Grooverider arrested in Dubai!

[jæd]

By the way: How many Westerners coming to chase -or spend - the cash think about the imported work forces labouring day after day, no matter the conditions and the temperature (never rises above 48 degrees because when it goes higher, work has to stop) to construct accomodation and fantasies?

So what...? Everytime I stay in a hotel I should checkout how said hotel treats it workers...?

Saudi Arabia should put its own house in order and not have to wait until "Westerners" decide not to holiday there...

 

[bouncer_the_dog]

Wouldn't be quite the same if it was the 'Fitrzroy and Raymond Jungle Show' on Radio 1 would it?

It would be better...

 

[kyser_soze]

So you think Grooverider - a black DJ - was really riding on the ole colonialist mentality when he did this eh, Aldy?

By the way: How many Westerners coming to chase -or spend - the cash think about the imported work forces labouring day after day, no matter the conditions and the temperature (never rises above 48 degrees because when it goes higher, work has to stop) to construct accomodation and fantasies?

About as many as the hypocritical locals who impound said workers passports as a condition of their employment; as much as the local coroners who report most deaths by heat exhaustion as cardiac arrests.

Oh, and you don't think a black man would be more likely to be searched in Dubai?

 

[perplexis]

. rubbish double post

 

[perplexis]

So what...? Everytime I stay in a hotel I should checkout how said hotel treats it workers...?

Blimey, that's a humane attitude you've got going on there.
I think you should care, at the very least.

 

[jæd]

Blimey, that's a humane attitude you've got going on there.
I think you should care, at the very least.

I'd be interested in where I can find out information on how specific hotels treat their workforce...?

 

[perplexis]

I'd be interested in where I can find out information on how specific hotels treat their workforce...?

Oh, right, sorry. Misinterpreted you.
Anyways, back on topic.
Grooveride- what a nob. Why would you try to get weed into a country which takes it so damn seriously?

 

[spacemonkey]

Oh, right, sorry. Misinterpreted you.
Anyways, back on topic.
Grooveride- what a nob. Why would you try to get weed into a country which takes it so damn seriously?

Do you know some details of the case we don't?

For all we know it could have been a tiny bud at the bottom of his bag he didn't even know about. I met someone refused entry to New Zealand for a few crumbs of weed in a cd wallet he'd used to skin up on months before.

The porn is pretty stupid, but hardly something to condemn the man over.

 

[JTG]

So what...? Everytime I stay in a hotel I should checkout how said hotel treats it workers...?

Saudi Arabia should put its own house in order and not have to wait until "Westerners" decide not to holiday there...

We're not talking about Saudi Arabia

 

[david dissadent]

We just need the good old days of ligitimate slavery back to solve the problems.

By the way: How many Westerners coming to chase -or spend - the cash think about the imported work forces labouring day after day, no matter the conditions and the temperature (never rises above 48 degrees because when it goes higher, work has to stop) to construct accomodation and fantasies?

salaam.

Pathetic. You have fallen very far in my estimation, not that it seems it will bother you.

 

[bluestreak]

I agree with you dd, that's a pretty shite argument old Alde is showing there.

 

[Aldebaran]

Pathetic. You have fallen very far in my estimation, not that it seems it will bother you.

Not really, no, seen the simple fact that you could also had given it a try to discover sarcasm, especially where it is so blatantly obviously painted that you litteraly trip over it.
Pathetic is the right word indeed.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree with you dd, that's a pretty shite argument old Alde is showing there.

Yes, join the ranks please.
This is againone of these occasions where I ask myself why I even bother to post here. No doubt a serious flaw in my ability to reason logically.
Now doesn't that make me human... It feels almost reassuring.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

So you think Grooverider - a black DJ - was really riding on the ole colonialist mentality when he did this eh, Aldy?

I don't know the person but being black never prevented anyone born in the West to be Western, educated Western. Or do you make such a difference?

About as many as the hypocritical locals who impound said workers passports as a condition of their employment; as much as the local coroners who report most deaths by heat exhaustion as cardiac arrests.

I'm not exactly involved in construction business, but as far as I'm informed "locals" order and pay while the work force is import. Including contractors and especailly subcontractors, the level where the most scandalous abuse and exploitation takes place, actually.
As for death certificates: Never saw one but I imagine it easily to happen. Imagine the embarassment for contractors and sub contractors when relatives by accident somehow get informed on how their loved ones really died.

Easy enough to detect similar slavery conditions and exploitation anywhere in the world. (Or do you claim it doesn't happen in your country?)

and you don't think a black man would be more likely to be searched in Dubai?

Not being black and not working as border control or any civil servant occupation in Dubai (or anywhere else) I have no direct view on that. It's not exactly ranked among my favourite places to be.

salaam.

 

[ska invita]

What I would be interested to know is if it was gay porn. Rumour has had it for a long time that Grooverider is gay, despite having a kid.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, if he did take the drugs and porn there then he has been very stupid, but I would hope that he (and anyone else in his situation) did not have to spend time in prison for what is essentially a victimless crime.

