Just drug issues thank you and you know how they began, don't you? I would love to discuss it so keep blathering.
Hamas Charter
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Often is. Too much personality and I myself am guilty of allowing it to become so. Oh well, like the real world I suppose.
Frog: Ever read Mein Kamph? I mean that answers itself.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He's insinuating that Hitler followed Mein Kampf as though it were a manifesto or game-plan.
Obviously, the fact that if you compare Mein Kampf with any historical timeline of Nazism, you'll find many contradictions and omissions of such an insinuation being in any way accurate is neither here nor there.
Spion
I hear ya
He's likening Mein Kampf to Hamas' charter. As if Germany and the Gaza stip are in any way comparable
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
intresting Durritti so this hamas charter this would be the same hamas charter whichw as suspended before the original ceasefire which was only broken by Isreali attacks and shelling on the beach in Gaza at which point the previously outside fo Palestinian poltics Hammas had been elected to power and are in the process of rewriting the charter to apply to their current poltical situation.
something which suprisingly considering the immideate siege and isolation from the entire world they have experinced they haven't made a legislative priority compared to the daily grind for resources which they are as a independantly elected sovering government fully entitled to use and implament...
so both of you know this charter is currently suspended pending a new one. and has been since before their election.
tell me why is it that both of you Rach and now you Duritti; are attempting to circumnaiviate the due process of this matter and unilaterally declare Hammas's intent before they do.
Can you please both explain what direct inside knowledge you have of these dealing Hammas have been having and explain why this time it will or will not be different, when complied to last time as you both have to be party to the neagotiations internally within Hammas.
or is it another big pipe of steaming irrlelvant shit espoused by both Rach and Duritti with no reffernece or indeed corrilation to the facts or truth of the matter....
when you are ready could you also explain why these deleicate negotiations in palestines internal poltical landscape would all things considered allow it's senior protagonists free licence to spill their knowledge on an anyonnomous bulletin board with vauge leftish leanings....
oh look it's duritti and rach chatting shit about a subject neither of them know anything about and putting the world to rights again...
at least you are both consistant in this shower...
something which suprisingly considering the immideate siege and isolation from the entire world they have experinced they haven't made a legislative priority compared to the daily grind for resources which they are as a independantly elected sovering government fully entitled to use and implament...
so both of you know this charter is currently suspended pending a new one. and has been since before their election.
tell me why is it that both of you Rach and now you Duritti; are attempting to circumnaiviate the due process of this matter and unilaterally declare Hammas's intent before they do.
Can you please both explain what direct inside knowledge you have of these dealing Hammas have been having and explain why this time it will or will not be different, when complied to last time as you both have to be party to the neagotiations internally within Hammas.
or is it another big pipe of steaming irrlelvant shit espoused by both Rach and Duritti with no reffernece or indeed corrilation to the facts or truth of the matter....
when you are ready could you also explain why these deleicate negotiations in palestines internal poltical landscape would all things considered allow it's senior protagonists free licence to spill their knowledge on an anyonnomous bulletin board with vauge leftish leanings....
oh look it's duritti and rach chatting shit about a subject neither of them know anything about and putting the world to rights again...
at least you are both consistant in this shower...
Spion
I hear ya
One week nazi comparisons are passe and insulting, the next it's OK to use them. It's like 1984 with Rach, you just never know what's true this week
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You have accused me of being young before, it does not wash. I approach the situation from a different standpoint from you, a very different one.
The Palestinians need weaponry for the exact same reason that Great Britain needs weaponry, for the exact same reason that the USA needs weaponry, for the exact same reason that Israel needs weaponry.
To defend themselves and their territories from their enemies, to repel invadors, and to take back lands that have been taken from them.
At the moment, there is no need for Israel to bother with a peace settlement and the evidence for this is simple, Israel is not making any serious effort to create significant peace with a fair settlement. Instead it continues with settlements. Israel is not under any threat and has not seriously been for years.
Israel is the alpha male of the region and can simply take what it wants as it has been with demolishing Palestinian homes and its building of its own settlements on disputed lands. The Palestinians have been powerless to fight back against Israels tanks and armoured bulldozers.
There is another way of describing taking what you want, - see it - want it - take it, or even more succinctly "theft"!
Nothing will change the status quo for Israel except force, a completely balancing force ranged against it. And by that I mean troops, tanks, armoured bulldozers, helicopter gunships, jet fighters, all the way, yes all the way even up to short range nuclear devices that Israel apparently claims itself to posses.
If such a balancing were to take place then Israel will have no choice, it will have to be serious about peace, and by that I mean a fair peace in the local region.
Because facing a force of complete parity, war would be unthinkable, not just for Israel but also for Palestine.
It is called MAD, firstly it is mad as in insane, yes quite probably but it is MAD in the meaning used between the USSR and USA in the cold war.
Mutually Assured Destruction.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
One week nazi comparisons are passe and insulting, the next it's OK to use them. It's like 1984 with Rach, you just never know what's true this week
"Newspeak", innit?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i preffer the less eloquent term utter bullshit... meself...
Panda: Thanks for the mind reading trick but my point was anything but. Frog asked if any political writer has ever followed their written thoughts into action.
While Kamph did not have blueprints for the physical layout of Buchenwald, it did contain those onerous anti-Jewish gems that led to the deaths fo more than 6 million Jews and millions ofother persecuted demographics so that Frog's question, do politicians ever follow tought with action has been proved in more than one case, the case in particular being a prime example.
