Hamlet v Maidstone United, Tuesday 3 September 2019, National League South, ko 7.45pm

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Pink Panther, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    As opposed to people taking random photos of them? No real difference as far as I'm concerned. If people don't like being filmed just tell them to fuck off...they'll soon stop...
     
  2. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    Wondering if any Dulwich Hamlet fans were asked to be included in this montage?
     
  3. editor

    editor hiraethified

    So a large, coordinated professional film crew carrying around huge cameras on tripods - with some located pitchside - is much the same as a single long-term fan carrying a small camera to the game for the purpose of providing free match reports online?

    Rrrrrrright. Not sure you'll get many people to agree with that point but arguing pointlessly seems to be your thing these days.

    The big difference here - as you well know, because you've asked me yourself in the past - if anyone asks me not not to publish any pictures they're in, I always oblige - a courtesy not extended by this mob-handed film crew who have a habit of using long zoom lenses and fiming surreptitiously for that 'fly on the wall' docu-feel.

    And, of course, my photos aren't taken for the purpose of exploiting them commercially. I take them to help promote the club and you told me yourself that they certainly helped push up numbers in the early days. Perhaps you've forgotten that now that the crowds are bigger.

    Not sure what your suggestion that fans should start shouting abuse at these professional film crew members would achieve either, unless that's the kind of atmosphere you'd like to see at Hamlet games.

    Me? I'd just like to know what's going on and why I'm being filmed. How hard is it to post up here and tell them?
     
  4. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    Me? If I want to know something I tend to ask someone in person or one of the Club directors. You might want to try it, it's quite easy to get an answer...
     
    Jamie Wyatt and pettyboy like this.
  5. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Kraftwerk were fine with it, but Fabricant took some persuading.
     
    supersafari likes this.
  6. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I've asked loads of people at the ground and no one seems to know - as evidenced by posts from other fans here who have no idea what's going on. I don't have time to start chasing around after directors, but given that it's clearly a matter of concern to more than a few fans, how hard would it be to post up something and tell them why they're suddenly being filmed every week?
     
  7. Matt The Cab

    Matt The Cab Live it like you love it

    In the interest of balance & fairness I presume you obtain permission of all the subjects in your photo’s?
     
    editor likes this.
  8. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    No I don't...but them I don't moan about being in other things...
     
  9. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

     
    editor likes this.
  10. supersafari

    supersafari New Member

    “I’ll always hate my enemies -
    hoping they die before me.”
    - M.D. Morath (2019)
     
    Cyclodunc likes this.
  11. tonysingh

    tonysingh Random Clever and Witty Strapline

    In better news, the youth team took revenge tonight and brushed aside their Maidstone opponents 6-3 in the cup. :)

    IMG_20190905_192549.jpg IMG_20190905_200929.jpg IMG_20190905_190528.jpg IMG_20190905_191639.jpg
     
  12. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    Just been reading some of the complaints on here about the camera crew. I trained as a TV camera operator about 10 years ago so did similar stuff to what these guys are doing – if they’re making a documentary they’ll need lots of cutaways and reaction shots so it’s not unusual that they’re filming things like the fish and chip queue. That stuff will probably only make it onto the final cut for a couple of seconds, if at all, but it’ll all contribute to a general attempt to put across the matchday experience on screen.

    To be honest I don’t really get what people are complaining about – there are very visible signs all over the ground explaining that if anyone doesn’t want to be filmed, they just have to say. I’m not sure what more anyone would expect the club or the production company to do? And if the club aren’t telling people what the filming is for at this stage, it’s probably because they have an agreement not to do so until it’s properly announced.

    If this is something that is going to (a) earn the club some (presumably significant?) money and (b) raise awareness of the stadium situation, then surely they’re both very good things for DHFC and the slight annoyance of occasionally having a camera pointed at you is something that’s worth putting up with? Let’s not forget the bigger picture here: if/when we don’t get planning permission for the new ground, we’ll be staring homelessness in the face again, and when that happens a high profile documentary series highlighting what’s happening would surely be very, very welcome (if anything, I only wish this filming had started earlier, so they’d captured what Meadow did to us a year ago and the campaign that followed). The money would surely also come in handy.
     
