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Hamlet v Maidstone United, Tuesday 3 September 2019, National League South, ko 7.45pm

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
Oh Kraftwerk popped along just after. They couldn't get in either because Wolfgang had blown the band's money on a new synthesizer.

They couldn't take their eyes off the film crew filming the film crew filming the chip van. Said they've got a new idea for a new concept album: The Trans-Europe Non League Chip Van, with key jangling percussion.

View attachment 183274
Oh Kraftwerk popped along just after. They couldn't get in either because Wolfgang had blown the band's money on a new synthesizer.

They couldn't take their eyes off the film crew filming the film crew filming the chip van. Said they've got a new idea for a new concept album: The Trans-Europe Non League Chip Van, with key jangling percussion.

View attachment 183274
Wondering if any Dulwich Hamlet fans were asked to be included in this montage?
 

editor

hiraethified
As opposed to people taking random photos of them? No real difference as far as I'm concerned. If people don't like being filmed just tell them to fuck off...they'll soon stop...
So a large, coordinated professional film crew carrying around huge cameras on tripods - with some located pitchside - is much the same as a single long-term fan carrying a small camera to the game for the purpose of providing free match reports online?

Rrrrrrright. Not sure you'll get many people to agree with that point but arguing pointlessly seems to be your thing these days.

The big difference here - as you well know, because you've asked me yourself in the past - if anyone asks me not not to publish any pictures they're in, I always oblige - a courtesy not extended by this mob-handed film crew who have a habit of using long zoom lenses and fiming surreptitiously for that 'fly on the wall' docu-feel.

And, of course, my photos aren't taken for the purpose of exploiting them commercially. I take them to help promote the club and you told me yourself that they certainly helped push up numbers in the early days. Perhaps you've forgotten that now that the crowds are bigger.

Not sure what your suggestion that fans should start shouting abuse at these professional film crew members would achieve either, unless that's the kind of atmosphere you'd like to see at Hamlet games.

Me? I'd just like to know what's going on and why I'm being filmed. How hard is it to post up here and tell them?
 

editor

hiraethified
Me? If I want to know something I tend to ask someone in person or one of the Club directors. You might want to try it, it's quite easy to get an answer...
I've asked loads of people at the ground and no one seems to know - as evidenced by posts from other fans here who have no idea what's going on. I don't have time to start chasing around after directors, but given that it's clearly a matter of concern to more than a few fans, how hard would it be to post up something and tell them why they're suddenly being filmed every week?
I've written to the club about the film crew. I share lots of the concerns written elsewhere.

I'll let the club do the talking on what its policy on filming at the ground is, rather than me incorrectly say something. I think it would be helpful all round for the club to do some proactive communication on this and explain to the fans what the filming is all about. On here, at the club and via the Trust.

I also hope that we will see some consultation with fans (particularly via the Trust) on what that policy will be going forward.
Agreed. I don't like them being there and I don't like the prospect of being on Netflix or Amazon tbh. Other people will feel differently I'm sure but for me it's eroding what attracted me to coming to watch the Hamlet originally to have that going on.
Personally speaking, I don't like the idea of our supporters being used like some form of performing monkeys but each to their own like.
Do we automatically give our consent to be filmed when we go to the ground now?.

And yeah, it is bad to commercially exploit the fans like this. Do the club have any say in the finished article?.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
Um, because I was sat at the back of the stand, recovering from a long bout of ill health. I did try to start a chant at the Cheater game, but nobody else joined in. And I’m not really a chant starter nowadays anyway, but I’d like to think I’ve more than done my bit on that score down the years on the Champion Hill terraces, mind you sometimes there were only a few of us back in the day & nobdoubt we looked like drunken oafs too.
Apart from simply ‘not getting any younger’ & not being as well as I was another reason I don’t like standing behind the goal & trying to join in or help to lead the chantingis that I’m at games to support my team & not feel like I’m acting like a performing monkey as there seems to be so many cameras pointed in your face, a phenomenon of the modern era at Chsmpion Hil.
Still, if you put yours down for a moment, I look forward to you joining in and leading a few chants yourself to drown out the ones you don’t like, or are you unable to practice what you preach?
To be honest, some opposition songs may seem boorish, but as long as they’re not too offensive then it’s not for us to police how they support our side, they are simply enjoying their day out in their own way...& some of them will remember the old Isthmian dayscwhen there was certainly no love lost between us & the Frenchies, last night was positively tame.
No I don't...but them I don't moan about being in other things...
 

