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Hamas leader son condemns Hamas ..

Tangent: Well I am sure that you have found out that what I have told you is quite accurate and will not push it but I am a bit confused at your suggestion for another thread. A thread on hate groups? I am not sure what form that would or should take...let alone in this forum . I am certainly open to ideas if you wish to speak further on it.

Also, if you want me to post more info on that nasty group, let me know. I love their cartoonist and his Protocols cartoons, they are worth a laugh or three. I cannot say I enjoyed their founder Bird talking at the Institute of Historical Review (I only have the transscripts of course, I would not actually go to one of their mindfuc%ed gatherings). What was it Bird said? "I agree with the thesis of this organisation"? What nonsense, a Holocaust Denier dressed in a suit, how passe.

Let me know if you want info on them, I am pretty disgusted just talking about anything having to do with Weir and her roving band of nutters.
 
The longer people are forced to live their lives under occupation, in squalid ghettoes, and attacked at will by one of the most powerful militaries in the world the more easily they will fall prey to ideologues that offer simple, but brutal extreme solutions.

Extreme situations produce extreme answers.

You reap what you sow.
 
Tangent: Well I am sure that you have found out that what I have told you is quite accurate and will not push it but I am a bit confused at your suggestion for another thread. A thread on hate groups? I am not sure what form that would or should take...let alone in this forum . I am certainly open to ideas if you wish to speak further on it.

Also, if you want me to post more info on that nasty group, let me know. I love their cartoonist and his Protocols cartoons, they are worth a laugh or three. I cannot say I enjoyed their founder Bird talking at the Institute of Historical Review (I only have the transscripts of course, I would not actually go to one of their mindfuc%ed gatherings). What was it Bird said? "I agree with the thesis of this organisation"? What nonsense, a Holocaust Denier dressed in a suit, how passe.

Let me know if you want info on them, I am pretty disgusted just talking about anything having to do with Weir and her roving band of nutters.
I'm still waiting for evidence from you:

* that former US ambassador Richard Viets is a neo nazi
* that the US Council for National Interest is neo nazi

* Please also explain why you mentioned David Duke in connection to an Agence France Press article on a former US amabassador's trip to the WB.

* Also please let us know why Alison Weir is a 'nutter'

You said all this in response to an article Tangentlama posted. http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=7889835&postcount=9

It could look like you were simply trying to smear the article s/he posted rather than engage with the issues it raised, namely why Hamas should be talked with.

So, to dispel the impression forming that you are simply using smear tactics to further your own political agenda, please elaborate on the issues re neo-nazis etc that you raised.

And please provide links to 3rd party sources on all of this rather than your own, rather partial, narrative. If former US ambassadors are neo-nazis it will have made the mainstream press, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding evidence.
 
Spion: No offence but I do not recall the part where i gladly offered, or offered at all to jump therough hoops for you. If you want to believe he is the G-D of all G-Ds please, by all means, do so. Fact is, he was a fool who was unmasked when he tried for his second gig, as Ambassador to Portugal. Never made it out of the Senate owing to his glorious unAmerican service for the Hashemites.

He is one of the IAK dual board members, all of which are formerly employed in the Arab World interestingly. I would not know if Viets himself were a Nazi but do know for a fact that he is closely involved with Neo-Nazi causes (see IAK, CNI, and its sister organisation).

As I described in posting to Tangent in my last post, Bird who is the co-founder of CNI anbd a dual board member of IAK is also a member of IDR, hgas apperaed on stage with such illustrious characters as Ernst Zundl, and every other Nazi on their list and as stated, publicly stated his agreement with their main objective (i.e. "proving ther Holocaust to be a hoax").

Viet is also among the ex-statesmen of all 3 groups who blames the "Jewish Lobby (not Israeli or Zionist mind you)" for his dismal career in politics. As they say, "The 700 Pound Gorilla!" Oooooh, I love the trailer! Pass them bananas Cletus!

He has not agreed with Bird though as far as I know in saying "Jews control the media." Still, in saying Jews have been his political downfall he pretty much does not need to say another word. "Rachamim, could we have you offer annotated sources in 9 languages attesting to this character assasination? I mean, were an Ambassador truly guilty of such things it would make front page news!"

OR, on the other hand people probably find it run of the mill given the era in which most of his nonsense transpired (He was in govt. employ from 81 to 84 I believe and that was the height of the Reganomics hijinks although not as flashy as Lewinskygate, another "Jeiwhs ploy" as some would tell it).