  13. Dodger

    Dodger Active Member

    The main reason was brought up earlier in that a lot of us were first drawn to Dulwich as a means of escapism which will be lost if friends/family/colleagues can see us acting like animals in the champion hill zoo and not the respectable humans we portray ourselves as away from those glorious 90 minutes.
     
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  14. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I can honestly say I've never noticed any of these signs (I'm a season ticket holder so maybe there's none by my entrance) but seeing as there's no practical way to 'opt out' of being filmed, I think fans have every right to ask who is doing the filming and what the footage is going to be used for seeing.

    Personally, I think it would have been nice for fans to have been consulted about this beforehand seeing as it appears to be a sizeable ongoing commercial project.

    How does this filming help the 'stadium situation'?
     
  15. pompeydunc

    pompeydunc Well-Known Member

    All very interesting, but that's not why they are filming. It has nothing to do with Meadow or the ground development.
     
    EDC and editor like this.
  16. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    As I said, if the club ends up homeless again or in another battle with Meadow, then I'd think that a documentary or TV coverage would be helpful in highlighting the situation to a wider audience and raising the profile of the club's situation. I think it was pretty clear when we were thrown out of Champion Hill last time that media coverage of our situation was really beneficial.

    If you'd been "consulted" on the planned filming by the club would you have objected? If so, why? I just don't really see what the big problem with it is.

    So why are they filming? It's not for a documentary or TV series? I'm only going by what I've read online, as from what I can gather nothing has been said by the club (which had already been discussed on this thread).
     
    pettyboy likes this.
  17. editor

    editor hiraethified

    You don't find it just a little odd that a relatively small community club suddenly has a large professional film crew turning up announced for every single home match, with multiple cameras capturing close-up footage of the fans, while calls for an explanation go unanswered?

    Several people here have said that they're uncomfortable being repeatedly filmed for what presumably will be a commercially exploited venture - but you really can't see why anyone might be a little put out by the lack of information?

    If, for example, it turns out to be Sky Sports doing the filming, I will definitely be pissed off. Wouldn't you be as well?
     
  18. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    I don't find it especially odd that there would be interest in making a documentary about the club (if that's actually what's happening), no. Given the increased media interest in the club in the last few years, and what happened with the stadium, and the success of the BBC series about Salford City, and other football documentaries popping up on Amazon Prime and Netflix, I'd actually say it makes a lot of sense. And as I said previously, I'd imagine the club isn't offering an explanation about what's going on because there will be an agreement in place to announce it at a specific point - in which case I think the silence is understandable. But then again that's just me speculating, because like you I don't know.

    The people who are uncomfortable with being filmed should politely ask the camera operators not to film them and I'm sure they'll oblige, just as the signs around the ground say. I really don't know what more you can expect?

    I'm not a fan of Sky Sports but if it's them and they've offered the club a good deal for the rights, I wouldn't see it as the end of the world. At least it would be some money they're not pumping into the Premier League.
     
  19. Cyclodunc

    Cyclodunc Where's the slam tent, mate?

    Is this who I think it is?
     
  20. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Come on, you know that's neither practical or likely to happen when the camera operator could be zooming in from the other side of the pitch or doing some of that stealth 'fly on the wall' camera work.

    I imagine most people think they're just filming the game and may not be too happy to find their goal celebrations or exasperated shouts broadcast on national/international TV. The least the club could do is tell people what's going on.
    I don't want any kind of involvement with Sky Sports.
     
  21. jonesyboyo

    jonesyboyo Well-Known Member

    Maidstone match I asked one of the camera chaps who they were and if associated with the club? etc he said no, that they were making a vanarama documentary, think he implied it was about a few clubs, asked why dulwich and he said because of the community work, family ethic etc.

