humanising' the public space with drivers giving equal priority to peds (with no green light telling them they could accelerate through, they tended to slow down and look out more).

I'll see if I can remember more about the scheme later..

 

[Belushi]

There was a scheme in Holland (I think) where they removed all the railings, road signs etc and made the road surface on a parity with the pavement - this seemed to have a real effect of 'humanising' the public space with drivers giving equal priority to peds (with no green light telling them they could accelerate through, they tended to slow down and look out more).

There was talk last year of doing the same with Exhibition Road in South Ken, don't know if anything will come of it but it would be an interesting experiment.

 

[zenie]

Were the dutch streets like the ones they have in Germany too?

Play Streets or something it is roughly translated.

The car was always at fault if there was an accidient so they drove a lot more carefully. Also had no pavements.

 

[Final]

I mean that pedestrians aren't shunted in and pegged back by the roar of passing traffic and made to feel second class citizens to those in cars.

So more cyclepaths with fucking huge penalties for those wankers who park all over them. Better and safer cycle facilities. More pavement space for peds. Lights at busy crossings geared to give pedestrians more opportunity to cross.
Village/town plans with higher priority for pedestrians and cyclists.

There was a scheme in Holland (I think) where they removed all the railings, road signs etc and made the road surface on a parity with the pavement - this seemed to have a real effect of 'humanising' the public space with drivers giving equal priority to peds (with no green light telling them they could accelerate through, they tended to slow down and look out more).

I'll see if I can remember more about the scheme later..

There's a bit about it here

 

[William of Walworth]

Will someone with more time, please find/ link to the prevuious (long) thread on General about cycling in cities, it was active reasonably recently. Started by someone who (correctly) was pissed off with a careless cyclist, but then, as PM is doing, smeared all cyclists with the faults of a (sadly conspicuous) few. Similarly polarised and depressing, that other thread. Have a look.

And I'm a cyclist who actually does shout out at red light jumpers and careless pavement cyclists -- things like 'Yeah, give us all a bad name, why don't you' or 'Stop at the lights like everyone else, make us all hated, why don't you'

This rarely has much effect (except blank incomprehension on the offender's part), but then my shouts are as much aimed at nearby pedestrians (such as PM?) and motorists, as at the ostensible target.

And PM, if you don't want to be accused of smearing all cyclists with the faults of a few arses, why not follow the editor's suggestion and add 'some' to the relevant sentance of your first post? It was perfectly obvious** what he meant! Your lack of care/specificness may offend ... was that the intention?

**At least, to anyone with a brain not addled by an addiction to nitpicking ... well that's what it looked like -- you don't do yourself any favours sometimes!

 

[William of Walworth]

I had my windscreen smashed by a bloke on a bike swinging a chain at me, and a man who was riding on a dark country lane with no lights tried to force my door open when we both got to a red light.

That's horrible but has precisely zero to do with the persons being cyclists as such.. See parallelpipete's post. The blokes sounds like they're psychotic.

It's hardly typical behaviour

Nail on head -- ANYONE, not least the vast majority of cyclists, would be (and are ) horrified by your story moose, but editor is absolutely right I'd say!

 

[William of Walworth]

Kids on pavements piss me off. But nowhere near as much as the reckless, selfish behaviour of car drivers round here, playing their music at deafening music at 4am, throwing their shit of the windows, racing traffic lights, ignoring pedestrians at crossings, driving aggressively and generally giving it the big one around town.

In the city, pedestrians should come first, then cyclists and then cars.

Parking in bus lanes as a few motorists do ...

Very common down Walworth Road.

 

[William of Walworth]

Years ago my brother and I were once walking on the pavement in front off the National Gallery when a cyclists came riding at full pelt through the crowd screaming for people to get out of the way, so my bro punched him off the bike as he went passed.

That makes him (your bro) almost as bad as them. How 'tough' of your bro though, I'll show him 'respect' shall I? **

People who assault cyclists, even bad, pavement riding cretins, are arseholes.


**I cycle on pavements almost never at all ever, so don't start. My point is only that one wrong doesn't justify a second one in retaliation

 

[William of Walworth]

There was talk last year of doing the same with Exhibition Road in South Ken, don't know if anything will come of it but it would be an interesting experiment.

AFAIK it's been abandoned for now.

 

[sleaterkinney]

so what sorry examples of fuckwitt'd cyclists have you, preferably involving some sort of insults &c being swapp'd.

Missing Ern are we?. Awwww

 

[William of Walworth]

Missing Ern are we?. Awwww

It certainly has that look to it.

 

[William of Walworth]

I think there's a genuine problem on canal towpaths. I've given up walking along Regents Park canal.. far too many cyclists cycling aggressively.. just makes the experience unpleasant. My mate who's a cycle courier agrees with me on this one. Also bad for people trying to walk their dogs.