This is really old stuff Spion and I am afraid you will be left to your own devices if you really want 50 sources. As I said earlier, when I trashed G for iniating a thread using an IAK Op-Ed piece I went very in depth and that includes unmasking Viets (who of all things seems to have married a Jew, or is it a "Jewess"? Better ask Professor Semantics!).

As for it having made the press, although I do not rely on my info here from the press I am sure it did as Weir is rather well known in America, and ostracised from civilised society.
 
Poor Rachamim and his obsession that any criticism I make of what he writes is "semantics".

It's one way of avoiding having to engage with criticism, I suppose. :)

If I'm "Professor Semantics", does that make you "Doctor Hasbara", Rachamim? I rather think it does!
 
Spion: No offence but I do not recall the part where i gladly offered, or offered at all to jump therough hoops for you. If you want to believe he is the G-D of all G-Ds please, by all means, do so. Fact is, he was a fool who was unmasked when he tried for his second gig, as Ambassador to Portugal. Never made it out of the Senate owing to his glorious unAmerican service for the Hashemites.

He is one of the IAK dual board members, all of which are formerly employed in the Arab World interestingly. I would not know if Viets himself were a Nazi but do know for a fact that he is closely involved with Neo-Nazi causes (see IAK, CNI, and its sister organisation).

As I described in posting to Tangent in my last post, Bird who is the co-founder of CNI anbd a dual board member of IAK is also a member of IDR, hgas apperaed on stage with such illustrious characters as Ernst Zundl, and every other Nazi on their list and as stated, publicly stated his agreement with their main objective (i.e. "proving ther Holocaust to be a hoax").

Viet is also among the ex-statesmen of all 3 groups who blames the "Jewish Lobby (not Israeli or Zionist mind you)" for his dismal career in politics. As they say, "The 700 Pound Gorilla!" Oooooh, I love the trailer! Pass them bananas Cletus!

He has not agreed with Bird though as far as I know in saying "Jews control the media." Still, in saying Jews have been his political downfall he pretty much does not need to say another word. "Rachamim, could we have you offer annotated sources in 9 languages attesting to this character assasination? I mean, were an Ambassador truly guilty of such things it would make front page news!"

OR, on the other hand people probably find it run of the mill given the era in which most of his nonsense transpired (He was in govt. employ from 81 to 84 I believe and that was the height of the Reganomics hijinks although not as flashy as Lewinskygate, another "Jeiwhs ploy" as some would tell it).


This is really old stuff Spion and I am afraid you will be left to your own devices if you really want 50 sources. As I said earlier, when I trashed G for iniating a thread using an IAK Op-Ed piece I went very in depth and that includes unmasking Viets (who of all things seems to have married a Jew, or is it a "Jewess"? Better ask Professor Semantics!).

As for it having made the press, although I do not rely on my info here from the press I am sure it did as Weir is rather well known in America, and ostracised from civilised society.

So, no proof whatsoever. Your waffle is worthless to me if I want to convince other people about these people. If I repeated your claims and was questioned for proof about their supposed Neo-nazi links I can't say, "Because some Israeli on the Internet said so," can I?

Therefore I have to interpret your complete lack of independent support for your view as evidence that you were engaging in smear tactics. Again.

All it would have taken was a couple of links - a minute's work, rather than 8 paragraphs of waffle.

But then, that's the point isn't it? Your raison d'etre is to smear, to lie and to obfuscate anything that helps understanding between the two sides and a possibility of peace. As long as a state of war remains land can be grabbed, and if all goes well for your side the Palestinians will eventually go the way of the native Americans or the aboriginal Australians and be a forgotten and defeated people.

I have nothing but contempt for the racism and dishonesty inherent in your worldview and how those are manifested in your role here.
 
From the Desk of Dr. Hasbara...

Panda: "If Panda is "Professor Semantics" then Rachamim is "Doctor Hasbara".": Do you even know what Hasbara means? It does not mean "propaganda" Panda, it means "truth telling." It is considered a civic virtue in Israel and if you call me a doctor in it, well thank you . I can only pray to be worthy enough of the title one day.

Spion: "Rachamim offers no proof that the organisation he labled as "Neo-Nazi" is anything but.": Spion, if that is your belief, more power to you. Most rational people who looked into it THEMSELVES would surely think otherwise. Helping Rudolph Hess to write a book, calling him a close, personal friend as one of the Board Members did.. Belonging to IHR, as the founder does, speaking there and publicly admitting your admiration of their Holucast Denial is usally pretty good proof.

