Guardian infiltrates BNP

[TremulousTetra]

In terms of the SWP they're all over the place with UAF. On one hand they say that people were wrong to vote Chirac against Le Pen and then in this country they happily take up the vote anyone but the BNP line.

I think you need to to read the article.http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=8014

Whilst people in the party argued with the position, it is hardly all over the place, it is entirely consistent with the formation of respect and the political trajectory SW has taken. Whether you agree with this trajectory or not is another issue, but Harman was being consistent.

 

[cockneyrebel]

But seriously, in a number of wards to keep the BNP from winning a council seat the choice would be to vote Labour don't you think?

Agree but I wouldn't vote for a bourgeois party like the Tories, Lib Dems etc

Whilst people in the party argued with the position, it is hardly all over the place, it is entirely consistent with the formation of respect and the political trajectory SW has taken. Whether you agree with this trajectory or not is another issue, but Harman was being consistent.

How can you take the UAF line on one hand and say don't vote Chirac on the other?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Agree but I wouldn't vote for a bourgeois party like the Tories, Lib Dems etc



How can you take the UAF line on one hand and say don't vote Chirac on the other?

"In such a situation, for the left to withdraw in favour of the right is to play into his hands. There is a need to expose the phoniness of the arguments that Le Pen used to entice support from millions of embittered lower middle class and working class people. But there is also a need to present a genuine alternative to the status quo for such people. And you could not do that by urging a vote for Chirac.

That did not have to mean cutting yourself off from the mass of demonstrators who believed the Chirac vote could stop Le Pen. But it did mean saying to them, 'We don't agree, but let's act together over the things we do agree on--taking to the streets and exposing what Le Pen really stands for'."

Have you read the article, it is talking about the position of the revolutionary left. Specifically what are you talking about in the position of Unite against Fascism,? are you suggesting UAF is different from the anl, that the uaf is a popular front not a united front?Respect has stood in seats where the BNP have stood, on those occasions did UAF call for a vote for the bourgeois parties instead of respect?

 

[cockneyrebel]

I'm saying that the SWP are totally uncritical of the UAF and never once have I heard them say that the UAF are wrong to say "vote anyone but the BNP".

 

[nwnm]

no - they say don't vote nazi. The point is to build a political alternative as well <i.e. give them someone to vote for who doesn't worship the market> But that is not the task of UAF obviously.....

 

[cockneyrebel]

no - they say don't vote nazi. The point is to build a political alternative as well <i.e. give them someone to vote for who doesn't worship the market> But that is not the task of UAF obviously.....

Absolute bollox. On all the UAF stuff they say vote to stop the BNP, but they don't say who, it's literally a message of vote ANYONE but the BNP, whether this be Tory, Lib Dems, UKIP etc The SWP says nothing about this and doesn't criticise the UAF for saying this at all. This is in stark contrast to the the stance on Chirac.

 

[nwnm]

funnily enough in a united front which has people from DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTIES involved it would be a bit difficult to nominate any particular party that one person in UAF is a member of over another. What socialist worker says however is another thing entirely

 

[cockneyrebel]

You're missing my point. The Chirac artilce says the SWP will work in a united front but people vocal about their criticisms.

Not once have I seen the SWP criticise the UAF for saying vote anyone but the BNP.

 

[nwnm]

thats probably because we are also trying to build an alternative rather than talk about one....

 

[e19896]

A true united front is one that is ready and armed.

 

[JimPage]

The SWP seem to be moving to the position that the only long term solution to the BNP is political- whcih will hopefully lead to Respect taking on the BNP more at the ballot box in England.

There are 2 by-elections coming up in Burnley- inluding one in a ward that the BNP only very narrowly lost put in in May- perhaps this can be the starting point of taking them on in their own back yard?

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10495

 

[untethered]

The SWP seem to be moving to the position that the only long term solution to the BNP is political- whcih will hopefully lead to Respect taking on the BNP more at the ballot box in England.

Are you suggesting that R.E.S.P.E.C.T. are competing with the BNP for votes?

 

[JimPage]

Are you suggesting that R.E.S.P.E.C.T. are competing with the BNP for votes?

that seems to be what they intend to do, by taking them on in the same wards if i understand them correctly- but they actually have to start doing this. They have missed forthcoming by elections where the BNP are standing in Carlisle and Nuneaton, and it would be a good start to take them on in Burnley

 

[Streathamite]

that seems to be what they intend to do, by taking them on in the same wards if i understand them correctly- but they actually have to start doing this. They have missed forthcoming by elections where the BNP are standing in Carlisle and Nuneaton, and it would be a good start to take them on in Burnley

well that's pretty odd, cos they appeal to two entirely different social groupings; BNp to embitteed white w/c in urban areas - which means IWCA are pitching to roughly the same people - and WESPECK to M/C Wadicals, plus any muslims gullible enough to do whatever the MAB tells them to.
and if anything 'guided' by people as patronising, shrill and antagonising as the swappies takes on the BNP it's game over; our first BNP MP

 

[Fruitloop]

Admitting that would imply a degree of self-awareness that they've yet to display, however.