As for HAMAS, it sending unguided rocketry into population centers like S'derot, Ashkelon, and various Kibbutzim proves that their agenda is being followed with action as well.
Spion: "Likening HAMAS ' Charter with Mein Kamph as if there are any similarities between Gaza and Weimar Germany.": Actually Spiopn that is an interesting comment. Kamph actually does not go nearly as far as the Charter does in expressing its aim of total genocide. It goes beyong Kamph in its blanket victimisation of the Jewish People.
While Kamph did not have blueprints for the physical layout of Buchenwald, it did contain those onerous anti-Jewish gems that led to the deaths fo more than 6 million Jews and millions ofother persecuted demographics so that Frog's question, do politicians ever follow tought with action has been proved in more than one case, the case in particular being a prime example.
As for HAMAS, it sending unguided rocketry into population centers like S'derot, Ashkelon, and various Kibbutzim proves that their agenda is being followed with action as well.
Spion: "Likening HAMAS ' Charter with Mein Kamph as if there are any similarities between Gaza and Weimar Germany.": Actually Spiopn that is an interesting comment. Kamph actually does not go nearly as far as the Charter does in expressing its aim of total genocide. It goes beyong Kamph in its blanket victimisation of the Jewish People.
Garifled: The Charter was NEVER "Suspended." That is a lie, or at the very best just anoither example of "bad facts."
As for Cease Fire violations preceeding the beach incident which was the fault of HAMAS anyway, do you recall why the beach was being hslled that morning? A HAMAS Qassam team was about 11 meters off into the scrub. Does not sound like much a Cease Fire to me but of course that is just ignoring the 170 plus noted and verified violations from beginning to that Beach Incident.
HAMAS has never held to any ceasefire and that might have a little something to do witheir orthadox adheremce to Sunna theology that holds that there 3 sorts of Cease Fire. I will not bore you with Arabic because it will go right over your head, surely, but the first is a long term up to 10 year deal that allows the weaker party, in this case HAMAS to abide by sich an agreement so that they may take said time to regroup, rearm, and retrain in order to gain enough overall strength to take over and win the armed confrontation.
The second kind is a short term version of Number I, times at less than 12 months and allowing for the same porinciples.
Lastly is an actual Truce but that takes a contract and since HAMAS is diametrically opposed to the very existence of the Zionist Entity as it lovely calls it, you will not see anything other than I and II.
"Rewriting the Charter.": Care to provide us with a source for this claim? Last soriung you claimed the same, I called you on it, and you never raised another peep. I am a regular consumer of Arab media watching al Akhsa TV daily both here in NYC and back home in Mindanao and I can tell you that unless you have a person relatrionship with Kelad Ma'she'el you are terribly wrong.
I will aslo remind you that one man alone soeaks for the organisation and that is not Kaniyeh, it is not Obeid, it is noone byut Me'sha'al.
You ask for proof, prove tous the Charter is being rewritten, soemthing noone in Israeli Mil Intel knows, nor does any Gazan media report...and yet you claim for more than a year. OK shoot, go ahead, show us where. Thanks in advance. I am sure the answer will be some eqar blasting insult about how I am not worth your time and look it up myself. Let us see how well I know you.
As for Cease Fire violations preceeding the beach incident which was the fault of HAMAS anyway, do you recall why the beach was being hslled that morning? A HAMAS Qassam team was about 11 meters off into the scrub. Does not sound like much a Cease Fire to me but of course that is just ignoring the 170 plus noted and verified violations from beginning to that Beach Incident.
HAMAS has never held to any ceasefire and that might have a little something to do witheir orthadox adheremce to Sunna theology that holds that there 3 sorts of Cease Fire. I will not bore you with Arabic because it will go right over your head, surely, but the first is a long term up to 10 year deal that allows the weaker party, in this case HAMAS to abide by sich an agreement so that they may take said time to regroup, rearm, and retrain in order to gain enough overall strength to take over and win the armed confrontation.
The second kind is a short term version of Number I, times at less than 12 months and allowing for the same porinciples.
Lastly is an actual Truce but that takes a contract and since HAMAS is diametrically opposed to the very existence of the Zionist Entity as it lovely calls it, you will not see anything other than I and II.
"Rewriting the Charter.": Care to provide us with a source for this claim? Last soriung you claimed the same, I called you on it, and you never raised another peep. I am a regular consumer of Arab media watching al Akhsa TV daily both here in NYC and back home in Mindanao and I can tell you that unless you have a person relatrionship with Kelad Ma'she'el you are terribly wrong.
I will aslo remind you that one man alone soeaks for the organisation and that is not Kaniyeh, it is not Obeid, it is noone byut Me'sha'al.
You ask for proof, prove tous the Charter is being rewritten, soemthing noone in Israeli Mil Intel knows, nor does any Gazan media report...and yet you claim for more than a year. OK shoot, go ahead, show us where. Thanks in advance. I am sure the answer will be some eqar blasting insult about how I am not worth your time and look it up myself. Let us see how well I know you.
Weltweit: You talk of age...I do not recall ever talking to you before but if it is true, so be it. You make a comment like you did when I personally fought in a wat, almost 3 decades ago where they had more than 300 tanks and more than 100 APCS not to mentioned 5 well armed bases including the one that left bulklet fragments in my sinuses so I knod of know they are a bit better amred than the outside world is led to think.
