Half Moon Herne Hill reopening

[Nanker Phelge]

Last gig I went to there was Darker My Love. A few years back now. They had a rubbish website and it was hard to tell what gigs were on. They seemed to have a lot of blues and covers bands too.

The Darker My Love gig was very good, but not well attended or advertised...or organised.

I hope they can get it up and working as a music space. I would go if there were acts on I want to see.

 

[ska invita]

I hope they can get it up and working as a music space. I would go if there were acts on I want to see.

Same here....
Ive been thinking about putting on a little semi-regular DJ night somewhere south but at the moment cant find a venue that feels right...the Half Moon would be ideal if it were up and running

 

[Nanker Phelge]

We're doing a nite at the Hand in Hand in Feb. Did try it once before and it didn't really work out....but they have a different(ish) set up so gonna give it a whirl...

 

[ska invita]

We're doing a nite at the Hand in Hand in Feb. Did try it once before and it didn't really work out....but they have a different(ish) set up so gonna give it a whirl...

Ive never been there...best of luck with it
post it on urban please - always like to check out a new spot and would be nice to hear you play

 

[DJWrongspeed]

The worry for me is that the dedicated music room will be subsumed into the rest of the pub, and so the level and type of music that is possible will change..."music" is a nebulous word

Once its subsumed it doesnt really matter who the promoter is, they will be limited by what they can and cant do.

Exactly. I doubt there's any incentive to keep a live music component. Fullers will be wanting a good return on their investment. I suspect it will end up a bit like the Tulse Hill Hotel. The pubs around Herne Hill are busy so Fullers know they can rely on attracting locals to a smart joint.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Same here....
Ive been thinking about putting on a little semi-regular DJ night somewhere south but at the moment cant find a venue that feels right...the Half Moon would be ideal if it were up and running

Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know

 

[ska invita]

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know

Fierce and Bizzy B? That's pretty impressive to be fair to them.

 

[ska invita]

Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know

Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?

 

[Rushy]

Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?

They've expanded into the arch next door. Guess they must be doing something right!

 

[editor]

Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?

They've had a complete rethink and what they're offering seems to be a whole load better than before. Good for them.

 

[editor]

Sad to say that it looks our worst fears may be realised: the Fullers proposals are (apparently) for a music-untroubled gastro pub...

Peter Blair
2 hrs · London
LATEST NEWS: Planning documents (16/AP/0167 & 16/AP/0168) for the Half Moon Pub have been submitted by Fullers to Southwark Council:

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk/documents/…

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk/documents/…

It would appear that kitchen and restaurant areas to the rear of the ground floor are proposed in place of the previous live music area, and that the Asset of Community Value (ACV) status of the pub awarded in December is being challenged. Please do look over these and get back here with your thoughts and comments.

planbuild.southwark.gov.uk
PLANBUILD.SOUTHWARK.GOV.UK

 

[ska invita]

Fu**ers

 

[editor]

More: Campaigners rally to keep Herne Hill’s Half Moon as a music venue as gastropub plans are revealed

 

[ska invita]

So the ACV specifically relates to the space as a music venue? The ACV must have some power or else Fullers wouldn't want it repealed.... But don't ACVs only leave one option, which is 6 months to buy the property by someone else?

I'm just trying to understand what the options might be....

 

[ska invita]

...maybe that group who run plan b and blues kitchen etc might be interested... They are in to music venues and they're putting on a festival in brockwell park this year... Proven track record and seem to have the capital

 

[Rushy]

...maybe that group who run plan b and blues kitchen etc might be interested... They are in to music venues and they're putting on a festival in brockwell park this year... Proven track record and seem to have the capital

Even though I signed the petition to keep a pub with music venue going, I reckon I'd object to it becoming one of their venues. Way too "big slick club" orientated and too intense for a small and relaxed centre like Herne Hill.

 

[ska invita]

The most important thing is that it stays a music venue - once thats gone its gone. No going back from a gastropub
and if it comes to finding someone within just 6 months it may well need to be someone bigger
-this is all just talk of course

 

[Rushy]

The most important thing is that it stays a music venue - once thats gone its gone

I hear where you are coming from but I don't agree. It needs to serve the community it is in. I don't think an XOYO night club would suit or serve this area at all well. It would be way too dominant.

 

[ska invita]

This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.

Anyhow, what is worth talking about is what exactly are the options, and what are the time frames to achieve them, with the presumption that the ACV wont be repealed. How much weight does the ACV at present carry to stop Fullers in their plans. And so on.

 

[Rushy]

This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.

You appear to have meant "it's a pointless argument upon which I want to have the last word".