Rule 1: If you that much disagree with a country's legal system, don't go there.
Rule 2. If you still go there, do not run around acting as if the law doesn't count for you.
Rule 3: If you are that stupidly arrogant, do not complain if reality teaches you that you are not a shred better than the country's own citizens.

salaam.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

Rule 1: If you that much disagree with a country's legal system, don't go there.
Rule 2. If you still go there, do not run around acting as if the law doesn't count for you.
Rule 3: If you are that stupidly arrogant, do not complain if reality teaches you that you are not a shred better than the country's own citizens.

salaam.

I agree

 

[david dissadent]

Not really, no, seen the simple fact that you could also had given it a try to discover sarcasm, especially where it is so blatantly obviously painted that you litteraly trip over it.
Pathetic is the right word indeed.

salaam.

We just need the good old days of ligitimate slavery back to solve the problems.

By the way: How many Westerners coming to chase -or spend - the cash think about the imported work forces labouring day after day, no matter the conditions and the temperature (never rises above 48 degrees because when it goes higher, work has to stop) to construct accomodation and fantasies?

your sarcasm deliberately exagerates the problem in a manner to dismiss it lightly, that we are overplaying it, then you immediatly deflect it onto another anti western rant. No where in your post do you even begin to suggest there is any criticism of this behaviour by Arab states in yourself.

You post is total evasion of the problem. In fact a quick re-read makes me wonder if you do not believe that white westerns are the core cause of abuse of non Arab nationals from the third world.

When you have the courage to admit the problem lies within Arab societies and when you seem concerend for those being ill treated by Arab governments and peoples, then you can begin to discuss the small number of expats who indulge in living of the back of such abuse.

Imagine if a nation in the European Union had such practices common place with it. When ever they are uncovered the entire public rises in disgust, not happily joins in.

 

[Aldebaran]

What is it with muslim/arab men and their fear of their women getting shagged by someone else? A bit generalised but Hijabs, not allowed to mix with non related males yadda yadda.........??

Sorry, have to leave now to beat my wives.

salaam.

 

[JTG]

What I would be interested to know is if it was gay porn. Rumour has had it for a long time that Grooverider is gay, despite having a kid.

I wouldn't be interested in that at all. Largely 'cos I'm not a curtain twitching prat who takes an unhealthy interest in other people's private lives.

 

[Aldebaran]

your sarcasm deliberately exagerates the problem in a manner to dismiss it lightly, that we are overplaying it, then you immediatly deflect it onto another anti western rant.

No, I don't.

No where in your post do you even begin to suggest there is any criticism of this behaviour by Arab states in yourself.

You should read again. With 100% more attention and 100% less prejudice.

You post is total evasion of the problem. In fact a quick re-read makes me wonder if you do not believe that white westerns are the core cause of abuse of non Arab nationals from the third world.

Your mind walks mysterious roads.

When you have the courage to admit the problem lies within Arab societies and when you seem concerend for those being ill treated by Arab governments and peoples, then you can begin to discuss the small number of expats who indulge in living of the back of such abuse.

a) Read my posts again.
b) "Arab societies"?
c) Arab governments?
d) Arab peoples?

meaning b+c+d=1?

Interesting proposition. Sadly not one that matches reality. (Would b+c+d=1, we would have a caliphate. Dreamed and pursued up to this very day, since the very beginning of Islamic History and indeed started and shortly lived by Arabs.)

Imagine if a nation in the European Union had such practices common place with it. When ever they are uncovered the entire public rises in disgust, not happily joins in.

Let's take only one simple example: Imagine all the well known and very eagerly used, and by times even legally endorsed and tolerated (you could also call it state organised) exploitation of women, boys and children of both genders in the sex trafficking and porn industry within the European Union.
I don't see the public nor the media rise en masse in disgust. Maybe I missed it.

salaam.

 

[david dissadent]

You are seem incapable of being remotely apologetic about the treatment of third world nationals in Arab countries. Not the faintest whiff of being ashamed of it.

 

[david dissadent]

Let's take only one simple example: Imagine all the well known and very eagerly used, and by times even legally endorsed and tolerated (you could also call it state organised) exploitation of women, boys and children of both genders in the sex trafficking and porn industry within the European Union.
I don't see the public nor the media rise en masse in disgust. Maybe I missed it.

salaam.

Pure evasion that is not the issue. Start your own thread on this.

 

[kyser_soze]

I don't know the person but being black never prevented anyone born in the West to be Western, educated Western. Or do you make such a difference?



I'm not exactly involved in construction business, but as far as I'm informed "locals" order and pay while the work force is import. Including contractors and especailly subcontractors, the level where the most scandalous abuse and exploitation takes place, actually.
As for death certificates: Never saw one but I imagine it easily to happen. Imagine the embarassment for contractors and sub contractors when relatives by accident somehow get informed on how their loved ones really died.

Easy enough to detect similar slavery conditions and exploitation anywhere in the world. (Or do you claim it doesn't happen in your country?)



Not being black and not working as border control or any civil servant occupation in Dubai (or anywhere else) I have no direct view on that. It's not exactly ranked among my favourite places to be.

salaam.

Evasion and flim flam. You're loosing it.