True, times have changed and now the PLO is Good Cop and it is HAMAS/PRC/PIJ that are the Bad Cops but they have weapons of a worse caliber. Much smaller, primed for more damage, and much more easily concealed.
There is no shortage at all. Part of the problem are my own comrades selling them M16s and I am sure soon we will see them with Tavors to boot but the point being, they are very well armed as the Katyusha launching this morning into Ashkelon, from Gaza, shows us. 122 mm ordnance is no joke at 12 should per launch.
"Israel continues with settlements.": The last settlement finished in 1994. The only building allowed since that date is Natural Expansion and that does not count as much of anything since almost all of them anyway are being plowed under inm the second phase of Withdrawal.
Despite the Kadima Scandal the party and its Platfrom of disenagagement is alive and well (although we will have a woman PM shortly and that could complicate things on the Arab front knowing how they view women in leadership positions). So, Natural Expansionsim, the ONLY building, is moot since it will be plowed under shortly.
As for the rest, it will never happen because there is a great reason why the Arab World merely pays lip service to the "Palestinians" and their "cause." They are scapegoats.
As we se in Lebanon this past weekend. Have a huge internal problem of dissention? Just mention Israel and tone down that problem by about 30 degrees. Saniora said the country should be focusing on its real enemy, Israel, and Hezbollah began slinking back into its holes.
This is all the "Palestinians" mean to Arab Govts. amd this is why none but Jordan has offered them citizenship in more than half a century. they will never have meaningful weapons , they had that chance in the early 80s and squandered their good fortune by lining Arafat and his crony's pocklets. Now it is simply a case of trying to keep their idea of nationalsim afloat.
It should work out ok but they better get with it because most of the world is tired with their crap.
True, times have changed and now the PLO is Good Cop and it is HAMAS/PRC/PIJ that are the Bad Cops but they have weapons of a worse caliber. Much smaller, primed for more damage, and much more easily concealed.
There is no shortage at all. Part of the problem are my own comrades selling them M16s and I am sure soon we will see them with Tavors to boot but the point being, they are very well armed as the Katyusha launching this morning into Ashkelon, from Gaza, shows us. 122 mm ordnance is no joke at 12 should per launch.
"Israel continues with settlements.": The last settlement finished in 1994. The only building allowed since that date is Natural Expansion and that does not count as much of anything since almost all of them anyway are being plowed under inm the second phase of Withdrawal.
Despite the Kadima Scandal the party and its Platfrom of disenagagement is alive and well (although we will have a woman PM shortly and that could complicate things on the Arab front knowing how they view women in leadership positions). So, Natural Expansionsim, the ONLY building, is moot since it will be plowed under shortly.
As for the rest, it will never happen because there is a great reason why the Arab World merely pays lip service to the "Palestinians" and their "cause." They are scapegoats.
As we se in Lebanon this past weekend. Have a huge internal problem of dissention? Just mention Israel and tone down that problem by about 30 degrees. Saniora said the country should be focusing on its real enemy, Israel, and Hezbollah began slinking back into its holes.
This is all the "Palestinians" mean to Arab Govts. amd this is why none but Jordan has offered them citizenship in more than half a century. they will never have meaningful weapons , they had that chance in the early 80s and squandered their good fortune by lining Arafat and his crony's pocklets. Now it is simply a case of trying to keep their idea of nationalsim afloat.
It should work out ok but they better get with it because most of the world is tired with their crap.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
nice lies how do you counter this though rach
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Actually, her question was "what's that got to do with anything?", as in "what has whether or not I've read "Mein Kampf" got to do with anything".
Seems to me you the one indulging in a "mind reading trick" here, if you imagine that frogwoman asked "has any political writer has ever followed their written thoughts into action".
Except that, as I said, Mein Kampf and reality diverge quite strongly. It's arguable that if Mein Kampf did represent the epitome of Nazi sentiment against Jews and other "aliens", then the holocaust wouldn't have been a holocaust of extermination camps, but a holocaust brought about almost entirely by slave labour (and therefore with arguably many more survivors).
Garfield: That has nothing to do with rewriting the Charter, which by the way stands UNREVISED and still includes the specific Sira quoted bu Durruti along with 11 other exaples of HAMAS' expressed wish to exterminate, EXTERMINATE every Jew on Earth.
No problem with Jews? Then why blame Jews for all addictions? All wars? Controlling all the banks of the world? The world media? Should I continue?
As for living with Jews in peace. My own grandfather was murdered by Arabs in Hebron, along with his eldest son (my uncle) in 1929. The Jewish Community of Gaza City which dates from the year 1000 BCE/BC was also exterminated that year? Tel Chai and Metullah weere exterminated in 1920. Want to go on?
Also, where is the quote from. You have not told us. Since Me'sha'al is not very proficient in English (in fact never offers official statements in the language, this is done by spokespeople who do NOT speak for him). Even if the wuote were genuine, which I really doubt, it is worthless in view of the context in which it was allegedly uttered, by the head of a snake that poublished the afore mentioned Charter.
Again, please tell us where and when it is being rewritten. When was is suspended. And of course, please tell us where and when the quote was uttered and in what language.Thanks in advance.
Panda: I do not really understand your second paragraph (2nd point). I do understand your first but still read Frog that way. Indeed, if you go back to the previous post of hers (previous to the one you question) you might see the point I raised.
No problem with Jews? Then why blame Jews for all addictions? All wars? Controlling all the banks of the world? The world media? Should I continue?
