Griffin Cleared.

[cockneyrebel]

Don't you think I've got a point about the BNP image? Surely they could of done a better job of it?

Well I'm sure they wouldn't be physically intimidated by David Beckham or Joe Cole.

Here is where hypocrisy comes into it. People will generally accept that but when its single women travelling on the train and they hold their bags tighter when a group of black youths come past....

It's all ignorance, probably understandable ignorance in light of peoples life experiences but it is what it is.

When I said "that image" I didn't mean someone just having a shaven head, there's more to it than that. It's a whole package that I can see end up being intimidating.

But that's totally different from someone saying they find "white youths" intimidating. It would more be the equivalent of someone saying they find groups of rude boys intimidating, and to be honest I can see where that comes from.

 

[LLETSA]

All I'm saying is that PR, like it or not, does play a part in politics, and I thought the BNP would wanna try and present a different image than the one in the video link and what I saw on TV. Griffin has said that himself, and said the image of the BNP has to change. Now given how much massive publicity they knew they were gonna get for this I'm just surprised they didn't think about it a bit more and present a bit of a different image.

Have you thought that they might only be able to 'present' an image of the people who actually turned up to show support?

On Stormfront, they're always arguing about it usually being the same old faces who bother to turn up for events like this. Despite the amount of bigging themselves up that goes on, you do get admissions that they are considerably weaker than they might at first appear in terms of an activist base, and that much of the membership remains a paper membership.

 

[cockneyrebel]

But that was exactly my original point when I first started posting on the thread. That their votes, as of yet, haven't increased their activist base very significantly.

Then people started saying that the crowd in the background wasn't just the usual suspects, so I was asking why, in that case, they didn't have the nous not to just have the usual suspects (security or otherwise) in the camera shots. But as it goes I'm still very sceptical that the crowd was, by and large, anything but the usual suspects. Especially given what ihateblair has said.

 

[LLETSA]

How you can know they were "rough working class blokes" and not long term fascists I don't know. As ihateblair said I doubt many run of the mill racists would be chanting "marxist scum off our streets".

Why is it so difficult for 'rough working class blokes' to learn the simple inverting of the standard ANL/UAF chant of 'Nazi scum off our streets?'

 

[cockneyrebel]

Why is it so difficult for 'rough working class blokes' to learn the simple inverting of the standard ANL/UAF chant of 'Nazi scum off our streets?'

I wasn't the one who started the "rough working class blokes" tag!!

But in terms of the chants, I reckon a lot more people would find the chant "marxist scum off our streets" a lot more cranky than "nazi scum off our streets", maybe I'm wrong.

 

[LLETSA]

But that was exactly my original point when I first started posting on the thread. That their votes, as of yet, haven't increased their activist base very significantly.

Then people started saying that the crowd in the background wasn't just the usual suspects, so I was asking why, in that case, they didn't have the nous not to just have the usual suspects (security or otherwise) in the camera shots. But as it goes I'm still very sceptical that the crowd was, by and large, anything but the usual suspects. Especially given what ihateblair has said.

It seems to be more of a mixed picture, with many of the newer members willing to get involved in 'normal' political activity like canvassing, but more hesitant to attend the more confrontational events. Although undoubtedly some will.

And, as somebody else points out above, cropped hair has been mainstream for quite a while now-since about 1984, in some circles, in fact, and more generally since the early 1990s. Yet you still get the knee-jerk leftie reaction of skinhead haircut='Nazi.' (Not having a go at you there, by the way.)

You also have to laugh about all the references in the media about Griffin being 'flanked by burly minders.' Who do they expect him to be flanked by? Emaciated dwarves? Does anybody have minders who are not 'burly?'

 

[LLETSA]

I wasn't the one who started the "rough working class blokes" tag!!

But in terms of the chants, I reckon a lot more people would find the chant "marxist scum off our streets" a lot more cranky than "nazi scum off our streets", maybe I'm wrong.

I think most people might be more than a little perturbed by either chant.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I think most people might be more than a little perturbed by either chant.

What you say about the newer members sounds a reasonable explanation to me. When they do start turning the votes into more active members that will be very worrying.

 

[ihateblair]

It's also worth remembering that these protests in Leeds have been on Weekdays daytime so it's mostly the really hardcore Nazis or full-time organisers there from across the country.

The local campaigns they have eg. 'Mothers Against Paedophiles' in Keighley may well attract far more ordinary racists, as these demonstrations might well have done had they been at weekends.

We can't look at the demos and say with any certainty that the BNP have not recruited fascists from racist voters significantly elsewhere.

