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Hamlet v Dartford (Isthmian League) Saturday 29th March 2025

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In photos: another depressing defeat at Champion Hill as Dulwich Hamlet get thumped by Dartford, Sat 29th March 2025


In photos: another depressing defeat at Champion Hill as Dulwich Hamlet get thumped by Dartford, Sat 29th March 2025


In photos: another depressing defeat at Champion Hill as Dulwich Hamlet get thumped by Dartford, Sat 29th March 2025


In photos: another depressing defeat at Champion Hill as Dulwich Hamlet get thumped by Dartford, Sat 29th March 2025


In photos: another depressing defeat at Champion Hill as Dulwich Hamlet get thumped by Dartford, Sat 29th March 2025


 
To be fair to the players, they are now quite diligent about doing a lap applauding the fans.
Unfortunately, they are also very bad at winning football matches.
Think it’s a pretty good indicator of where the club / player / supporter relationship is, that the players remembering to regularly acknowledge the supporters existence is a positive step.

We seemingly have a deficit of players who are willing to lead, step up when it’s tough, and take responsibility for lifting the team and supporters.

Trying to think of the last team that had that profile of strong leadership - likely the promotion squad with Edwards / Beaney / Kargbo / Weatherstone / Hayles / Tomlin?
 
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Case in point of how far behind we currently are as a club (apologies for linking to X, couldn’t find Peter Adeniyi anywhere else).

I think the decline and ultimate loss of the youth academy is a big factor in our demise in first team stature, although latterly it wasn't producing players to become real first teamers, which is perhaps part of the reason the Gavin Rose era ended so ignominiously. It's a massive leap from academy to National South at a club like ours, but even in the previous spell in the Isthmian Premier Division we weren't bringing players through, so my conclusion is that the Aspire academy wasn't really fit for purpose in the end.

Peter Adeniyi seems to favour younger unknown players, while using the Gavin Rose formula of bringing in a few trusted older players he's worked with before, like Sanchez Ming and Fabio Saraiva. I'm not sure whether they have a skinny budget or he's just not comfortable managing the higher profile players. Gavin seemed to lose his way when he was given a bigger budget and started signing lots of players from higher placed clubs each summer, who were effectively stepping down to play for us, even if only within the same division.

The Dartford squad for this game included 3 recent former youth team players (Olly Box, Sam Odaudu, George Whitefield) in the starting XI and another 2 (Jeremiah Pinder, Joseph Kpaka) on the bench, and they're top of the league. They also had Michael Olarewaju, a Hamlet youth team graduate around a decade ago who didn't establish himself with us, then left to join one of Hayden Bird's Gavin Rose tribute squads at Merstham. We had Michael Chambers, who is now aged 30 and has left twice before returning.

National South almost feels like a franchise competition. There's an annual merry-go-round of players switching between similar clubs for the best one year contract they can get, and this league is getting more like it each year amongst the top clubs who have most of their squad under contract, as we do. A large percentage of our current players seem to have played for at least one of Billericay, Dartford or Maidstone, yet all those clubs are much better off than us with the players they now have.

As a supporter, I've found it hard to feel any real affection for most of the players the club has signed since the promotion season. Ask me to name a best XI from the 5 National South seasons and I think I'd really struggle to come up with anyone out of the ordinary for a few positions. I dare say the majority of this season's will have departed by August, and I guess we may also have yet another manager by then, given that Brad's position seemed to be left open ended by mutual agreement when he arrived. Frankly I'm not in a position to evaluate the extent to which he is hamstrung by the players he's inherited, or whether he could reasonably have been expected to get more out of them, but that decision will need to be taken promptly at the end of this month. (Assuming he wants to continue of course.) It must not be allowed to drift for half the summer like it did when Gavin was eventually given that fateful 14th season, only to be sacked 7 games in after 4 consecutive defeats.
 
I lost a lot of my enthusiasm for the club some time ago, but still try to make the evening games and some away games, which can still be fun. And I'll continue to do my best to promote the club because I'm grateful for the amazing times I've had there in the past.

The thing I realised after the Cardiff City/Vincent Tan debacle is that I've reached an age where my loyalty starts getting offset by the question: "Am I actually enjoying this experience? And if not, why the hell am I doing it?"

I definitely don't enjoy being part of an uncomfortably large crowd where I daren't go to the loo or grab a bite because I'll end up losing my vantage point and, like others here, I don't like being surrounded by people who seem to come to the club to loudly talk about their jobs, japes and holidays and barely watch or interact with the game

So most Saturdays, I watch Peckham Town instead.

And that's not because they're winning - in fact they're having a disastrous season every bit as bad as Hamlet's - but because I just found myself getting wound up at Champion Hill on the Saturday matchdays.

The whole point of non league (to me, anyway) is being able to rock up just before kick off, wander about the ground and chat to random fans, and feel like you're actually making some sort of tangible difference by being there. And for the players to appreciate your presence.