As for living with Jews in peace. My own grandfather was murdered by Arabs in Hebron, along with his eldest son (my uncle) in 1929. The Jewish Community of Gaza City which dates from the year 1000 BCE/BC was also exterminated that year? Tel Chai and Metullah weere exterminated in 1920. Want to go on?
Also, where is the quote from. You have not told us. Since Me'sha'al is not very proficient in English (in fact never offers official statements in the language, this is done by spokespeople who do NOT speak for him). Even if the wuote were genuine, which I really doubt, it is worthless in view of the context in which it was allegedly uttered, by the head of a snake that poublished the afore mentioned Charter.
Again, please tell us where and when it is being rewritten. When was is suspended. And of course, please tell us where and when the quote was uttered and in what language.Thanks in advance.
Panda: I do not really understand your second paragraph (2nd point). I do understand your first but still read Frog that way. Indeed, if you go back to the previous post of hers (previous to the one you question) you might see the point I raised.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
nope sorry not enetertaing your lies based on a biased translation as well you know you lying fuck....
equally you already know that the charter is being redrafted after their sweeping to power on the popularist return to the standards of the PLO and the abandonment of the current illigitmate PA ( a provsional organiseation which lead to the Disbandment of the PLO after isreal and the USA agreed that this matter would be resolved... since this has been used as a deleiberatestalling tactic by isreal to continue to steal land and water resources there's no negoitation to be had is there...
Isreal and the USA said to palestine abandone your ways and we can talk and resolve this the PLO said if we do this then the day to day runnign will need to continue so the PA was created. Since that point every thing brought tothe table has been diamentrically opposed tot he intrestes of any Palestinian group and entirely favourable to Isreal, whilst allowing isreal to maintain it's 'defensive' position of land theift and extrajusdical killings with out ever having to conceed a bloody thing....
one day revisionist such as yourself will be held in prisons alongside david irving and the other holocaust deniers and i can't wait til we can que up to throw rotting fruit at all of you... you fucking disgust me with your continous unsubstantiated lies...
it's fuckign shame that no one in the mod team has any balls to outright ban the lot of you prozionist fucks it really is cos you can bet that if it were the case that Irvin or his kind were about they'd be banned for life for posting the obscene level of racist bullshit that you do...
perhaps it worth starting a thread complaining about the pro zionist agenda of the ME forums here. and the hyprocrasy and double standards of the moderational line when it's the 'deserving niggers' then it's no KKK BNP Nazi etc... and the 'underserving niggers' towel heads, muslims etc...
maybe we should get the arabs to go to tannign salons maybe if they were darker skinned they'd be covered in some kind of deservering nigger caveat...
seriously now... fridge why is Rach still posting or any of his cohorts...
I son't understand why if david irvin came here espousing his shit why he'd be banned and yet his fuck isn't... for doing the same thing... one denies the holocaust is hugely judeophobic and espouse nothign but hatred. and this one who is hugely anti arab, denies the systemic and well document genocide of the palestinian peoples and espouses nothing but hatred.
so what is it?
fear?
can't be arsed'ness?
racism?
prozionism?
concordance with the sentiements...
well...
equally you already know that the charter is being redrafted after their sweeping to power on the popularist return to the standards of the PLO and the abandonment of the current illigitmate PA ( a provsional organiseation which lead to the Disbandment of the PLO after isreal and the USA agreed that this matter would be resolved... since this has been used as a deleiberatestalling tactic by isreal to continue to steal land and water resources there's no negoitation to be had is there...
Isreal and the USA said to palestine abandone your ways and we can talk and resolve this the PLO said if we do this then the day to day runnign will need to continue so the PA was created. Since that point every thing brought tothe table has been diamentrically opposed tot he intrestes of any Palestinian group and entirely favourable to Isreal, whilst allowing isreal to maintain it's 'defensive' position of land theift and extrajusdical killings with out ever having to conceed a bloody thing....
one day revisionist such as yourself will be held in prisons alongside david irving and the other holocaust deniers and i can't wait til we can que up to throw rotting fruit at all of you... you fucking disgust me with your continous unsubstantiated lies...
it's fuckign shame that no one in the mod team has any balls to outright ban the lot of you prozionist fucks it really is cos you can bet that if it were the case that Irvin or his kind were about they'd be banned for life for posting the obscene level of racist bullshit that you do...
perhaps it worth starting a thread complaining about the pro zionist agenda of the ME forums here. and the hyprocrasy and double standards of the moderational line when it's the 'deserving niggers' then it's no KKK BNP Nazi etc... and the 'underserving niggers' towel heads, muslims etc...
maybe we should get the arabs to go to tannign salons maybe if they were darker skinned they'd be covered in some kind of deservering nigger caveat...
seriously now... fridge why is Rach still posting or any of his cohorts...
I son't understand why if david irvin came here espousing his shit why he'd be banned and yet his fuck isn't... for doing the same thing... one denies the holocaust is hugely judeophobic and espouse nothign but hatred. and this one who is hugely anti arab, denies the systemic and well document genocide of the palestinian peoples and espouses nothing but hatred.
so what is it?
fear?
can't be arsed'ness?
racism?
prozionism?
concordance with the sentiements...
well...
Garfield: Yale University is offering a biased translation? Sorry to break this to you but THAT particular translation came frm Gaza. Poor Garfield.