blueheaven

Well-Known Member
Just been reading some of the complaints on here about the camera crew. I trained as a TV camera operator about 10 years ago so did similar stuff to what these guys are doing – if they’re making a documentary they’ll need lots of cutaways and reaction shots so it’s not unusual that they’re filming things like the fish and chip queue. That stuff will probably only make it onto the final cut for a couple of seconds, if at all, but it’ll all contribute to a general attempt to put across the matchday experience on screen.

To be honest I don’t really get what people are complaining about – there are very visible signs all over the ground explaining that if anyone doesn’t want to be filmed, they just have to say. I’m not sure what more anyone would expect the club or the production company to do? And if the club aren’t telling people what the filming is for at this stage, it’s probably because they have an agreement not to do so until it’s properly announced.

If this is something that is going to (a) earn the club some (presumably significant?) money and (b) raise awareness of the stadium situation, then surely they’re both very good things for DHFC and the slight annoyance of occasionally having a camera pointed at you is something that’s worth putting up with? Let’s not forget the bigger picture here: if/when we don’t get planning permission for the new ground, we’ll be staring homelessness in the face again, and when that happens a high profile documentary series highlighting what’s happening would surely be very, very welcome (if anything, I only wish this filming had started earlier, so they’d captured what Meadow did to us a year ago and the campaign that followed). The money would surely also come in handy.
 

Dodger

Active Member
The main reason was brought up earlier in that a lot of us were first drawn to Dulwich as a means of escapism which will be lost if friends/family/colleagues can see us acting like animals in the champion hill zoo and not the respectable humans we portray ourselves as away from those glorious 90 minutes.
 

editor

hiraethified
Just been reading some of the complaints on here about the camera crew. I trained as a TV camera operator about 10 years ago so did similar stuff to what these guys are doing – if they’re making a documentary they’ll need lots of cutaways and reaction shots so it’s not unusual that they’re filming things like the fish and chip queue. That stuff will probably only make it onto the final cut for a couple of seconds, if at all, but it’ll all contribute to a general attempt to put across the matchday experience on screen.

To be honest I don’t really get what people are complaining about – there are very visible signs all over the ground explaining that if anyone doesn’t want to be filmed, they just have to say. I’m not sure what more anyone would expect the club or the production company to do? And if the club aren’t telling people what the filming is for at this stage, it’s probably because they have an agreement not to do so until it’s properly announced.

If this is something that is going to (a) earn the club some (presumably significant?) money and (b) raise awareness of the stadium situation, then surely they’re both very good things for DHFC and the slight annoyance of occasionally having a camera pointed at you is something that’s worth putting up with? Let’s not forget the bigger picture here: if/when we don’t get planning permission for the new ground, we’ll be staring homelessness in the face again, and when that happens a high profile documentary series highlighting what’s happening would surely be very, very welcome (if anything, I only wish this filming had started earlier, so they’d captured what Meadow did to us a year ago and the campaign that followed). The money would surely also come in handy.
I can honestly say I've never noticed any of these signs (I'm a season ticket holder so maybe there's none by my entrance) but seeing as there's no practical way to 'opt out' of being filmed, I think fans have every right to ask who is doing the filming and what the footage is going to be used for seeing.

Personally, I think it would have been nice for fans to have been consulted about this beforehand seeing as it appears to be a sizeable ongoing commercial project.

How does this filming help the 'stadium situation'?
 

