Green Party - doing New labours dirty work

[chilango]

I don't assume they're allied. I just didn't think they were actually open enemies. But I'm much enlightened now.

Enemies? Allies?

They are competing political parties. No more, no less. Surely?

 

[JoePolitix]

When has having socialists elected done any good whatsoever? Come to that, when have Trevor Phillips and all the other scumbag "community leaders" who claim to represent minority and "oppressed" groups done anything of use to working class people of any race or gender?

Whereas the achievements of the UK's lilly white anarchoid "libertarians" and "left" commubots are so vast they're almost unlistable.

Well lets try anyway.

There's two really shite message boards, Kitten on Big Brother and er.... er....

p.s Trevor Phillips is no proponent of multiculturalism

p.p.s Fuck Libertarianism

 

[In Bloom]

Whereas the achievements of the UK's lilly white anarchoid "libertarians" and "left" commubots are so vast they're almost unlistable.

Well lets try anyway.

There's two really shite message boards, Kitten on Big Brother and er.... er....

Yawn. As usual, you mouth off about things you haven't a clue about and end up talking shite.

For a start, Kitten Pinder was a Trot and a member of the AWL, so you didn't even get that part right. Secondly, unlike most Leninists, I don't style myself as some great vanguardist superhero, come to save the proletariat from their own false consciousness, so what the "anarchist" scene in the UK has achieved is a matter of supreme indifference to me.

p.s Trevor Phillips is no proponent of multiculturalism

He is when it's convenient.

p.p.s Fuck Libertarianism

Including Chomsky?

 

[Das Uberdog]

They are this year. I think Preston Town Close (sitting Respect councillor) and Sheffield Central (sitting Green councillor) are where the clashes might be significant. We are not moaning about it on boards too much because we are actually out campaigning.

Last year, the consensus seems to be that Greens cost Respect a seat in Town Close (not a sitting councillor), while Respect cost the Greens a seat in Clissold ward in Hackney (not a sitting councillor). The Lib Dems claim we cost them dozens of seats (and moan about it on other boards), so we are used to this kind of whinging.

Frankly, our fairly inexperienced Preston team was aiming to stand in 4 wards. It didn't happen due to 2 candidates deciding not to stand and one nomination cock up. They probably didn't get the support they needed regionally because Lancaster, Liverpool and Manchester are all focused on winning seats locally.

Out of regard for Lavalette's general record, there was no planned campaign for Town Close. Our target was going to be University ward, where we had leafleted earlier in the year. However, I think based on certain events after nominations closed in Preston, and the fact we don't now have an alternative, there is a desire locally to actually do something in Town Close.

There has been no regional or national suggestion we campaign. My personal position is that if Respect decide to actively campaign in Sheffield (or have already done so), you'd rapidly see resources made available by the national party to the Preston team in response. Otherwise this remains up to the local team to decide how to handle it.

Like I said last year, the soft cuddly Greens are gone now. We don't cave in to bully boy tactics. You'll find us campaigning against the BNP directly, as well as part of anti-racist teams, and expect about 25 to 30 Green council seat gains this May.

This is quoted for sheer shite.

For starters, it's Town Centre Ward. Secondly - there is a blatant lack of campaigning from the Greens. Whatever you might like to think about your Preston position, let me tell you it is nothing. You have no chance of winning the ward. Last year you gained 87 votes to come last, and we lost the ward by 7 votes.

Thirdly - there are no bully-boy tactics in Preston, only pussy wanker tactics. Respect have attempted to make alliances and pacts with the Greens nationally since day one; Preston is no different. Lavalette visited the Green candidate for this election to ask him not to stand before nominations went in. The Green candidate afterwards filed an official complaint and claimed that the Respect group had used 'physical intimidation' to try and coerce him from standing.

Fourthly - I know a Green, he's a complete knob.

Fithly - as stated earlier, the quantifiable and therefore indisputable difference between Greens standing against Reds and Reds standing against Greens (at least in terms of Respect) is that when the Greens stand against us, it does not necessarily have as much to do with wanting to win the seat as wanting to undermine Respect's position. However, Respect will not stand in wards where we do not think we can win. Therefore, the Greens show that they would rather have New Labour than progressive leftwing parties, whilst Respect are blatantly agains this posiiton.

The reason the Greens don't moan is because if they did, they'd be so obviously full of fucking shite that they'd either die of shame or be ripped to shreds by someone who actually knew what a bunch of lazy, cowardly, snidy and sneaky loser wankers they are.

I like my Greens boiled or occasionally fried, no exceptions.

 

[Tom A]

The few Greens (including a Green councillor who also is a part-time lecturer at my uni) I have met are pretty sound IMO. Also I personally would vote Green over Respect (who are hardly without flaws themselves).

 

[JoePolitix]

For a start, Kitten Pinder was a Trot and a member of the AWL, so you didn't even get that part right.