Pray tell, do you avail yourself to the HAMAS flagship station, al Akhsa TV out of Gaza City (it is on satellite so it is a valid question, knowing you of course have never been to our region)?
First let me regress...This past Monday, May,12th 2008 the HAMAS Minister of Health and Information (love the matching of those 2 particular portfolios but that is the HAMAS brand of logic for you) wrote an interesting Op-Ed piece in the Guardian.
As one who labels HAMAS members as "Resistance Fighters," as you do, as you do to their "Human Bombs," I am sure you probably wallpaper your room with the rag. In any event the piece was notable for one very strange and profound reason. The author, Minister Dr. Baseem Na'eem focused on Holocaust Denial.
Dr Na'eem wrote that the "Holocaust was a crime against humanity...." "We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity..."
More interestingly, he also added some other gems, "(The Israeli/"Palestinian" conflict was not a ) religious" conflict but a "political" conflict and he even goes on to thank those Israelis working towards the rights of "Palestinians."
Now, back to al Akhsa TV in Gaza City. The previous Wednesday, May 7th, 2008 it aired a repeat broadcast of a very highly rated (in terms of number of viewers) documentary that originally aired (I believe) on April 18th, 2008. This documentary is in Arabic naturally but the title translates roughly to "The Holocaust Fraud Perpertrated by the Satanic Jews."
In this wonderful piece that, for your benefit and others has been uploaded onto Youtube, in translation of course with subtitles and all, the Chartedim (black garbed religious Jews) are shown interspersed with the words "Satanic Jews," as I have mentioned probably. The key piece in it though, and it purports to be a documentary, is that they blame the entire Holocaust on Jews. Specifically, Ben Gurion iniated it when in effort to save money (another Charter gem) Gurion ordered that all retarded Jews be smothered (I am not exaggerating the content nor words), and from there moved onto all invalids (thus we Jews take Hitler's place in his first experiment with social euthanisia, another key piece of the Charter you claim Yale University has offered in mistranslation).
It is common from Arab militant groups to engage in doublespeak, one version for the West, another for their demographic, the Arab and Islamic Worlds but up until Monday I have always stated that I offer respect where respect is due, and that I respected HAMAS because they are proud of their Charter and openly admit to it (as opposed to White apologetics such as yourself).
Arafat made a career out of doing this, but until Monday HAMAS has been entirely consistent in any language. However, we now see the organisation learning a new game. I first began noticing it as General Suleiman began pressing the Egyptian Intel Cease Fire Plan. In Arabic the group had no problem using the word "Hudna" (talked about enough here so that I have no reason to rerpeat its convuluted definition in English), while in English they used the word "Cease Fire." Although one COULD argue that "Hudna" does not easily translate into English, until then HAMAS in English has always added words like "limited" or "of a specific length" in terms of Cease Fires so that their true intent was open and clear...and consistent.
I should also add that as Dr. Na'eem published his piece Monday a Qassam took off a 69 year old lady's head on a Kibbutz she was visiting in the Western Negev, and IF he was writing his piece on Friday as one might intelligently guess, he was doing it as a mortar shell struck 48 year old father of 3 Jimmy K'doshim as he stood in his front yard in S'derot. Both of course died in this strictly "political" struggle over a land that was abandoned by Israel in the Summer of 2005.
I will also add that in a speech, this past Tuesday, May 13th,2008 (notice if you will that the date is one day AFTER the Op Ed piece) at a function (black tied dinner no less, but televised throughout our region) Me'sha'al reiterated most of the points in the Charter... so Garfield, time to join the adult world. The Charter is what it is. HAMAS has no problem with it because Dr. Na'eem did not even mention it (at all), despite becoming the very first Arafat style forked tongue representative.
So much for your still unproved claim that it is being rewritten. I of course note that you do not even refer to that in your rebuttal nor of course offer a source on it.
If HAMAS, an organisation you readily admit to admiring can stick to it, what is your problem?
Pray tell, do you avail yourself to the HAMAS flagship station, al Akhsa TV out of Gaza City (it is on satellite so it is a valid question, knowing you of course have never been to our region)?
First let me regress...This past Monday, May,12th 2008 the HAMAS Minister of Health and Information (love the matching of those 2 particular portfolios but that is the HAMAS brand of logic for you) wrote an interesting Op-Ed piece in the Guardian.
As one who labels HAMAS members as "Resistance Fighters," as you do, as you do to their "Human Bombs," I am sure you probably wallpaper your room with the rag. In any event the piece was notable for one very strange and profound reason. The author, Minister Dr. Baseem Na'eem focused on Holocaust Denial.
Dr Na'eem wrote that the "Holocaust was a crime against humanity...." "We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity..."
More interestingly, he also added some other gems, "(The Israeli/"Palestinian" conflict was not a ) religious" conflict but a "political" conflict and he even goes on to thank those Israelis working towards the rights of "Palestinians."
Now, back to al Akhsa TV in Gaza City. The previous Wednesday, May 7th, 2008 it aired a repeat broadcast of a very highly rated (in terms of number of viewers) documentary that originally aired (I believe) on April 18th, 2008. This documentary is in Arabic naturally but the title translates roughly to "The Holocaust Fraud Perpertrated by the Satanic Jews."