Belonging to the PLO Negotiating Team at Madrid, or simply, as your article states, taking a junket that meets with the leaders of HAMAS, Hezbollah, PIJ, PRC, and a few other choice groups (NOTE: YOUR article talks of the junket but with very few actual details of what occurred) should be enough.

"If questioned about claiming the group has Neo-Nazi links, Spion couls not possibly offer the ex0planation that 'Some Israeli in cyberspace said so,' could he?": IF you wanted to, why not? in all seriousness, the information I have reiterated yet again (above) should be more than enough for a rational person.

You DO know what IHR is, do you not? INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW. David Irving? Fred Leuchter, AKA "Dr. Death" (not to be confused with the Nazi now the subject of a continent wide manhunt), Ernst Zundl, and many other "notables"?

Claiming Jews control the media, claiming your career was deliberately sbotaged by Jews, the Israeli Lobby is subversive to the US, and many other ridiculous assertions should give you more than enough information to appease any such interrogator.
 
Claiming Jews control the media, claiming your career was deliberately sbotaged by Jews, the Israeli Lobby is subversive to the US, and many other ridiculous assertions should give you more than enough information to appease any such interrogator.

You're making all of this up. Where did Spion say any of this? Please cite the posts.
 
spion i am sure you have already googled BUT there has been an attempt to portray this alison weir as a nazi .. it seems articles on Dukes webiste must have needed her permission .. however her actual words, in a left wing website, do NOT show her to be nazi at all

http://www.counterpunch.org/weir04042008.html

"By providing massive funding to Israel, no matter what it does, American aid is empowering Israeli supremacists who believe in a never-ending campaign of ethnic cleansing; while disempowering Israelis who recognize that policies of morality, justice, and rationality are the only road to peace."
 
Durruti: You look at a couple of sites and feel that you are then able to make a definiative statement on her ideology?

She is also on the Board of CNI and CNIF. I will not bore you with her ...yet...Spion asked why I say CNI is a Neo-Nazi organisation, etc. Here is a link to co-founder (former) Congressman Paul "Pete" McCloskey's mentioned speech at the 13th IHR Conference. McCloskey was later confronted with this to no end, and tried to wiggle by saying he had no doubt that the Holocaust took place, "only the numbers were debatable." At the Conference, where he appeared with Zundl, Faurisson, Irving, and Leuchter among others (as I MIGHT have mentioned earlier) he would only refer to the Holocaust as "the so called Holocaust." When CNI, et al got tired of bailing water they dumped him rather than go down with the ship. They had plenty of other nonsense to answer for though, which I will get to in a sec. First the link...

www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n3p-2_Conf.html

For anyone wishing to research at length, and I will not dog each one of the current Board Memebers due to my actually having a life offline and it taking far too long to do so, their names are:

Chairman: Former Ambassador Robert Keely

Vice Chairman: Former Senator James "Jim" Abourzek

Prersident (and co-founder): Former Ambassador Eugene H. Bird

Secretary: Zainab Elberry

Treasurer: Stephen Jones Esq.

Board Memembers At Large: Mohammed (sic) Hakki

Daniel McGowan

Peter Viering Esq.

ALISON WEIR

Chairman Emeritus (and co-founder): Former Congressman Paul Findley

IF people choose to research each one of these people they will have a grab-bag full of racism and offencive behavior and actions.

Perhaps almost as interesting as these CURRENT nutters is one of the former fools.

I mentioned old Pete...

Abdurahman Alamoudi was famous in the US, in a fringe sense I suppose, for publicly stating his allegiances to Hezbollah and HAMAS, claiming that the 1993 WTC Bombers were in prison because they are "victims of anti-Muslim bias," but most of all because he himself is now in prison on terror related offences (financial in nature actually but none the less). That is why he was replaced within the 2 organisations.

Then there is a lovable old coot from Weir's own organisation ("If Americans Only Knew"), "Chairman Emeritus," co-founder, and former Ambassador Paul Findley who was the subject of a documentary by Mark Farrel of "Honest Media Today." Among the many "nice" things he said was a piece of Arab propaganda claiming former PM Sharon had said , to Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, that "Israel owns America." Naturally this inflames a great many Americans and so this is especially caustic given the context. That it is pure fabrication is another important factor.