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
Just been reading some of the complaints on here about the camera crew. I trained as a TV camera operator about 10 years ago so did similar stuff to what these guys are doing – if they’re making a documentary they’ll need lots of cutaways and reaction shots so it’s not unusual that they’re filming things like the fish and chip queue. That stuff will probably only make it onto the final cut for a couple of seconds, if at all, but it’ll all contribute to a general attempt to put across the matchday experience on screen.

To be honest I don’t really get what people are complaining about – there are very visible signs all over the ground explaining that if anyone doesn’t want to be filmed, they just have to say. I’m not sure what more anyone would expect the club or the production company to do? And if the club aren’t telling people what the filming is for at this stage, it’s probably because they have an agreement not to do so until it’s properly announced.

If this is something that is going to (a) earn the club some (presumably significant?) money and (b) raise awareness of the stadium situation, then surely they’re both very good things for DHFC and the slight annoyance of occasionally having a camera pointed at you is something that’s worth putting up with? Let’s not forget the bigger picture here: if/when we don’t get planning permission for the new ground, we’ll be staring homelessness in the face again, and when that happens a high profile documentary series highlighting what’s happening would surely be very, very welcome (if anything, I only wish this filming had started earlier, so they’d captured what Meadow did to us a year ago and the campaign that followed). The money would surely also come in handy.
All very interesting, but that's not why they are filming. It has nothing to do with Meadow or the ground development.
 

blueheaven

Well-Known Member
How does this filming help the 'stadium situation'?
As I said, if the club ends up homeless again or in another battle with Meadow, then I'd think that a documentary or TV coverage would be helpful in highlighting the situation to a wider audience and raising the profile of the club's situation. I think it was pretty clear when we were thrown out of Champion Hill last time that media coverage of our situation was really beneficial.

If you'd been "consulted" on the planned filming by the club would you have objected? If so, why? I just don't really see what the big problem with it is.

All very interesting, but that's not why they are filming. It has nothing to do with Meadow or the ground development.
So why are they filming? It's not for a documentary or TV series? I'm only going by what I've read online, as from what I can gather nothing has been said by the club (which had already been discussed on this thread).
 

editor

hiraethified
If you'd been "consulted" on the planned filming by the club would you have objected? If so, why? I just don't really see what the big problem with it is.
You don't find it just a little odd that a relatively small community club suddenly has a large professional film crew turning up announced for every single home match, with multiple cameras capturing close-up footage of the fans, while calls for an explanation go unanswered?

Several people here have said that they're uncomfortable being repeatedly filmed for what presumably will be a commercially exploited venture - but you really can't see why anyone might be a little put out by the lack of information?

If, for example, it turns out to be Sky Sports doing the filming, I will definitely be pissed off. Wouldn't you be as well?
 

blueheaven

Well-Known Member
You don't find it just a little odd that a relatively small community club suddenly has a large professional film crew turning up announced for every single home match, with multiple cameras capturing close-up footage of the fans, while calls for an explanation go unanswered?

Several people here have said that they're uncomfortable being repeatedly filmed for what presumably will be a commercially exploited venture - but you really can't see why anyone might be a little put out by the lack of information?

If, for example, it turns out to be Sky Sports doing the filming, I will definitely be pissed off. Wouldn't you be as well?
I don't find it especially odd that there would be interest in making a documentary about the club (if that's actually what's happening), no. Given the increased media interest in the club in the last few years, and what happened with the stadium, and the success of the BBC series about Salford City, and other football documentaries popping up on Amazon Prime and Netflix, I'd actually say it makes a lot of sense. And as I said previously, I'd imagine the club isn't offering an explanation about what's going on because there will be an agreement in place to announce it at a specific point - in which case I think the silence is understandable. But then again that's just me speculating, because like you I don't know.

The people who are uncomfortable with being filmed should politely ask the camera operators not to film them and I'm sure they'll oblige, just as the signs around the ground say. I really don't know what more you can expect?