In this wonderful piece that, for your benefit and others has been uploaded onto Youtube, in translation of course with subtitles and all, the Chartedim (black garbed religious Jews) are shown interspersed with the words "Satanic Jews," as I have mentioned probably. The key piece in it though, and it purports to be a documentary, is that they blame the entire Holocaust on Jews. Specifically, Ben Gurion iniated it when in effort to save money (another Charter gem) Gurion ordered that all retarded Jews be smothered (I am not exaggerating the content nor words), and from there moved onto all invalids (thus we Jews take Hitler's place in his first experiment with social euthanisia, another key piece of the Charter you claim Yale University has offered in mistranslation).
It is common from Arab militant groups to engage in doublespeak, one version for the West, another for their demographic, the Arab and Islamic Worlds but up until Monday I have always stated that I offer respect where respect is due, and that I respected HAMAS because they are proud of their Charter and openly admit to it (as opposed to White apologetics such as yourself).
Arafat made a career out of doing this, but until Monday HAMAS has been entirely consistent in any language. However, we now see the organisation learning a new game. I first began noticing it as General Suleiman began pressing the Egyptian Intel Cease Fire Plan. In Arabic the group had no problem using the word "Hudna" (talked about enough here so that I have no reason to rerpeat its convuluted definition in English), while in English they used the word "Cease Fire." Although one COULD argue that "Hudna" does not easily translate into English, until then HAMAS in English has always added words like "limited" or "of a specific length" in terms of Cease Fires so that their true intent was open and clear...and consistent.
I should also add that as Dr. Na'eem published his piece Monday a Qassam took off a 69 year old lady's head on a Kibbutz she was visiting in the Western Negev, and IF he was writing his piece on Friday as one might intelligently guess, he was doing it as a mortar shell struck 48 year old father of 3 Jimmy K'doshim as he stood in his front yard in S'derot. Both of course died in this strictly "political" struggle over a land that was abandoned by Israel in the Summer of 2005.
I will also add that in a speech, this past Tuesday, May 13th,2008 (notice if you will that the date is one day AFTER the Op Ed piece) at a function (black tied dinner no less, but televised throughout our region) Me'sha'al reiterated most of the points in the Charter... so Garfield, time to join the adult world. The Charter is what it is. HAMAS has no problem with it because Dr. Na'eem did not even mention it (at all), despite becoming the very first Arafat style forked tongue representative.
So much for your still unproved claim that it is being rewritten. I of course note that you do not even refer to that in your rebuttal nor of course offer a source on it.
If HAMAS, an organisation you readily admit to admiring can stick to it, what is your problem?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
that a very serious accusation in this country and you'd better have some evidence to back that up or there will be consiquences.
as support of a banned terrorist organisation is a jail term of 5 years, for even wearing a teeshirt with the symbol of the organiseation is 2 years.
so as you are making a claim of law breaking taking place on a uk based website you will be providing full detials and assertations or urban will be providing me with your full ip address and contact details ISP etc for the liablious and illigitimate claim of support of a bnned terrorist organistation.
your quotes no pomp or bluster. right now fuck face or your goign to court...
Garfield: Obviously I do not know it is being redone, and again for the third time in this thread and in this 4th thread now, will ask again for proof of this.
"Seeping to power...": Yeah, those WERE heady days for them for sure. Now however their own power base in Gaza City is beginning to turn on them. Last poll? While people still lean towards the HAMAS style of bombs and bricks they (drop in 20 odd points) are losing patience with this pissant group of Holy Rollers selling Paradise but stealinh diesel and foodstuffs.
Maybe it was all the televised HAMAS hijackings of fuel tankers as they pulled onto the access road out of Oz that is doing it...or maybe it is the IDF Embargo?
In any event, their "WB" powerbase has alwasy been Hevron and in Hevron that center has been Hevron University. Guess what Garfield? Last week they were swept out with a resounding rejection...this after they have held that university since 1986.
People are learning Garfield. When will you?
"PA blah blah blah , there is no talks there blah and blah.": Well Garfield, if you bothered to actually access the region (now in our glorious computer age you do not even need to buy a paper, almost all major papers are fully accessible, as are radio and tv stations here on the net. You can hear the latest just like I am doing here in NYC, that and talking to my kids almost daily but that is neither here nor there). See, Olmert and Abbas have been talking for the better part of a week and ending just beofre the holiday. Both admit to progress and even Area C which is entirely Israeli in letter is being ceded slowly.
Sh'dmah? Ever hear that name? You need to look it up. It is a former IDF Base about 4 kilometers outside of Jerusalem and it is being given to the PA to turn it into a model city. /An IDF Base on the "WB" being turned into a PA Model City courtesy of the Israelis? 4 kilometers outside of Jerusalem... AREA C... Mean anything in your mind? All the PA Police being redeployed? Checkpoints being closed and moved around to ease travel in every direction?
I should also remind you since it seems you are too young (happens alot on this site apparently), obviously, to remember that the PA had the vote of the people and continue to hold it on the "WB."
"Israel and the US said change your ways to the 'Palestinians' and then we can talk.": First, the US does not write our foreign or domestic policies. Who we talk to, and who the US talk to are two separate issues as one saw with the Iran/Contra Affair and selling military hardware to the Chinese so that is your first mistake.
Secondly, the only CHANGE that Israel held as a prerequisite to the PLO was a 2 fold demand: I)Abandon violence as a tool to achieve your political goals...and II) Recognise that we, Israel exist and have a right to do so.