    Oh yes, he also said before they were a company based in milton keynes. Dont know if helpful info or not
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    editor likes this.
  22. MrFouldsy

    MrFouldsy Active Member

    Going full urban here, I don't know who you are blue heaven, because you are hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.

    What I would say is that you are conflating a number of different issues here.

    Me objecting to being filmed does not mean the death of the club.

    My main point is that as fans, we should be consulted on this kind of thing. There's a vehicle to do it in the Trust. Otherwise we become a commodification.

    You might think that an overreaction.

    It's pretty simply resolved by a bit of open dialogue.


     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  23. Cyclodunc

    Cyclodunc Where's the slam tent, mate?

    As mentioned, they were different to the ones who have been there all season.
     
    editor likes this.
  24. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    Life can be so simple if you actually ask questions....thank you.
     
  25. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    And if the club is in a position where it can't tell people what is going on? What should happen then? Should the people running the club have turned this opportunity down even if they truly believe that it is in the club's best interests?

    I know you've already responded to this from someone else but I do find it unusual that you seem to be one of the main objectors to this when you yourself are someone who, as I understand it, has spent many years photographing fans without their consent and putting those photos online. And I know you'll say it's not the same thing - but to me they're not a million miles apart either. And I do say that as someone who has really enjoyed your photography over the years and hope it continues.

    Fair enough, but everyone has their own ethics and everyone will have media companies and broadcasters who they dislike for one reason or another. Would Amazon Prime be OK with you? BBC? Netflix? Is there a list of good broadcasters and bad broadcasters just so that we all know whether or not it's OK to get on board? The club's only one promotion away from being in a league where some of its matches could be filmed and broadcast live on BT Sport whether the fans or the board like it or not.

    I don't know who you are either, so I guess that makes us equal. I think that's pretty normal on a forum. I'm just a guy who goes to watch his local team, presumably just like you. There's upwards of 2,500 people regularly going to Champion Hill these days so you can't expect to personally know everyone. If it's important to you I'd be happy to tell you my name, but I still don't think you'd know who I am even if I did.

    I don't think I'm unjustly conflating anything but feel free to debate otherwise. You know completely well that I never said objecting to being filmed will mean the death of the club, so let's not put words in people's mouths. Believe it or not I don't think you're overreacting either. If you object to it, it's not for me to devalue that and I'm sure your reasons are justified - all I'm doing is trying to understand why people feel that way, and put across my own differing view on it. We don't all have to agree.
     
    3010, Dulwich Mishi and Pink Panther like this.
  26. editor

    editor hiraethified

    There really is no comparison whatsoever between a long term (unpaid) fan of the club posting photos on a free local website and a large professional camera crew creating something for commercial exploitation. It's like comparing Streatham Rovers to Man Utd.

    I don't know how long you've been going to Hamlet, but to have multiple camera operators documenting both the fans and the football week after week is not part of the usual non league experience, and whatever the pros and cons of the enterprise, it seems reasonable that fans should be know what's going on and also be asked if they want to be featured or not.

    So you'd be happy for the club to be directly sponsored with Sky Sports?

    I'm not sure why a club would refuse to engage with their own forum, but seeing as you seem unable to read this...
     
  27. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    What’s the issue with Sky Sports?
     
  28. editor

    editor hiraethified

    The historic Murdoch connection. Never subscribed to anything he's been involved with.
     
    Moroccan Sunset likes this.
  29. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    You are against things he used to own?
     
    Jamie Wyatt likes this.
  30. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I have got so used to boycotting anything to do with Sky that I'll never give them money, plus there's plenty more to dislike about the company: Criticisms of Sky UK - Wikipedia

    Personally, one of the reasons that I like non league football is that it generally exists completely outside the pay TV world of Sky and mega-corp sponsorship deals and branding.

    I'd prefer to watch match highlights filmed and created by the fans (i.e. the fantastic DHFCTV). But each to their own.
     

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