That's a fair criticism. There was a debate raging about it in 'London Cyclist' not all that long ago. The sensible cyclists' arguments pissed all over those of the irrationalist 'we get shit from other road users [true] so that fully or partly justifies us doing ANYTHING' [bollocks].

 

[christonabike]

'Yeah, give us all a bad name, why don't you' or 'Stop at the lights like everyone else, make us all hated, why don't you'

If you shouted that at me I'd probably ignore you as I was concentrating on being a safe cyclist

Is it alright to trundle up to the lights, see nowt is around, and head on yer way, even through a red light?

There's got to be degrees, hasn't there?

Just read out what you said you shout out, and you've got to admit you'd sound a right spanner - no offence

 

[tommers]

I think there's a genuine problem on canal towpaths. I've given up walking along Regents Park canal.. far too many cyclists cycling aggressively.. just makes the experience unpleasant. My mate who's a cycle courier agrees with me on this one. Also bad for people trying to walk their dogs.

I did a thread about this on this very forum. it's here somewhere....

really annoyed me, that.

 

[Major Tom]

Is it alright to trundle up to the lights, see nowt is around, and head on yer way, even through a red light?

How many times have I ended up discussing this issue?

I feel that in some cases there's nothing wrong with cycling through red lights, and the law should reflect this as it does in other countries.

Some lights don;t even change for cyclists - requiring a heavier vehicle to be detected before the sequence is moved on.

I always give way to peds - let them cross first, then i go through behind them. I never attempt to cross a junction aginst the lights when there's traffic - it would be attempted suicide in most cases.

I only come into conflict with peds on crossings if they piss about. Some people who don;t look like they're about to cross walking past a zebra sometimes virtually fling themselves in front of me without looking. Some peds still think they have right of way on a pelican if the red man is showing.

Some people decide its safest to cross just as the lights change back to allow the traffic to move on.

In all the years I've been using red lights as advisory rather than mandatory i've never hit or intimidated a ped.

 

[Major Tom]

I think there's a genuine problem on canal towpaths. I've given up walking along Regents Park canal.. far too many cyclists cycling aggressively.. just makes the experience unpleasant. My mate who's a cycle courier agrees with me on this one. Also bad for people trying to walk their dogs.

maybe you're just too sensitive Hollis

i actually find myself intimidated by the pedestrians when i cycle on the tow path through Hackney. And I'm pretty careful not to intimidate or frighten anyone.

some people just panic as soon as they see a bike regardless of whether its even moving or not. The violent ones then try to hit me.

 

[Gavin Bl]

I think you're talking clear out of your arse; in my experience they are normally the safest thing on the road and rarely ever venture onto pavements or cause crashes.

genuinely hilarious.

 

[Alf Klein]

I have more problem from motorists on the pavement to be honest. I've been beeped out of the way while standing on the fecking pavement!!

And all those arseholes who leave their car fully on the pavement outside their houses, forcing pedestrians to walk along in the road. .

Fucking fuckers. This really pisses me off!

 

[Major Tom]

Fucking fuckers. This really pisses me off!

when i lived in colliers wood i used to enjoy it - walking along the middle of the road i lived in - going to shops, pub or whatever, when a car came along. It would drive along behind me for a bit, then it would beep its horn. I'd ask the driver what he'd like me to do, since there was no room on the pavement, driver would eventually be reduced to a string of expletives as I continued to walk along the road in front of him.

it would only add about 5 minutes to his journey.

i also took to trying to squeeze through the gaps left on the pavement which would set their alrms off and cause them to come running out to find out who kept setting their alarms off.

Finally I tried stickering their windsreens - with a polite, informative message. I enjoyed watching them trying to get the glue off the next morning when I left to go to work.

some of them actually got the message and stopped doing it.

 

[William of Walworth]

'Yeah, give us all a bad name, why don't you' or 'Stop at the lights like everyone else, make us all hated, why don't you'

If you shouted that at me I'd probably ignore you as I was concentrating on being a safe cyclist

Is it alright to trundle up to the lights, see nowt is around, and head on yer way, even through a red light?

There's got to be degrees, hasn't there?

Just read out what you said you shout out, and you've got to admit you'd sound a right spanner - no offence

None take (it probably reads worse to you on here than it sounds, to others, in real life).

But why are you attacking me? And not the real spanners on bikes (or in cars, on foot, too)?

It isn't me (or you) who's cycling dangerously and heightening hatred for us a group. I only ever do such 'outing' in really blatant cases of bad (ie AWFUL) cycling -- where there are crowds, children, some clear danger. I should have made that clear, sorry. What made you think I meant you? Guilty conscience perhaps?

There's plenty of those situations, and I'm sure you'll condemn them too. Not all of are angels on the road and I'm fed up with bad cyclists providing ammunition for cretins to attack us, hate us, blanketly tar us all with the same brush. Some cretins (either bad cyclists, or other people on the road) need to KNOW that 'we' are not 'all' the same.