You find those 2 things so unpalatable? I already know that you admire violence, but is recognising a nation that has a legal mandate and historical context (only nation in the Mid-East to hold that context) so disagreeable? Well regardless of what you might think, IF the PLO wanted to talk to us it only made common sense that they should recognise us first. How do you talk to soemthing you claim does not exist? Kind of like a mental illness I am afraid.
"Everything on the table was favourable to the Israelis...": First, the "Palestinians," i.e. the PLO had NOTHING. Because of poor leadership and even poorer choices they were bare bones dry. Anything they were offered was a gift. It is not often that a victor, and let us be frank if this situation is to be looked at as a confrontational situation and it is by most, then one is the victor the other the vanquished, then the vanquished does not have all that much room to make haughty demands.
Since day one in 1919 both were offered lands, the "Palestinians" were offered the better land and much, much more of it in that first offer but of course they refused it because they wanted all of it. Now they sit and whine that they have gotten a poor shake. What does Israel do? Despite ALL the land belonging historically to the Jews (all the land we are discussing), Israel still offers peaceful and secure coexistence. Almost 100 years have passed and as we see just an hour ago when 3 Qassams landed in the Negev, many of these Arabs who have never had a nation nor even a cultural identity until 1948 are still making demands at the point of a gun.
Yet Israel sits and talks. What other nation on the planet would absorb 122 mm ordnance, which by the way is becoming more and more the ordnance of choice (in others more killing power) as entire cities, an entire region (Southern District) sits in fear? What nation in that scenario would still sit and discuss letting the gunmen have more and more?
Only Israel does this and only Israel attracts fruitcakes who have no connection to the dynamic offering what they think is best.
"Seeping to power...": Yeah, those WERE heady days for them for sure. Now however their own power base in Gaza City is beginning to turn on them. Last poll? While people still lean towards the HAMAS style of bombs and bricks they (drop in 20 odd points) are losing patience with this pissant group of Holy Rollers selling Paradise but stealinh diesel and foodstuffs.
Maybe it was all the televised HAMAS hijackings of fuel tankers as they pulled onto the access road out of Oz that is doing it...or maybe it is the IDF Embargo?
In any event, their "WB" powerbase has alwasy been Hevron and in Hevron that center has been Hevron University. Guess what Garfield? Last week they were swept out with a resounding rejection...this after they have held that university since 1986.
People are learning Garfield. When will you?
"PA blah blah blah , there is no talks there blah and blah.": Well Garfield, if you bothered to actually access the region (now in our glorious computer age you do not even need to buy a paper, almost all major papers are fully accessible, as are radio and tv stations here on the net. You can hear the latest just like I am doing here in NYC, that and talking to my kids almost daily but that is neither here nor there). See, Olmert and Abbas have been talking for the better part of a week and ending just beofre the holiday. Both admit to progress and even Area C which is entirely Israeli in letter is being ceded slowly.
Sh'dmah? Ever hear that name? You need to look it up. It is a former IDF Base about 4 kilometers outside of Jerusalem and it is being given to the PA to turn it into a model city. /An IDF Base on the "WB" being turned into a PA Model City courtesy of the Israelis? 4 kilometers outside of Jerusalem... AREA C... Mean anything in your mind? All the PA Police being redeployed? Checkpoints being closed and moved around to ease travel in every direction?
I should also remind you since it seems you are too young (happens alot on this site apparently), obviously, to remember that the PA had the vote of the people and continue to hold it on the "WB."
"Israel and the US said change your ways to the 'Palestinians' and then we can talk.": First, the US does not write our foreign or domestic policies. Who we talk to, and who the US talk to are two separate issues as one saw with the Iran/Contra Affair and selling military hardware to the Chinese so that is your first mistake.
Secondly, the only CHANGE that Israel held as a prerequisite to the PLO was a 2 fold demand: I)Abandon violence as a tool to achieve your political goals...and II) Recognise that we, Israel exist and have a right to do so.
You find those 2 things so unpalatable? I already know that you admire violence, but is recognising a nation that has a legal mandate and historical context (only nation in the Mid-East to hold that context) so disagreeable? Well regardless of what you might think, IF the PLO wanted to talk to us it only made common sense that they should recognise us first. How do you talk to soemthing you claim does not exist? Kind of like a mental illness I am afraid.
"Everything on the table was favourable to the Israelis...": First, the "Palestinians," i.e. the PLO had NOTHING. Because of poor leadership and even poorer choices they were bare bones dry. Anything they were offered was a gift. It is not often that a victor, and let us be frank if this situation is to be looked at as a confrontational situation and it is by most, then one is the victor the other the vanquished, then the vanquished does not have all that much room to make haughty demands.
Since day one in 1919 both were offered lands, the "Palestinians" were offered the better land and much, much more of it in that first offer but of course they refused it because they wanted all of it. Now they sit and whine that they have gotten a poor shake. What does Israel do? Despite ALL the land belonging historically to the Jews (all the land we are discussing), Israel still offers peaceful and secure coexistence. Almost 100 years have passed and as we see just an hour ago when 3 Qassams landed in the Negev, many of these Arabs who have never had a nation nor even a cultural identity until 1948 are still making demands at the point of a gun.
Yet Israel sits and talks. What other nation on the planet would absorb 122 mm ordnance, which by the way is becoming more and more the ordnance of choice (in others more killing power) as entire cities, an entire region (Southern District) sits in fear? What nation in that scenario would still sit and discuss letting the gunmen have more and more?
