Guardian infiltrates BNP

[treelover]

yeah, and what about those nasty uppers?

 

[dennisr]

i was grassed by Sheridan for my part in that riot for which i have grate pride in doing so.

Then you are a liar as well as an idiot (and, probably a bit of a fantasist?)

I think you will find that "on the street" such an accusation had better have some serious evidence/proof. "on the web" (15 or so years later)you can talk whatever bollocks you want from a position of anonimity - but its not quite the same thing....

Please do not de rail the subject in hand

the person who raised it and lied was you. And you don't have the guts to admit you are not telling the truth.

Lets be frank - you did feck all to build the mass non-payment campaign did you?, you were not involved in the years long, slow, patient work building of aptu's on schemes and estates were you? - you are, frankly, a liar arn't you?

So, an ignorant half-arsed 'marxist' throwing stones in glass houses then?

 

[kyser_soze]

there is always a neo liberali about who say the far right have the right to free speach

Ah, so supporting free speech makes one a neo-liberal does it? So 'I might not agree with what you say...' instantly makes one a follower of Milton Friedman?

Twat.

we did defeat The Poll Tax

All on your own? So it had nothing to do with the broad base of support from all parts of society - old, young, left, some right, employed, unemployed? It was all down to the anarchists? Fuck me that's impressive

 

[e19896]

Then you are a liar as well as an idiot (and, probably a bit of a fantasist?)

I think you will find that "on the street" such an accusation had better have some serious evidence/proof. "on the web" (15 or so years later)you can talk whatever bollocks you want from a position of anonimity - but its not quite the same thing....



the person who raised it and lied was you. And you don't have the guts to admit you are not telling the truth.

Lets be frank - you did feck all to build the mass non-payment campaign did you?, you were not involved in the years long, slow, patient work building of aptu's on schemes and estates were you? - you are, frankly, a liar arn't you?

So, an ignorant half-arsed 'marxist' throwing stones in glass houses then?

fuck off

 

[JimPage]

btw, opposing immigration doe not make you a nazi, no wonder the far left is fucked...

no, but opposing immigration makes you a racist. she ,a nd the BNP are fascist, not nazi however

 

[JimPage]

BUT she's in the BNP and anything goes against the class enemy By all means necessary as Malcolm X said.

exactly. the harrasment she has been receving- and will continue to receive until such time as she resigns from the BNP, will be an effective deterrant that membership of the BNP.

The principle stands firm, no free speech for fascists.

 

[Nigel]

I aint an anarchist but a Marxist and yes while we did defeat The Poll Tax i was grassed by Sheridan for my part in that riot for which i have grate pride in doing so.

Please do not de rail the subject in hand with your crass remarks you know little of what work i do and what that involves if you desire a debate on The Poll Tax start another post it was a point as to why The BNP has come to where they are and i should have some understanding following my 25 years of being active.

I have seen what has hapend over those years at close hand and have a deep understanding why we are where we are today back to topic.

I did'nt realise that Sherriden actually did inform.

I'd be interested to know if you have any proof that he did????

 

[Nigel]

exactly. the harrasment she has been receving- and will continue to receive until such time as she resigns from the BNP, will be an effective deterrant that membership of the BNP.

The principle stands firm, no free speech for fascists.

Can you inforce that???????

 

[JimPage]

Can you inforce that???????

Yes- No Platform is enforced in Scotland - the BNP are not allowed to organise up here- and they know it. Every time they have tried to organise recenlty- the SSP have prevented them from doing so- and will do so again if they try to stand for election in May 2007

 

[TremulousTetra]

I think that the BNP position on the rights of others is hypocritical. I don't think that they should campaign against Gay couples using National Trust property (presumably for civil partnership ceremonies?) and I note that the Civil Liberties group which they formed does little for anyone who is not a BNP member. Having said that, I don't think that Gay people should join reactionary campaigns to limit personal freedom (however tempting that might sometimes be). Pointing out contradictions is one thing but using them as a rationalisation for contradicting ones own principles another. Justice has to be Universal.

I think that the vast majority of people in this country have the good sense to value diversity of lifestyle and of opinion. It is sometimes a fragile balance but it is one which we have to strike.

that is a Noble aspiration, an aspiration i share and hope to deliver in communism, but at the moment sadly only aspiration. in the real world I can think of half a dozen SW members who are either under attack or have recently been under attack in their workplaces because of their politics. Our response is to build a mass campaign (well as big as possible) to defend them. And there in lies the difference. Historically fascist grab control of the state to destroy people's civil liberties, Socialists should build a mass movements to force the will of the majority to defend democracy and civil rights.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Attica. Always the same with revolutionaries...I agree with your right to say anything...that I agree with...

that is complete rubbish. SW doesn't agree with what the Tories say, new Labour, the Liberals etc, but we wouldn't call for them to be treated in the same fashion as fascist's. It is nothing to do with disagreeing with them, it is everything to do with them being antidemocratic beyond acceptable parameters within a democracy.

secondly let's be clear, SW argues against the banning of fascist parties.

 

[audiotech]

Ah, the good old days. Now it'd be a prayer mat or a year's supply of Mecca Cola.

Your obsession with Islam wins first prize matey.

 

[mk12]

SW argues against the banning of fascist parties.

Martin Smith from LMHR told the carnival, “Haven’t the police got anything better to do – like arrest the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, or arrest the BNP.”

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=8753

 

[nwnm]

calling for someone to be arrested is not the same as calling for a state ban.... Martin smith was commenting on the fact that the police had arrested Pete Doherty just before he was due to play this event in 1999. it took place after the murder of Anthony Walker. Go on - keep trawling our archives to take quotes out of context. People might actually read the articles and see what date they're from.....

