Gross Misconduct Advice Please
- Thread starter Passdout
- Start date
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
No-one knows that he was pulling a fast one, because no-one's heard his side of it. The basis of all of this is that you should treat people fairly even if you end up dismissing them. And if you're running a business where competition is a particular issue, that you should take such legitimate and reasonable legal steps as you can to protect it.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
No reason why you should have known unless you've come across it before, it doesn't come up all that often.
Incidentally I've just gone and doubled checked and ETs don't have jurisdiction to hear counter-contract claims for a term which is a covenant in restraint of trade.
Hmm, I agree with this.
Obviously I have tried to summarise whats happened in the space of a few short posts, I havent tried to relate everything that has been said as this isnt a court.
Therefore, there is still a lot of information that I havent posted, things that were said to me by the Senior member of staff at the care home, things that were said to me when I confronted the guy concerned about it, etc, and they all point to the fact that my ex employee AND the care home knew that he worked for me on PAYE (not a sub-contractor) and that it was indeed going behind my back with cheaper offers of work.
I have mentioned to this guy a couple of times over the last few weeks that it was odd that we havent heard anything about any rooms at the care home, and we even had a chat about how bad it was that the residents were paying so much for rooms that obviously were not being decorated at the moment! He had plenty of opportunity to talk to me about it and chose not to. He was decieving me - no doubt in my mind about that!!
My understanding of Gross Misconduct is that in law, Gross Misconduct is conduct so bad that it destroys the employer/employee relationship. That has without doubt happened on this occasion.
It is down to me to investigate thoroughly (which I feel I have) and to confront the person concerned and listen to what they have to say about it (which I did) Also, as far as I understand, normal disciplinary procedures do not apply in Gross Misconduct, although I am sure someone will put me right if I am wrong.
He used my client contacts to gain private work for his own gains at the care home, and obviously this worked against the good of my firm. In turn, this has meant a downturn of business and loss of income for us. He therefore set up a competing business while working directly for me, and this, I felt amounts to Gross Misconduct.
I am guessing that the last few people that have posted in this thread work in this field, as I dont quiet understand some of the posts (Sorry, dont mean that nastily, I honestly dont understand much about the covenants etc)
Either way, lets make no mistake here, despite him and the care home doing something so reprehensible, I felt (and still feel) bloody awful for sacking him. Its the first time I have ever sacked someone and believe me I didnt make the decision lightly.
Still, it looks as if some of you may think differently.
This thread seems to have moved away from my original point, and now I feel backed into a corner so will not be posting more about it.
And finally, not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but here is a copy of a reference I got from the care home about 6 months ago, that another potential customer had asked for.
XXX have been working at XXX care home regularly since March 2007. During this time they have carried out extensive redecoration and other work in all areas of the home, including the dementia unit
The work has been of the highest standard, and the decorators have gone to great lengths to make sure that noise and other inconvenience is kept to a minimum, for the benefit of residents and staff
We have been extremely impressed with all aspects of the work, and with the polite and courteous attitude of XXX and his team.
We would have no hesitation in recommending XXX as a contractor to another business, ot to the general public.
Yours Faithfully
XXXX
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
what you're basically being told is that you would need to ensure that both the letter and spirit of employment law were carried out in order to protect yourself against possible tribunal action for the resulting dismissal.
In essence dismissal should be the last resort in any circumstances and you should ake every possible action to ensure that this outcome isn't predetermined (regardless of your personal feelings on the matter about being apparently stabbed in the back by a long term employee)
If you have not covered all aspects of employment law before taking the descsion to remove the employees role then you could be in an actionable position regarding the dismissal even if you personally feel that the right choice has been made.
this is protection measure largely designed to stop victimiseation or workplace bullyiong and has to be adhered to.
Failure to do so could result in damages beign awarded to the ex employee even if it's later decided that their actual actions were unresonable.
so as long as you have covered these aspects you should be fine if not then you might have an issue later on at tribunal....
It's not an attack to point out you should bea ware of this information and run the company accordingly (it's good advice to save you hassle time and money)
In essence dismissal should be the last resort in any circumstances and you should ake every possible action to ensure that this outcome isn't predetermined (regardless of your personal feelings on the matter about being apparently stabbed in the back by a long term employee)
If you have not covered all aspects of employment law before taking the descsion to remove the employees role then you could be in an actionable position regarding the dismissal even if you personally feel that the right choice has been made.
this is protection measure largely designed to stop victimiseation or workplace bullyiong and has to be adhered to.
Failure to do so could result in damages beign awarded to the ex employee even if it's later decided that their actual actions were unresonable.
so as long as you have covered these aspects you should be fine if not then you might have an issue later on at tribunal....
It's not an attack to point out you should bea ware of this information and run the company accordingly (it's good advice to save you hassle time and money)
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Passdout, if you want to learn anything, and be fair, and protect your business for the future - you have to get your head round this shit.
It's not about backing you into a corner - there's loads of information here and presented in a way that isn't slagging you off.
What you do with the information is entirely a matter for you.
It's not about backing you into a corner - there's loads of information here and presented in a way that isn't slagging you off.
What you do with the information is entirely a matter for you.
I know I said I wasnt going to post again but
Ive just read my last post again. I am feeling really depressed about the whole thing at the moment, and can see that I am being completely hyper sensitive about it all.
It is good advice. I should get my head around it, and I do genuinely appreciate the help. My apologies for the last post.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Good. Fuck him.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I know I said I wasnt going to post again but
Ive just read my last post again. I am feeling really depressed about the whole thing at the moment, and can see that I am being completely hyper sensitive about it all.
It is good advice. I should get my head around it, and I do genuinely appreciate the help. My apologies for the last post.
Just review what you're doing and make changes if you have to. If there's a risk of a breach of contract claim, then ask advice about that.
There are shitloads of employers and employees alike that do things that fuck things up for everyone. All you can do is try and not fall into that trap.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Can't, read the 1st page, posting from a phone...
It progressed from there. I fekkin hate trying to post from phones 
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
Yep.
Ethically, you are on 100 percent solid ground, in my opinion. I don't know enough about UK employment law to comment on the legal issue, but i will say that if UK employment law somehow prevents you from sacking someone who has gone out of his way to shaft his own employer like this, then the law is an ass.
I wonder if the OP, having sacked this guy, is intending to take on another employee to replace him? If so, then the sacking becomes, if possible, even more justified.
In these tough economic times, there are plenty of people who need a job and an income. If i were in the position to give a job to someone, and was choosing between a person who needed work but had already stabbed me in the back, and a person who needed work but had not stabbed me in the back, i know which person i'd choose. There is no net loss to society, because someone who needs a job gets a job. The only difference is that the job goes to someone who isn't a backstabber.
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