I probably sound like one of those blokes who moans about how much better a now-successful band's smaller, first gigs were, but I fucking love football and I guess I've realised that bigger is absolutely not best for me.
That's all fair enough, and when you've moved around the country and lived in different towns with attachments to different local clubs it's probably a bit easier to find another one that feels like a better fit. Personally I've always lived within a 3 mile radius of Champion Hill and this club is simply too big a part of my life to walk away. I have my season ticket and I don't think I've missed a home league game by choice for 15 years now. Enthusiasm for away games and cup ties does wane in a season like this, though. I think I've done fractionally below 50% of away games since relegation, whereas I only missed 3 in the first National South season (Woking, Torquay, Chippenham) primarily due to financial constraints. Right now I've seen 2 away wins since January 2023 (at Margate last season and Potters Bar last month) and I'd rather just visit some new grounds somewhere different every once in a while.

The last decade was the best I've ever experienced at the Hamlet. The symbolic start of it for me was the 5-1 win at Leatherhead in the League Cup semi-final in March 2011, triggering our late promotion charge that ended in agonising defeat at the same ground in the play-off final a couple of months later. Although we also lost the League Cup Final (2-0 to Wingate & Finchley at Met Police) the number of lapsed supporters who returned for that game, and kept coming back along with the growth of entirely new support, was another amazing catalyst. The symbolic end was the Carlisle FA cup defeat in November 2019, followed by the tragic premature death of Mishi only a month later. The club has never felt quite the same since for me.

However, most of the seasons from 1980-2000 were much like the last few, invariably losing more games than we won but with much smaller crowds and without the expectation that it really ought to be better. The first decade of this century was purgatory, marooned in the Isthmian South Division, when the occasional cup tie north of the Thames was an exotic treat and promotion challenges were few and far between, while attendance figures often dipped below 200. On balance, now is still better than then.
 
That's all fair enough, and when you've moved around the country and lived in different towns with attachments to different local clubs it's probably a bit easier to find another one that feels like a better fit. Personally I've always lived within a 3 mile radius of Champion Hill and this club is simply too big a part of my life to walk away.
Oh I totally understand that. I never thought I'd give up on Cardiff City - not only was I regularly going up and down the country to watch them play, I was also running one of their most popular fanzines, so it's fair to say that I was heavily invested in the club.

But it was a combination of things - like being told to sit down at Wembley, the rising costs, the treatment from the police, the bubble games, the new stadium and finally the Vincent Tan strip and badge change that made me realise I wasn't enjoying it anymore.

Hamlet was a perfect fit for me from 2012 onwards - I had some of the best times I've ever had at football - but as the club has got more popular, the fun factor crashed to the point when I'm only an occasional visitor, at least for now.
 
But it was a combination of things - like being told to sit down at Wembley, the rising costs, the treatment from the police, the bubble games, the new stadium and finally the Vincent Tan strip and badge change that made me realise I wasn't enjoying it anymore.

Hamlet was a perfect fit for me from 2012 onwards - I had some of the best times I've ever had at football - but as the club has got more popular, the fun factor crashed to the point when I'm only an occasional visitor, at least for now.
I think that litany of changes for the worse at Cardiff would probably have been enough to push me away from being a regular attender at a club of that size and level too.

The crowd sizes are not ideal at the Hamlet. Standing terraces are best when half to two thirds full, with the extra capacity accommodating more for the biggest games in the best seasons. Having them consistently packed while mediocre dross is being served up on the pitch is a bizarre lose-lose situation for many, and I can understand why some have become disillusioned with that.

The Meadow lockout either side of the second promotion somehow pushed attendances into orbit. Most afternoon games were pulling 1,500-2,000 until then, with the odd one hitting 2,500. Suddenly it was 3,000+ with people turned away as soon as we returned, and it's somehow stayed at that level for 6 years despite never achieving more than mid-table mediocrity over a whole season. We must now have hundreds of regular supporters who've never seen a half-decent Hamlet side and don't know any different.

A dire season used to engender a kind of siege mentality amongst the hardcore, enduring thin and thinner while the fairweather supporters melted away. There was a determination to keep going until you were finally rewarded with that elusive win. Now it's beginning to feel like a footballing version of Harry Enfield's "I Saw You Coming" sketches, where more people keep coming the worse it gets!
 
I think that litany of changes for the worse at Cardiff would probably have been enough to push me away from being a regular attender at a club of that size and level too.

The crowd sizes are not ideal at the Hamlet. Standing terraces are best when half to two thirds full, with the extra capacity accommodating more for the biggest games in the best seasons. Having them consistently packed while mediocre dross is being served up on the pitch is a bizarre lose-lose situation for many, and I can understand why some have become disillusioned with that.

The Meadow lockout either side of the second promotion somehow pushed attendances into orbit. Most afternoon games were pulling 1,500-2,000 until then, with the odd one hitting 2,500. Suddenly it was 3,000+ with people turned away as soon as we returned, and it's somehow stayed at that level for 6 years despite never achieving more than mid-table mediocrity over a whole season. We must now have hundreds of regular supporters who've never seen a half-decent Hamlet side and don't know any different.