Only Israel does this and only Israel attracts fruitcakes who have no connection to the dynamic offering what they think is best.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
no love full details now
"Serious accusation.": Whatever. You said it, why whine now? And the threats? That is just sad. I am already a persona non grata in your nation, do you think the UK would ever come after me for some piss poor trifling nonsense like that? Delusions of Grandeur I think Doctor Panda might say.
My IP has always been available sweetie. I even post under a real name and with my real adress discussed on this very site so go for it. What a clown.
Shouting expletives. Expressing support for murderers and then whining when someone rather politely (in comparison) calls him on it screams bloody murder .
My IP has always been available sweetie. I even post under a real name and with my real adress discussed on this very site so go for it. What a clown.
Shouting expletives. Expressing support for murderers and then whining when someone rather politely (in comparison) calls him on it screams bloody murder .
What full details? You have to be specific. If you mean my personal details, I do not know how you could ask before I posted that last one. In any event, ALL my personal info down to my job and, my Bronx adress, my Philippines adress is on this board so do what you want.
Me? I will stick to the issues instead of trying to get people banned and now heaven forbid arrested or some other fantasy. Yes, you are super hero of the left Gafield.
And yet people are dying and I find THAT subject just a td bit more interesting. If you think that this is a way to avoid showing the proof for your claim that the Charter is being rewritten, guess agian.
Me? I will stick to the issues instead of trying to get people banned and now heaven forbid arrested or some other fantasy. Yes, you are super hero of the left Gafield.
And yet people are dying and I find THAT subject just a td bit more interesting. If you think that this is a way to avoid showing the proof for your claim that the Charter is being rewritten, guess agian.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
you made a false calim of supprot of a banned organisation.
as yurban is now legally required to pass all my details as potential suspected terrorist under UK law to the home office due to your public accusation you'd better have a bloody water tight evidence of my support of the banned organisation as well as documentable evidence of the nature of that support.
otherwise, what you have done is liable me personally, and pulbically, and it's me not the psoter GarfieldLeChat as the home office will have no compunction in using my real name or acting on any recieved tip off.
oboviously this is an utterly bogus and false acucsation but without you being able to provide documented proof of the alligation you become subjuct to british libale law in terms of my personal legal situation and of course making false and or malicious reports of terrorist activities again a crime...
don't think that being a forgine national not based in the UK will absolve you from the legal consiquenced of make such a statement either, we have agreements with both europe and the US in regards to these matters hell we could even ask the US to try you on our behalf...
so post up the facts or fuck off now you've had your rope sonny and by god have you hung yourself....
as yurban is now legally required to pass all my details as potential suspected terrorist under UK law to the home office due to your public accusation you'd better have a bloody water tight evidence of my support of the banned organisation as well as documentable evidence of the nature of that support.
otherwise, what you have done is liable me personally, and pulbically, and it's me not the psoter GarfieldLeChat as the home office will have no compunction in using my real name or acting on any recieved tip off.
oboviously this is an utterly bogus and false acucsation but without you being able to provide documented proof of the alligation you become subjuct to british libale law in terms of my personal legal situation and of course making false and or malicious reports of terrorist activities again a crime...
don't think that being a forgine national not based in the UK will absolve you from the legal consiquenced of make such a statement either, we have agreements with both europe and the US in regards to these matters hell we could even ask the US to try you on our behalf...
so post up the facts or fuck off now you've had your rope sonny and by god have you hung yourself....
Whatever men, get over it. I would love to be a fly on the wall to anyone you complained to. What a clown. Try this: Provide some facts to back up your assertions about HAMAS< the group you admire, and we will move on to the next subject.
I wish I could be tried on something as mundane as this, it would be all too easy to prove your sympathies but that is not my concern. I would just like to see where you found the Charter was being rewritten but of course this attempt to defelect will lead to more nonsense. Whatever. Do as you please.
I wish I could be tried on something as mundane as this, it would be all too easy to prove your sympathies but that is not my concern. I would just like to see where you found the Charter was being rewritten but of course this attempt to defelect will lead to more nonsense. Whatever. Do as you please.
Oh, and Garfield, I am not an expert on English Law but do know from briefings that it is very similar to both the US Law after which it was loosely modeled, as well as the Israeli Law although amazingly our law is alot less stringent. Go wonder. However, it does not cover intellectual support genius.
If I stated that you weree raising funds for them, or sending them material support, you would have a point, but expressing admiration even of old Hitler is pone's perogative as long as one does not try to bring about similar actions of the person,etc.,etc.etc.
So go have some fun. At least you will learn a bit of legalese if you still have not mastered the Charter of, yes, the group you admire.
If I stated that you weree raising funds for them, or sending them material support, you would have a point, but expressing admiration even of old Hitler is pone's perogative as long as one does not try to bring about similar actions of the person,etc.,etc.etc.
So go have some fun. At least you will learn a bit of legalese if you still have not mastered the Charter of, yes, the group you admire.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
you havent' stated intellcual suppor tbut both the partiot act 2 and the support of a banned terroist orgnaiseations act in the uk and us resepctively cover this too....
so you evidence now or a full explaiantion as to why you are liabling me and why you are attempting to have the british government shut down this website and rain all mighty hell on the editor and owner...
you really have backed yourself into a very tight courner now son.
so you evidence now or a full explaiantion as to why you are liabling me and why you are attempting to have the british government shut down this website and rain all mighty hell on the editor and owner...
you really have backed yourself into a very tight courner now son.
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