I'm not a fan of Sky Sports but if it's them and they've offered the club a good deal for the rights, I wouldn't see it as the end of the world. At least it would be some money they're not pumping into the Premier League.
 

editor

hiraethified
The people who are uncomfortable with being filmed should politely ask the camera operators not to film them and I'm sure they'll oblige, just as the signs around the ground say. I really don't know what more you can expect?
Come on, you know that's neither practical or likely to happen when the camera operator could be zooming in from the other side of the pitch or doing some of that stealth 'fly on the wall' camera work.

I imagine most people think they're just filming the game and may not be too happy to find their goal celebrations or exasperated shouts broadcast on national/international TV. The least the club could do is tell people what's going on.
I'm not a fan of Sky Sports but if it's them and they've offered the club a good deal for the rights, I wouldn't see it as the end of the world. At least it would be some money they're not pumping into the Premier League.
I don't want any kind of involvement with Sky Sports.
 

jonesyboyo

Well-Known Member
Maidstone match I asked one of the camera chaps who they were and if associated with the club? etc he said no, that they were making a vanarama documentary, think he implied it was about a few clubs, asked why dulwich and he said because of the community work, family ethic etc.

Oh yes, he also said before they were a company based in milton keynes. Dont know if helpful info or not
 
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MrFouldsy

Active Member
Going full urban here, I don't know who you are blue heaven, because you are hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.

What I would say is that you are conflating a number of different issues here.

Me objecting to being filmed does not mean the death of the club.

My main point is that as fans, we should be consulted on this kind of thing. There's a vehicle to do it in the Trust. Otherwise we become a commodification.

You might think that an overreaction.

It's pretty simply resolved by a bit of open dialogue.


Just been reading some of the complaints on here about the camera crew. I trained as a TV camera operator about 10 years ago so did similar stuff to what these guys are doing – if they’re making a documentary they’ll need lots of cutaways and reaction shots so it’s not unusual that they’re filming things like the fish and chip queue. That stuff will probably only make it onto the final cut for a couple of seconds, if at all, but it’ll all contribute to a general attempt to put across the matchday experience on screen.

To be honest I don’t really get what people are complaining about – there are very visible signs all over the ground explaining that if anyone doesn’t want to be filmed, they just have to say. I’m not sure what more anyone would expect the club or the production company to do? And if the club aren’t telling people what the filming is for at this stage, it’s probably because they have an agreement not to do so until it’s properly announced.

If this is something that is going to (a) earn the club some (presumably significant?) money and (b) raise awareness of the stadium situation, then surely they’re both very good things for DHFC and the slight annoyance of occasionally having a camera pointed at you is something that’s worth putting up with? Let’s not forget the bigger picture here: if/when we don’t get planning permission for the new ground, we’ll be staring homelessness in the face again, and when that happens a high profile documentary series highlighting what’s happening would surely be very, very welcome (if anything, I only wish this filming had started earlier, so they’d captured what Meadow did to us a year ago and the campaign that followed). The money would surely also come in handy.[/QUOTE
 
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Cyclodunc

Where's the slam tent, mate?
Maidstone match I asked one of the camera chaps who they were and if associated with the club? etc he said no, that they were making a vanarama documentary, think he implied it was about a few clubs, asked why dulwich and he said because of the community work, family ethic etc.

Oh yes, he also said before they were a company based in milton keynes. Dont know if helpful info or not
As mentioned, they were different to the ones who have been there all season.
 

blueheaven

Well-Known Member
Come on, you know that's neither practical or likely to happen when the camera operator could be zooming in from the other side of the pitch or doing some of that stealth 'fly on the wall' camera work.

I imagine most people think they're just filming the game and may not be too happy to find their goal celebrations or exasperated shouts broadcast on national/international TV. The least the club could do is tell people what's going on.
And if the club is in a position where it can't tell people what is going on? What should happen then? Should the people running the club have turned this opportunity down even if they truly believe that it is in the club's best interests?

I know you've already responded to this from someone else but I do find it unusual that you seem to be one of the main objectors to this when you yourself are someone who, as I understand it, has spent many years photographing fans without their consent and putting those photos online. And I know you'll say it's not the same thing - but to me they're not a million miles apart either. And I do say that as someone who has really enjoyed your photography over the years and hope it continues.