 

[mk12]

Still - "arrest the BNP"?! Do you support that?

And I believe it's from an issue in 2006. It's issue NUMBER 1999.

 

[nwnm]

your right on the number thing. which would make it around the time that the BNP did eventually get arrested after they were infiltrated for a TV prog. I'd have been happy if Griffin had gone down for this - so would most people. Shame the court case went the way it did. But Martin Smith was making an analogy with what happened with Doherty compared to the killers of stephenLawrence . What would you have said if you were on stage with anthony Walker's relatives? "Shame about your bruv an all, but we must make sure that people like Nick Griffin remain free at all costs; so that he can influence the next batch of potential racist murderers"

 

[audiotech]

Still - "arrest the BNP"?! Do you support that?

And I believe it's from an issue in 2006. It's issue NUMBER 1999.

Just imagine some BNP goon smacked you in the mouth on a demo Matt and the old bill got hold of the individual in question and said to you do you want to press charges for assault? I take it your answer would be no, let him go?

 

[mk12]

That would be arresting someone for smacking someone in the mouth.

 

[cockneyrebel]

that is complete rubbish. SW doesn't agree with what the Tories say, new Labour, the Liberals etc, but we wouldn't call for them to be treated in the same fashion as fascist's. It is nothing to do with disagreeing with them, it is everything to do with them being antidemocratic beyond acceptable parameters within a democracy.

Well that all depends on the circumstances.....in a revolutionary one you'd probably be in a pitched battle against the LP, Tories etc

And as for fascism no platform has fuck all to do with "them being antidemocratic beyond acceptable parameters within a democracy", what are you, a liberal? It's the fact that fascism uses violence on the streets to break up the workers movement, so tactics are needed to stop that.

calling for someone to be arrested is not the same as calling for a state ban.... Martin smith was commenting on the fact that the police had arrested Pete Doherty just before he was due to play this event in 1999. it took place after the murder of Anthony Walker. Go on - keep trawling our archives to take quotes out of context. People might actually read the articles and see what date they're from.....

Actually calling for the police to arrest someone for being in the BNP is pretty much in the same bracket as a state ban, I think you're being a bit semantic. But mind you the SWP often does the same juggling act when supporting the UAFs tactic of vote anyone but the BNP (liberals, tories, UKIP etc etc).....

 

[cockneyrebel]

Just imagine some BNP goon smacked you in the mouth on a demo Matt and the old bill got hold of the individual in question and said to you do you want to press charges for assault? I take it your answer would be no, let him go?

This is bollox, mk12 answers it above. That's totally different from saying arrest someone for being in the BNP.

Shame about your bruv an all, but we must make sure that people like Nick Griffin remain free at all costs; so that he can influence the next batch of potential racist murderers

Oh fuck off will you. "bruv", you patronising idiot........Whatever my differences with mk12 he certainly isn't saying he wants to keep Griffin free at all costs, he's saying arresting BNP members for being BNP members won't stop fascism.

Shame the court case went the way it did

Again what are you a liberal? The whole court case was bad whatever way it went and if Griffin had gone down it might have actually done the BNP good and allowed them to play the role of the martyr.

 

[nwnm]

actually the 'don't vote nazi' tactic goes back to the 1970's - but back then the labour party were more easily identifiable from the rest of the bunch

 

[cockneyrebel]

As far as I know the SWP still classify the LP as a bourgeois workers party, which is the key difference.

 

[audiotech]

This is bollox, mk12 answers it above. That's totally different from saying arrest someone for being in the BNP.

Still - "arrest the BNP"?! Do you support that?

I was taking that as written. No mention of arresting "someone for being in the BNP".

 

[cockneyrebel]

So this doesn't suggest just that then:

Haven’t the police got anything better to do – like arrest the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, or arrest the BNP

Which is the quote mk12 was talking about in the first place.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So this doesn't suggest just that then:



Which is the quote mk12 was talking about in the first place.

you already know SW don't call for the banning of fascist parties, never have done, and this guy was not "suggesting" the opposite to party policy. You're just b silly.

 

[audiotech]

So this doesn't suggest just that then:



Which is the quote mk12 was talking about in the first place.

No, only someone who belongs to some minute grouplet would spin it that way.

 

[cockneyrebel]

To be honest I think the quote was probably just a flippant comment, I was just pointing out what mk12 meant.

More to the point are nwnm's ridiculous comments about the court case outcome and mp3s comment about why you have no platform.

In terms of the SWP they're all over the place with UAF. On one hand they say that people were wrong to vote Chirac against Le Pen and then in this country they happily take up the vote anyone but the BNP line.

 

[TremulousTetra]

To be honest I think the quote was probably just a flippant comment, I was just pointing out what mk12 meant.

precisely. mk12 comments were spurious.

More to the point are nwnm's ridiculous comments about the court case outcome and mp3s comment about why you have no platform.

I was trying to speak in a fashion the guy I was at talking to could relate to, rather than talking in Socialist language. I admit what I wrote could have been written differently.

In terms of the SWP they're all over the place with UAF. On one hand they say that people were wrong to vote Chirac against Le Pen and then in this country they happily take up the vote anyone but the BNP line.

I only vaguely remember this, can you refresh my memory with a review/ISJ article?

 

[cockneyrebel]

I only vaguely remember this, can you refresh my memory with a review/ISJ article?

Sorry don't know where the relevant article is. But the SWP took a totally different line in France to the UAF here.

 

[audiotech]

Sorry don't know where the relevant article is. But the SWP took a totally different line in France to the UAF here.

I would even vote for you if it was likely to keep the BNP out.

But seriously, in a number of wards to keep the BNP from winning a council seat the choice would be to vote Labour don't you think?