 

[Streathamite]

Admitting that would imply a degree of self-awareness that they've yet to display, however.

true - which is why their presence there would be a godsend to griffin and co

 

[JimPage]

well that's pretty odd, cos they appeal to two entirely different social groupings; BNp to embitteed white w/c in urban areas - which means IWCA are pitching to roughly the same people - and WESPECK to M/C Wadicals, plus any muslims gullible enough to do whatever the MAB tells them to.and if anything 'guided' by people as patronising, shrill and antagonising as the swappies takes on the BNP it's game over; our first BNP MP

the one thing which came out of last may`s local elections is that respect can appeal equally to the white working class and the muslim working class. the bnp have to be opposed politically, and if not by respect, by who? they have taken up the challenge to driving the bnp out of barking- who else has? I have a lot of tiem for the IWCA politically down south, but where are they?

 

[Streathamite]

the one thing which came out of last may`s local elections is that respect can appeal equally to the white working class

sorry - but balls. WESPECT got stuff all share of white w/c voters and if you think any different you are deluiding yourself, and they never will because no hard-pressed w/c bloke who sees his community trashed by the utter catastrophe the govt have turned immigration into likes being talked down to by pimply students and middle class journoes who haven't got a clue.
THAT - I am afraid, is the reality of the situation (speaking as a working class man living in such a community), so you quit the endless in-denial propagandising. it makes you look a fool.

 

[sheffieldboy]

Just mailed the ENB asking them if they think it's acceptable to employ someone on public money who is also a member of the BNP...

I just emailed them and told them how admirable it is that they have members who reflect the diversity of political allegiance to be found in a democracy and that they should ignore comments eminating from a silly juvenile anarchist board full of the usual womenless work and soap dodging polytechnic student deadbeats who believe in the absense of anything more purposeful to do in their lives, in propagating the novel idea that in a democracy people should be sacked from their jobs for the political persuasions that they hold.

 

[Streathamite]

I just emailed them and told them how admirable it is that they have members who reflect the diversity of political allegiance to be found in a democracy and that they should ignore comments eminating from a silly juvenile anarchist board full of the usual womenless work and soap dodging polytechnic student deadbeats who believe in the absense of anything more purposeful to do in their lives, in propagating the novel idea that in a democracy people should be sacked from their jobs for the political persuasions that they hold.

jesus why don't you go and give griffina BJ whilst you're at it?
lurrve the fact you got every r/w cli che in there as well - soapdodger, stoodent, juvenile anarchist....good to see reactionaries are so cliched, unoriginal and predictable as ever

 

[Fisher_Gate]

jesus why don't you go and give griffina BJ whilst you're at it?
lurrve the fact you got every r/w cli che in there as well - soapdodger, stoodent, juvenile anarchist....good to see reactionaries are so cliched, unoriginal and predictable as ever

I've got to admit though that I haven't heard the "polytechnic student deadbeat" cliche for a long time ... do you think someone should tell him there are no polytechnics any more?

 

[Streathamite]

I've got to admit though that I haven't heard the "polytechnic student deadbeat" cliche for a long time ... do you think someone should tell him there are no polytechnics any more?

nooo...his brain will explode at the thought that peasants like me can claim they wenrt to a University!

 

[JimPage]

sorry - but balls. WESPECT got stuff all share of white w/c voters and if you think any different you are deluiding yourself, and they never will because no hard-pressed w/c bloke who sees his community trashed by the utter catastrophe the govt have turned immigration into likes being talked down to by pimply students and middle class journoes who haven't got a clue.
THAT - I am afraid, is the reality of the situation (speaking as a working class man living in such a community), so you quit the endless in-denial propagandising. it makes you look a fool.

they who voted for them in areas like bristol and sheffield- in what i understand to be white working class wards? but if not respect, who?

 

[Darios]

Some of the hypocrisy on this thread is stomach churning.

"Love Music Hate Racism" eh?

The hardliners amongst you on the free speech front, I take it you will be calling Ghostface Killa and demanding he changes his name, or perhaps query Ice Cube about his support for the Nation of Islam and what exactly he means when he talks about killing "crackers" and "devils".

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I just emailed them and told them how admirable it is that they have members who reflect the diversity of political allegiance to be found in a democracy and that they should ignore comments eminating from a silly juvenile anarchist board full of the usual womenless work and soap dodging polytechnic student deadbeats who believe in the absense of anything more purposeful to do in their lives, in propagating the novel idea that in a democracy people should be sacked from their jobs for the political persuasions that they hold.

you really are going for it aren't you...

I've just read an AFA account of the battle of waterloo. Why do these accounts always revel in cruelty. I mean i don't care that they're boneheads. They're someone's children. How can you be so inhumane. The SWP are right the squaddies were exactly as bad as the fascists. Total shame on you all.

 

[audiotech]

silly, juvenile, anarchist, womenless, work[shy], soap dodging, polytechnic student, deadbeats.

[stormcunt/]