 

[Aldebaran]

You are seem incapable of being remotely apologetic about the treatment of third world nationals in Arab countries. Not the faintest whiff of being ashamed of it.

*Ashamed*?? Why would I cultivate "guilt" for something I have no personal involvement with and/or no direct influence or control over? You are joking, right?

Maybe you are a bit confused, so let me inform you about what my personal responsibilities are:
If I see or know a Muslim who violates Islamic commands (which, as I may hope you know, any form of exploitation etc.. is) it is my duty and responsibility to tell him to correct it. As a scholar I target and reach Muslims in and beyond the Arab world and those who ask for or seek guidance.
That is where my responsibilities concerning the public sphere are.
In my personal life I strive to live like a Muslim should. That includes - as I hope you know - treating people who work for me with respect and the way they should be, paying them the way they should be rewarded.
I have no inclination to cultivate a "guilt", let alone *shame* for what some others do, be it on a large or small scale, visible or not.


You have a very suspicious and very uninformed attitude with acting as if every Arab exploits immigrants, let alone the fact that you clearly cultivated such a blind prejudice that you became even unable to read my posts as they should be read.
If you want to express your feelings concerning exploitation in some environments & industries, in whatever country, I suggest you contact their diplomatic post in yours. You can also contact the governments of the well known Western nations who hold such a large umbrella over governments who clearly know what goes on. Oh wait.. those are the Great Friends of the West, among which the guardians of the Holy Cow called Oil.

If it is your intention to address someone who is as unrealistic in his approach as you clearly are, you need to look elswhere.

salaam.

 

[jæd]

*Ashamed*?? Why would I cultivate "guilt" for something I have no personal involvement with and/or no direct influence or control over? You are joking, right?

Yet you acknowledge it goes on and turn a blind eye towards it. How very like you that is...!

As a scholar I target and reach Muslims in and beyond the Arab world and those who ask for or seek guidance

Go then, where do you teach...? Or are you another one of these BS artists who make a point of their qualifications but then hide them when asked....

 

[Aldebaran]

Yet you acknowledge it goes on and turn a blind eye towards it. How very like you that is...!

I don't have blind eyes.
So what do you propose I would do?
Buy up all companies with exploitative policies and while I am at also overthrow governments who "turn a blind eye" (insert here then also the names of the umbrella holders please)?
You do know how damaging that would be to Western investors, who clearly know what goes on, actively participate in it by ordering bying selling and/or using the end products and are happy enough if that comes with a price lowered by the exploitation of immigrant work forces? Or should I exclude them. How to do that?

Thank you for drafting perfect waterthight plans for all this. If finished, do let me know.

Go then, where do you teach...? Or are you another one of these BS artists who make a point of their qualifications but then hide them when asked....

Q: Why don't I post up my name and home address?
A: I'm not retarded.
Q: Why does someone think I would post up name and address on a wordlwide accessable medium?
A: fill in at choice.

salaam.

 

[chico enrico]

funny that he couldn't go a couple of days without a smoke or pulling his parrot to some scud film, whatever the risk he knew he was taking

 

[david dissadent]

*Ashamed*?? Why would I cultivate "guilt" for something I have no personal involvement with and/or no direct influence or control over? You are joking, right?

Pathetic. You are truly a pathetic human. I feel truly sorry for the hole inside you.

I feel shame and do not have to cultivate it. I feel shame that naturaly flows from my sense of common bond with other humans. I feel shame for the treatment of the migrant workers in Arabia, for the treatment of the Palastinians in the occupied territories and for the treatment in this country of our poverty bound elderly. I feel shame because I am bound by common humanity to both the victim and perperators. But being human the closer in culture and identity I am to those commiting acts the more I feel that I am part of that which sanctions the bombings of suburbs of Baghdad from the air and the abuses in sweatshops in far off Asia. I am human enough not too need to cultivate guilt. It is innate in my bonds with my fellow humans.

So go back into your ivory tower shut from your brothers and sisters and make your endless pronouncements on morality and law. You talk a good game but it is empty, even if clever, scholastic rhetoric. Aimed at reinfrocing your concieted and racist veiw of the west, that every single problem in the Arab world you discuss always ends up blaming the west or referring to the west to mitigate what is done.

 

[jæd]

I don't have blind eyes.
So what do you propose I would do?
Buy up all companies with exploitative policies and while I am at also overthrow governments who "turn a blind eye" (insert here then also the names of the umbrella holders please)?

What do you think people do when there are "exploitative policies" here...? They organise themselves, lobby, and attempt to reform the laws. Not just through their hands up and say "What can I do, I can do nothing..."...

You do know how damaging that would be to Western investors, who clearly know what goes on, actively participate in it by ordering bying selling and/or using the end products and are happy enough if that comes with a price lowered by the exploitation of immigrant work forces? Or should I exclude them. How to do that?

Can not you not do anything purely because its your home...?

Q: Why don't I post up my name and home address?
A: I'm not retarded.
Q: Why does someone think I would post up name and address on a wordlwide accessable medium?
A: fill in at choice.

Not asking for your name + address. Just the institution you teach at. Because otherwise I cry "Bullshit you do...!"