A dire season used to engender a kind of siege mentality amongst the hardcore, enduring thin and thinner while the fairweather supporters melted away. There was a determination to keep going until you were finally rewarded with that elusive win. Now it's beginning to feel like a footballing version of Harry Enfield's "I Saw You Coming" sketches, where more people keep coming the worse it gets!
All of this is undoubtedly true, but personally I'm optimistic that we'll one day look at this period as a weird historical blip where we were cramming massive crowds into a tiny unsuitable stadium to not-be-able-to watch terrible football.

It's been far, far longer than anyone would like, but I'm pretty confident that the new stadium will solve most (if not all) of the problems that are clearly starting to grind everyone down.

EDIT: I don't think the club has data on this, but I'd love to know how many unique individuals come through the turnstiles each season. I have a suspicion that the extent of our casual "fanbase" (ie people who've been at least once) is absolutely, staggeringly enormous.
 
EDIT: I don't think the club has data on this, but I'd love to know how many unique individuals come through the turnstiles each season. I have a suspicion that the extent of our casual "fanbase" (ie people who've been at least once) is absolutely, staggeringly enormous.
That's pretty much what I think too, and I suspect that it might be unwise to grow too dependent on what seems like an unlimited supply of these one-visit folks.
 
I remember someone from the club saying to me a couple of years ago that they had some indicator a surprisingly large chunk of the gate was irregular attenders. Those were then broken down into three categories. Firstly one off visitors who have seen about the club online and come to see what it's all about, and secondly groundhoppers. However those numbers were small in comparison to the number of locals who pick and choose occasional matches, rather than one off visits.

TBH we should be very grateful to them. If the lower Saturday and Tuesday gates were the norm, the current economic model would probably implode.
 
From the number of people who come to the shop every week and say it's their first time, to the people I meet through work etc who've been, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who'd been to Champion Hill at least once in the last ten years went into 6 figures, which is crackers really.
 
After being a regular for the best part of 50 years ive seen one game in the last 2 seasons. Whilst other things have taken over Ive had free Saturdays where going to Dulwich just isnt appealing anymore. The club has lost its identity for me. Its based in South London (where a disproportionate amount of Premier League players originate from) Seeing PPs post about youth players playing for Dartford hits a nerve. How are we letting these players go? When Aspire was linked the players came through and the South London connection was strong, now we seem to have players launched in from anywhere, whilst other clubs are getting the benefit of the South London boys. Once we were the envy of clubs as we increased attendances whereas now we have a 'model' (although im not sure what that is) noone wants to follow. Get back to the roots get someone from or connected to South London in, get out into the cages and mix vibrant youth with experience. We should not be 1 off the relegation places yet here we are
 
Simplistically the financial model, which is what I referred to, is to keep admission prices relative low, especially for youngsters. Better to get a bit off lots of people than more off not many. Once someone is in then look to maximise per capita expenditure in the ground by ensuring the offering matches what people want, not what the club wants as is all too common in non-league

Farnham Town openly state they based their very successful revitalisation strategy around a mixture of Dulwich Hamlet & Walton & Hersham. Anyone who visits Farnham will be able to spot the bits they took from Hamlet a mile off. Farnham sometimes put surprisingly full financial info into the public domain, their per capita expenditure has shot up in the past three seasons. The Farnham owner was at the women's match between the two clubs to have another look at Hamlet's methodology / offering. Farnham's methodologies are now being studied by lots of clubs. And so it continues...

The youth comment is inarguable. The club are aware and I believe plans are being worked. No idea what they are though. Watch this space as they say.
 
Simplistically the financial model, which is what I referred to, is to keep admission prices relative low, especially for youngsters.

It costs £12 for an adult ticket at Hamlet which doesn't seem particularly cheap compared to, say, the top four teams in the league.

Dartford £15
Billericay £12
Horsham £13
Cray Valley £12
 
Simplistically the financial model, which is what I referred to, is to keep admission prices relative low, especially for youngsters. Better to get a bit off lots of people than more off not many. Once someone is in then look to maximise per capita expenditure in the ground by ensuring the offering matches what people want, not what the club wants as is all too common in non-league

Farnham Town openly state they based their very successful revitalisation strategy around a mixture of Dulwich Hamlet & Walton & Hersham. Anyone who visits Farnham will be able to spot the bits they took from Hamlet a mile off. Farnham sometimes put surprisingly full financial info into the public domain, their per capita expenditure has shot up in the past three seasons. The Farnham owner was at the women's match between the two clubs to have another look at Hamlet's methodology / offering. Farnham's methodologies are now being studied by lots of clubs. And so it continues...

The youth comment is inarguable. The club are aware and I believe plans are being worked. No idea what they are though. Watch this space as they say.
Apologies i wasnt referring to the model you had mentioned. It was simply a phrase about how the club operates
 
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