For those that care, those very precious few, it first appeared in the syndicated Chicago Tribune column of Anne Geyer who copped it from a piece released by "Islamic Association for Palestine." Geyer was unmasked though and offered 3 explanations for the piece, but her editor still had to publish an apology. The fact that Findley spread this basic falsehood is just indicative of the unreliability of the organisations he co-founded. That his falsehoods are of the "Protocols" variety makes this all the more vile and thus, akin to Neo-Nazism.

If you like anti-Jewish carticatures you will love the cartoonist most often utilised by the 2 groups, always in their NY Times full page ads, Khalil Bendib. The hook noses always make me curious because they are the same feature used by anti-Arab cartoonists and yet it never seems to occurr to these fellow Semitic "artists."

Bird, who was the object of Spion's curioisity has made some interesting comments. Aside from maintaining that his career was "ruined by Jews," and that "Jews control the media (wow! never heard THAT one!), he was interviewed on CBC (Canadian major network) for their nightly news programme after Abu Ghraib and he had the audacity to closely insinsuate that it was Israel who had committed those atrocities. CBC disavowed him 3 days later (comments made on May 4th, 2004 and disavowed on May 7th, 2004).

Various inflammatory comments made by CNI, et al: "Israel purposely attacked the USS Liberty in 1967." "Zionism is racism (of course parroting that crap)," "Israel has no right to exist," "The Partiton Ratification has no legal foundation and should not be recognised," "The Holocaust was a bonanza to the Zionists," " Israel owns the entire US Congress, not just a few here and there," and far too many more to even hope to finish listing.

Do not worry Durruti, I did not forget about Weir. However, now that I recall, in a thread within the last 8 months or so responded to a post about her organisation, made by GMarthews. In my post(s) I thoroughly outlined the issues urrounding this woman and HER organisation. It is worth noting however that just about every board member past and present (for these 2 orgs.) has also sat on HER board. That alone should make rational people think but as I said, I went far more into detail within the mentioned thread.
 
Nino: No offence Nino but you are lost. I never said Spion said it. Spion used an article discussing one of the 2 organisations I just dicussed. I told him that the quoted EX-American statesman was a Neo-Nazi, as was the organisation sponsoring the junket (a trip they have taken tree times thus far but gearing up for the next one this autumn, where they hobknob with the leaders of HAMAS and Hezbollah, higher-ups but never the actual leaders as the ogranisation is not even deemed that important by Arab hatemongers).

As I also told Spion, the ex-politco is breaking US Law by interacting with figures representing organisations on the US List of Terrorist Organisations.

Spion then asked me how I could maintain that an article by Agencie Presse was Neo-Nazi, so it seems he too was a bit off track so do not feel to chargined. anyway, I left a link in my previous post showing the Nazi connection on just one of many, many levels.
 
<slight derail> I hope you'll forgive me.... I never knew about the U.S.S. Liberty. Inflamatory? Bad choice of words there considering the story. The Chicago Tribune has a recent article about this:-
New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Veterans, documents suggest U.S., Israel didn't tell full story of deadly '67 incident
By John Crewdson | Tribune senior correspondent
October 2, 2007

Bryce Lockwood, Marine staff sergeant, Russian-language expert, recipient of the Silver Star for heroism, ordained Baptist minister, is shouting into the phone.

"I'm angry! I'm seething with anger! Forty years, and I'm seething with anger!"

Lockwood was aboard the USS Liberty, a super-secret spy ship on station in the eastern Mediterranean, when four Israeli fighter jets flew out of the afternoon sun to strafe and bomb the virtually defenseless vessel on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of what would become known as the Six-Day War.

For Lockwood and many other survivors, the anger is mixed with incredulity: that Israel would attack an important ally, then attribute the attack to a case of mistaken identity by Israeli pilots who had confused the U.S. Navy's most distinctive ship with an Egyptian horse-cavalry transport that was half its size and had a dissimilar profile. And they're also incredulous that, for years, their own government would reject their calls for a thorough investigation.

They're frothing about it on Free Republic too.

</derail>
 
Nino: No offence Nino but you are lost. I never said Spion said it. Spion used an article discussing one of the 2 organisations I just dicussed. I told him that the quoted EX-American statesman was a Neo-Nazi, as was the organisation sponsoring the junket (a trip they have taken tree times thus far but gearing up for the next one this autumn, where they hobknob with the leaders of HAMAS and Hezbollah, higher-ups but never the actual leaders as the ogranisation is not even deemed that important by Arab hatemongers).

As I also told Spion, the ex-politco is breaking US Law by interacting with figures representing organisations on the US List of Terrorist Organisations.