You're seem to be ignoring the heightening of unpopularity factor, it gives us a lot of grief. So much easier to attack me as a 'spanner' eh? Rather than the REAL spanners??** Dangerous cycling by a significant minority IS a real issue affecting how others perceive us, its blinkered to ignore that.

**And YES I know that includes bad/awful/dangerous motorists, please don't assume I'm any friend of them either

I've been cycling regularly in London for over 23 years, btw. Every cyclist who ever goes without lights, cyclists recklessly on pavements, shoots light really dangerously, weakens our cause

Get your priorities right. Every one of those cyclists has some sort of excuse/mitigating factor to cover what they do, well some of those excuses are shit. Face it.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I saw a horrible incident in the west end last week, a woman on a bike was trying to get around the corner in Beak St and a van belonging to Addison Lee (the courier firm) almost took her out. I was really worried as she pedalled off up the road after him, yelling her head off, he nearly caused her some serious injury. I had 2 kids with me, so I couldn't really get too involved in case he started but I made sure she was ok and he wasn't going to hit her when she caught up with him. Bastard, he could have killed her, he mounted the pavement as she was taking the corner.

 

[William of Walworth]

I saw a horrible incident in the west end last week, a woman on a bike was trying to get around the corner in Beak St and a van belonging to Addison Lee (the courier firm) almost took her out. I was really worried as she pedalled off up the road after him, yelling her head off, he nearly caused her some serious injury. I had 2 kids with me, so I couldn't really get too involved in case he started but I made sure she was ok and he wasn't going to hit her when she caught up with him. Bastard, he could have killed her, he mounted the pavement as she was taking the corner.

Thank you, that's a horrid story, and it's good to see a non cyclist appreciating that danger is not all one way at all, and is more often likely to pose danger towards us than to come from us.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Thank you, that's a horrid story, and it's good to see a non cyclist appreciating that danger is not all one way at all, and is more often likely to pose danger towards us than to come from us.

If I had been on my own I would have chased the fucker with her as well. He was an complete idiot, he raced up the road so fast to get away from her.

 

[Major Tom]

weakens our cause.

not sure we have a "cause". I'm just interested in getting from A to B safely, quickly and by the means that I choose (bike).

Is that a cause?

Part of what I believe in is that sometimes it is safe for cyclists to pass through red lights, lights that are there soley to regulate motor traffic. The law should recognise this. By breaking the law in a responsible way here, I believe can lead to a law change. It certainly does for law-breaking motorists.

Another thing I believe is that cars should take due care and attention on the road. With the street lighting in London, cyclists are rarely invisible at night. Attacking cyclists who do not have lights is not acceptable. I've been caught short a few times, when batteries or bulbs have failed, or when I've had a light nicked. I don;t expect to be attacked for it.

Once when I was hit by a car in Mottigham, my rear light was smashed to bits. The bike was ok though, and as I set off to cycle home some wanker in lycra passed me and said - "where's your lights". Still shaking from the accident, he got an earful.

another time a woman drove into me - it was night time, she'd clearly seen me because she managed to drive into me deliberately. when I complained she pretended not to see or hear me. When I persisted, she launched into a tirade about cyclists with no lights, that she'd seen me and drove into me deliberately etc. And the worse thing was I DID HAVE LIGHTS, as required by law, red at back, white at front.

It's not always such a clear cut issue, William. Cyclists shouldn't be fighting each other while there are cunts in cars who treat our lives so cheaply.

 

[christonabike]

WoW

It was a sort of aside, not that serious, but I don't agree about weakening our cause

Because I am not part of your cause

And I don't feel I was attacking you

I was commenting on you shouting at someone you perceive to be a bad cyclist

It's the same with car drivers who comment, "don't red lights apply to you?"

If I can be bothered, I'll ask 'em if they get fed up saying that and to mind their own?

 

[lighterthief]

...Not all of are angels on the road and I'm fed up with bad cyclists providing ammunition for cretins to attack us, hate us, blanketly tar us all with the same brush. Some cretins (either bad cyclists, or other people on the road) need to KNOW that 'we' are not 'all' the same...

...Every cyclist who ever goes without lights, cyclists recklessly on pavements, shoots light really dangerously, weakens our cause

Spot on.

 

[toggle]

It's not always such a clear cut issue, William. Cyclists shouldn't be fighting each other while there are cunts in cars who treat our lives so cheaply.

]

however, when a cyclist puts people/'s safety at risk by riding recklessly down crowded pavements, or performing absolutely idiotic manouvers on the roads, you can loose allies.

Cyclists get your point, the people you need to convince are other road/pavement users. reckless cyclists are the ones that get noticed by these potential allies. they loose you support. and general support is what you need. The sooner it becomes as generally unacceptable to endanger cyclists as it is to walk naked down the middle of oxford street, the better.