 

[JimPage]

Now given how much massive publicity they knew they were gonna get for this I'm just surprised they didn't think about it a bit more and present a bit of a different image.

his security team are indeed uglybugs - but they were clearly needed based on the antifascist turnout in leeds. what exactly do you do with a 6ft 2in 18 stone brickhouse to soften his image?

whatever- dont use the appearance of this security team to hide that the BNP threat is a political one, at the ballot box- by a reformed, euronationalist BNP. an article in their newspaper in January mentioned they claim to be 50% female now- and expect a rash of media fredindly women canddiates at the polls in May 2006

 

[nino_savatte]

It's also worth remembering that these protests in Leeds have been on Weekdays daytime so it's mostly the really hardcore Nazis or full-time organisers there from across the country.

The local campaigns they have eg. 'Mothers Against Paedophiles' in Keighley may well attract far more ordinary racists, as these demonstrations might well have done had they been at weekends.

We can't look at the demos and say with any certainty that the BNP have not recruited fascists from racist voters significantly elsewhere.

In many respects these front groups remind me of what the RCP did in the 80's with The Irish Solidarity Movement and War Against Racism.

 

[leec1]

who are you referring to as vile dogs?? please tell im interested

It seems that the three main partys have more in common with the BNP than they have with other minority partys. Our Labour Home Secretary and his predecessor have pushed forward the message that Labour are now an anti immigration Party. The same Party have recently failed to pass a bill that would ensure that "Jerry Springer - The Opera" was banned. The only difference between Blair and Griffin is that Griffin doesn't send his vile dogs out to kill and torture Asians on foreign soil.

 

[gorski]

Anyone remembers that prominent Nazi [the Germany's ruling bastards, not nowadays poor sods] mumbling rather honestly about his distaste for bourgeois order and how - what, with him being a scoundrel and a violent bastard - turmoil and war is always preferred...?!?

It's been a while since I saw that quote - rather revealing...

 

[Engineer]

I find much of what is posted here rather distastefull. I myself am a 'rough working class bloke with no Hair up top' OK not so rough these days and my lack of hair is more to do with being the wrong side of Fourty and my wife insisting I crop the rest off and the estate I grew up on wasn't the rough one but the one that people wait 10 years to get on - you get the drift-but the Idea that this somehow informs my behavior or makes me likely to despise people because of their colour is just plain lower middle class prejudice against those of us that they are a little too frightened of being too near.

Griffen shouldn't have been convicted because he didn't break the law. I belive strongly in freedom of speech -and that means freedom for the BNP,for Muslims,for the ultra left -for everyone -its what people actually do that is important .If Griffen told people to 'Go out and attack muslims' then he commits an offence at rightfully goes down -otherwise not.

 

[LLETSA]

I find much of what is posted here rather distastefull. I myself am a 'rough working class bloke with no Hair up top' OK not so rough these days and my lack of hair is more to do with being the wrong side of Fourty and my wife insisting I crop the rest off and the estate I grew up on wasn't the rough one but the one that people wait 10 years to get on - you get the drift-but the Idea that this somehow informs my behavior or makes me likely to despise people because of their colour is just plain lower middle class prejudice against those of us that they are a little too frightened of being too near.

Griffen shouldn't have been convicted because he didn't break the law. I belive strongly in freedom of speech -and that means freedom for the BNP,for Muslims,for the ultra left -for everyone -its what people actually do that is important .If Griffen told people to 'Go out and attack muslims' then he commits an offence at rightfully goes down -otherwise not.

Haven't half the posters in this thread argued against the view that cropped hair/working class equals racist?

 

[audiotech]

In many respects these front groups remind me of what the RCP did in the 80's with The Irish Solidarity Movement and War Against Racism.

My memories of the ISM and WAR is that their lifespan was very short and they involved insignificant numbers. Their activities involved putting up glossy posters and holding conferences with stupid titles like "Preparing for Power".

 

[cockneyrebel]

Haven't half the posters in this thread argued against the view that cropped hair/working class equals racist?

More than that, has anyone on this thread argued that cropped hair/working class equals racist, or come anywhere near saying that?

 

[nino_savatte]

My memories of the ISM and WAR is that their lifespan was very short and they involved insignificant numbers. Their activities involved putting up glossy posters and holding conferences with stupid titles like "Preparing for Power".

"Preparing for Power" always used to make me laugh!

 

[ViolentPanda]

"Preparing for Power" always used to make me laugh!

I always took that as meaning they were getting rid of the gaslights in their office and the steam-driven printing press and replacing it with electrickery.

 

[nino_savatte]

I always took that as meaning they were getting rid of the gaslights in their office and the steam-driven printing press and replacing it with electrickery.

Can you see Frank Furedi peddling furiously away to power his generator in order to get this week's edition of The Next Step out on the streets? I can't...that's a job for the minions.