Spion then asked me how I could maintain that an article by Agencie Presse was Neo-Nazi, so it seems he too was a bit off track so do not feel to chargined. anyway, I left a link in my previous post showing the Nazi connection on just one of many, many levels.

The only person who is "lost" is you, chum. Once again, like your nonsense about Mandela, you make up stuff about other posters.

You have never been interested in other opinions, you are here for the sole purpose of spreading discord and disinformation.
 
spion i am sure you have already googled BUT there has been an attempt to portray this alison weir as a nazi .. it seems articles on Dukes webiste must have needed her permission .. however her actual words, in a left wing website, do NOT show her to be nazi at all

http://www.counterpunch.org/weir04042008.html

"By providing massive funding to Israel, no matter what it does, American aid is empowering Israeli supremacists who believe in a never-ending campaign of ethnic cleansing; while disempowering Israelis who recognize that policies of morality, justice, and rationality are the only road to peace."

If it's Nazi to be against ethnic cleansing and to be for morality, justice, rationality and peace then you'll have to chuck me in Spandau too.

I smell a big fat smokescreen by the advocates of Israel.

I'll be researching this in detail.
 
Panda: "If Panda is "Professor Semantics" then Rachamim is "Doctor Hasbara".": Do you even know what Hasbara means? It does not mean "propaganda" Panda, it means "truth telling." It is considered a civic virtue in Israel and if you call me a doctor in it, well thank you . I can only pray to be worthy enough of the title one day.

Spion: "Rachamim offers no proof that the organisation he labled as "Neo-Nazi" is anything but.": Spion, if that is your belief, more power to you. Most rational people who looked into it THEMSELVES would surely think otherwise. Helping Rudolph Hess to write a book, calling him a close, personal friend as one of the Board Members did.. Belonging to IHR, as the founder does, speaking there and publicly admitting your admiration of their Holucast Denial is usally pretty good proof.

Belonging to the PLO Negotiating Team at Madrid, or simply, as your article states, taking a junket that meets with the leaders of HAMAS, Hezbollah, PIJ, PRC, and a few other choice groups (NOTE: YOUR article talks of the junket but with very few actual details of what occurred) should be enough.

"If questioned about claiming the group has Neo-Nazi links, Spion couls not possibly offer the ex0planation that 'Some Israeli in cyberspace said so,' could he?": IF you wanted to, why not? in all seriousness, the information I have reiterated yet again (above) should be more than enough for a rational person.

You DO know what IHR is, do you not? INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW. David Irving? Fred Leuchter, AKA "Dr. Death" (not to be confused with the Nazi now the subject of a continent wide manhunt), Ernst Zundl, and many other "notables"?

Claiming Jews control the media, claiming your career was deliberately sbotaged by Jews, the Israeli Lobby is subversive to the US, and many other ridiculous assertions should give you more than enough information to appease any such interrogator.

Are you going to explain this or will you wriggle again?
 
Panda: "If Panda is "Professor Semantics" then Rachamim is "Doctor Hasbara".": Do you even know what Hasbara means? It does not mean "propaganda" Panda, it means "truth telling." It is considered a civic virtue in Israel and if you call me a doctor in it, well thank you . I can only pray to be worthy enough of the title one day.

Feh, you have the nerve to accuse me of "semantics" and then post a biased piece of dreck like that?

Hasbara, in the sense that I've used the word, means exactly what it did when Moono accused you of circulating it; it means "explaining a side of the story" or "getting our point across" rather than "telling the truth". It means purveying a particular POV to the exclusion of any other interpretation and to the exclusion of inconvenient facts.

So don't pat yourself on the back too hard, Rachamim. You're a propagand, and it's all you'll ever be.
 
No, because you're stalking me and making snide remarks. You have contributed precisely nothing and are obsessed with me.

Don't be a child. Coming from you accusations of stalking are laughable.

My reason for posting here was to point out your mistake in suggesting that R18 had said that Spion posted about Jews controlling the media etc.

He did not. You were wrong and there are no forum rules against pointing out errant contributions that I'm aware of. Indeed it's done all the time.
 
Don't be a child. Coming from you accusations of stalking are laughable.

My reason for posting here was to point out your mistake in suggesting that R18 had said that Spion posted about Jews controlling the media etc.

He did not. You were wrong and there are no forum rules against pointing out errant contributions that I'm aware of. Indeed it's done all the time.

You're the one who is behaving like a "child", so stop projecting.

You clearly have a problem reading R18's posts. I wonder why that is? :hmm:
 
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