Yours was a fair suggestion. Likewise, challenging it was not pointless. I think it would polarise the community and lead to a lot of people who would like and support a decent local music venue turning against it.

 

[editor]

This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.

Anyhow, what is worth talking about is what exactly are the options, and what are the time frames to achieve them, with the presumption that the ACV wont be repealed. How much weight does the ACV at present carry to stop Fullers in their plans. And so on.

Who the hell would want to turn it into an XOYO?! That's a bonkers suggestion.

It's a music venue and has been one for decades, and it's clear by the list of bands who have played there that it's played a notable role in developing local talent and introducing great new acts to the area. As far as I'm concerned it's fucking important it stays as a music venue, particularly given the fact that we're losing so many elsewhere. Young talent needs a place to be nurtured and bands on the road need to have places to perform.

I'll do whatever I can to ensure that place stays as a gig venue.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So the ACV specifically relates to the space as a music venue? The ACV must have some power or else Fullers wouldn't want it repealed.... But don't ACVs only leave one option, which is 6 months to buy the property by someone else?

I'm just trying to understand what the options might be....

Presumably the music venue part was referred to in the case for making it an ACV. I don't think it has any impact on how that works once it's been granted though. As I understand it you're right - the only effect is that if the building was up for sale then the community group that registered it would have six months to come up with the money to buy it. As far as I understand it it doesn't have any effect on leasing which is a problem here as the building is owned by Dulwich Estates, who aren't about selling I don't think.

 

[Rushy]

Presumably the music venue part was referred to in the case for making it an ACV. I don't think it has any impact on how that works once it's been granted though. As I understand it you're right - the only effect is that if the building was up for sale then the community group that registered it would have six months to come up with the money to buy it. As far as I understand it it doesn't have any effect on leasing which is a problem here as the building is owned by Dulwich Estates, who aren't about selling I don't think.

Only applies to leasehold disposals of more than 25 years as I understand it.

I reckon that unless protection is strengthened, the ACV is going to be of minimal value in London generally as the cost of buy out will almost always be so very high.

I had not realised that the council has the power to CPO an ACV.

 

[Crispy]

It's also not a matter that's covered by Planning.

I'm sorry to say that I don't see much scope for any legalities method of retaining the music venue use. The only hope is appealing DE and Fullers' better natures.

From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Only applies to leasehold disposals of more than 25 years as I understand it.

I reckon that unless protection is strengthened, the ACV is going to be of minimal value in London generally as the cost of buy out will almost always be so very high.

I had not realised that the council has the power to CPO an ACV.

Thanks - I didn't know that about the Leasehold.

I agree it's not going to help in a most cases. It obviously can be done - see the Ivy House - but the money involved is massive and only rising. Compared to the IH the cost of the Moon would be huge.

I checked some figures on this on another thread and from memory as of about this time last year there had been 11 successful purchases, nationwide.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.

Yes unfortunately the commercial reasoning is pretty straightforward isn't it, otherwise we'd be seeing loads of restaurants closing so gig venues can be opened. I've no idea what you do to reverse that though - really you'd need to be able to convince people that twenty quid is reasonable for a pub gig, and good luck anyone trying to do that.

 

[Rushy]

Thanks - I didn't know that about the Leasehold.

I agree it's not going to help in a most cases. It obviously can be done - see the Ivy House - but the money involved is massive and only rising. Compared to the IH the cost of the Moon would be huge.

I checked some figures on this on another thread and from memory as of about this time last year there had been 11 successful purchases, nationwide.

Yes. I read a similar number. Out of something close to 900 registrations. It's good in principle but not strong enough.

The simplest and most effective thing would be to change planning so that in the case of ACVs, there is a presumption against change of use or development.

 

[editor]

It's also not a matter that's covered by Planning.

I'm sorry to say that I don't see much scope for any legalities method of retaining the music venue use. The only hope is appealing DE and Fullers' better natures.

From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.

They've already upset Jay Rayner (he retweeted my Buzz piece) and if there's enough negative 'noise' created by locals that may give them some pause for thought. Possibly.

 

[discobastard]

They've already upset Jay Rayner (he retweeted my Buzz piece) and if there's enough negative 'noise' created by locals that may give them some pause for thought. Possibly.

Presumably some kind of business plan for a music venue and somebody with a solid background in booking and promoting gigs would be of most use in all this. I doubt Fuller's have too much of that expertise in house and so in order for the community to retain it as a live music/comedy venue then perhaps the community will need to show that it's a sustainable and profitable venture?

I don't recall how often they had acts on at the Half Moon, but even in places that are well known for music in the area (Windmill, which I love) you still have nights where the place is near empty.