I don't want any kind of involvement with Sky Sports.
Fair enough, but everyone has their own ethics and everyone will have media companies and broadcasters who they dislike for one reason or another. Would Amazon Prime be OK with you? BBC? Netflix? Is there a list of good broadcasters and bad broadcasters just so that we all know whether or not it's OK to get on board? The club's only one promotion away from being in a league where some of its matches could be filmed and broadcast live on BT Sport whether the fans or the board like it or not.

Going full urban here, I don't know who you are blue heaven, because you are hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
I don't know who you are either, so I guess that makes us equal. I think that's pretty normal on a forum. I'm just a guy who goes to watch his local team, presumably just like you. There's upwards of 2,500 people regularly going to Champion Hill these days so you can't expect to personally know everyone. If it's important to you I'd be happy to tell you my name, but I still don't think you'd know who I am even if I did.

What I would say is that you are conflating a number of different issues here.

Me objecting to being filmed does not mean the death of the club.

My main point is that as fans, we should be consulted on this kind of thing. There's a vehicle to do it in the Trust. Otherwise we become a commodification.

You might think that an overreaction.

It's pretty simply resolved by a bit of open dialogue.
I don't think I'm unjustly conflating anything but feel free to debate otherwise. You know completely well that I never said objecting to being filmed will mean the death of the club, so let's not put words in people's mouths. Believe it or not I don't think you're overreacting either. If you object to it, it's not for me to devalue that and I'm sure your reasons are justified - all I'm doing is trying to understand why people feel that way, and put across my own differing view on it. We don't all have to agree.
 

editor

hiraethified
I know you've already responded to this from someone else but I do find it unusual that you seem to be one of the main objectors to this when you yourself are someone who, as I understand it, has spent many years photographing fans without their consent and putting those photos online. And I know you'll say it's not the same thing - but to me they're not a million miles apart either. And I do say that as someone who has really enjoyed your photography over the years and hope it continues.
There really is no comparison whatsoever between a long term (unpaid) fan of the club posting photos on a free local website and a large professional camera crew creating something for commercial exploitation. It's like comparing Streatham Rovers to Man Utd.

I don't know how long you've been going to Hamlet, but to have multiple camera operators documenting both the fans and the football week after week is not part of the usual non league experience, and whatever the pros and cons of the enterprise, it seems reasonable that fans should be know what's going on and also be asked if they want to be featured or not.

Fair enough, but everyone has their own ethics and everyone will have media companies and broadcasters who they dislike for one reason or another.
So you'd be happy for the club to be directly sponsored with Sky Sports?

Life can be so simple if you actually ask questions....thank you.
I'm not sure why a club would refuse to engage with their own forum, but seeing as you seem unable to read this...
I've written to the club about the film crew. I share lots of the concerns written elsewhere.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
There really is no comparison whatsoever between a long term (unpaid) fan of the club posting photos on a free local website and a large professional camera crew creating something for commercial exploitation. It's like comparing Streatham Rovers to Man Utd.

I don't know how long you've been going to Hamlet, but to have multiple camera operators documenting both the fans and the football week after week is not part of the usual non league experience, and whatever the pros and cons of the enterprise, it seems reasonable that fans should be know what's going on and also be asked if they want to be featured or not.

So you'd be happy for the club to be directly sponsored with Sky Sports?

I'm not sure why a club would refuse to engage with their own forum, but seeing as you seem unable to read this...
What’s the issue with Sky Sports?
 

editor

hiraethified
You are against things he used to own?
I have got so used to boycotting anything to do with Sky that I'll never give them money, plus there's plenty more to dislike about the company: Criticisms of Sky UK - Wikipedia

Personally, one of the reasons that I like non league football is that it generally exists completely outside the pay TV world of Sky and mega-corp sponsorship deals and branding.

I'd prefer to watch match highlights filmed and created by the fans (i.e. the fantastic DHFCTV). But each to their own.
 
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