Sorry mate but by the time of BB she had ditched the AWL and become an anarchist - she was one of your gang!

Oh you big hypocrite - you collectively slag of the entire left and then when the same is done back about your tradition you get all indignant.

And I do wish Chompers would ditch his Libertarian delusions.

 

[mk12]

And I do wish Chompers would ditch his Libertarian delusions...

...and cheerlead South American Presidents all day!

 

[In Bloom]

Sorry mate but by the time of BB she had ditched the AWL and become an anarchist - she was one of your gang!

Oh you big hypocrite - you collectively slag of the entire left and then when the same is done back about your tradition you get all indignant.

Bless, you really think you've annoyed me, don't you?

Oh, and FYI, there is no singular "anarchist" or "libertarian" tradition. And Pinder's never been one of mine, silly, liberal, crypto-trotskyite dickhead that she is.

 

[JoePolitix]

...and cheerlead South American Presidents all day!

Chomsky is quite a fan of Chavez actually - the reverse is also true:

 

[JoePolitix]

Bless, you really think you've annoyed me, don't you?

Oh, and FYI, there is no singular "anarchist" or "libertarian" tradition.

Yes there is - you're all the same!

(apart from Chomsky - who's really a crypto-Leninist)

 

[newbie]

Didn't say you should, but if we have a candidate who is a socialist, and it turns out they are also the right side of 30, and they're Asian (in a racist society) and female (in a sexist society) then that's another three reasons (as well as their politics) why a big vote for them is very positive.

Or perhaps the Left should stay 'male, pale and stale'?

the right side of 30! the arrogance of silly student evangelists truly beggars belief

 

[mk12]

Yes there is - you're all the same!

(apart from Chomsky - who's really a crypto-Leninist)

"Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism..."

not much crypto in that!

 

[JoePolitix]

"Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism..."

not much crypto in that!

On the contrary Matt - his quote reveals how deep his crypto Leninism is.

Equally I've always suspected you of being a crypto Marxist of some sort - come on and admit it

 

[mk12]

"If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left."

ouch.

 

[JoePolitix]

"If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left."

Dam he's good...

 

[JoePolitix]

Anarchoid exposes Chomsky's crypto-Leninism

Far from the least of his shortcomings is intellectual inconsistency. He regularly receives criticism from anarchists and others on the libertarian left for his claims to be an anarchist, and the peculiarly statist nature of his "anarchism." In the past, he has referred to the difference between his "goals" and "visions." His long-term vision is to abolish the state and devolve power to a federation of direct democracies. But since our society is dominated by concentrations of private power, it is necessary first of all to strengthen the power of the state to dismantle corporate power. Therefore, his immediate goal is to vastly increase federal power, under the control of "progressive" forces, to break the power of corporate tyrannies before the state can be allowed to wither away. I'm pretty sure another "anarchist" named Lenin had the same "vision" and "goals." Engels pretty aptly summed up the difference between anarchists and state socialists over a century ago: "They say abolish the state and capital will go to the devil. We propose the reverse." By this standard, Chomsky sounds a lot closer to Engels than to Bakunin.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/carson1.html

 

[mk12]

Where are the quotes from Chomsky to support this?

I definitely think he's quite liberal on some issues - like the UN, human rights etc.

 

[JoePolitix]

Where are the quotes from Chomsky to support this?

I definitely think he's quite liberal on some issues - like the UN, human rights etc.

I admire Chomsky's principled anti-imperialist stance but his politics beyond that are all over the place.

The fact that he approvingly sites the evil Bukhunin (founder of modern anarchist tyranny thought) just shows how confused he is.

Fck Libertarianism!

 

[In Bloom]

Engels pretty aptly summed up the difference between anarchists and state socialists over a century ago: "They say abolish the state and capital will go to the devil. We propose the reverse."

Interesting stuff, but there appears to be a typo. They've wrote "pretty aptly summped up" where it should have said "willfully misrepresented" and missed out the word "Prick." at the end.

 

[In Bloom]

In any case, I bet I hate anarchists more than JoePolitix. I even hate myself a little bit for listening to Conflict

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I admire Chomsky's principled anti-imperialist stance but his politics beyond that are all over the place.

The fact that he approvingly sites the evil Bukhunin (founder of modern anarchist tyranny thought) just shows how confused he is.

Fck Libertarianism!

But he did sign up to support the presidential campaign of the ever-so Trotskyist Heloisa Helena in Brazil and against the right ward swing of the Lula Government and Workers Party. So he can't be that bad.

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1098

 

[JoePolitix]

Chomsky is a Trot Lover

But he did sign up to support the presidential campaign of the ever-so Trotskyist Heloisa Helena in Brazil and against the right ward swing of the Lula Government and Workers Party. So he can't be that bad.

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1098

Which underlines my point - the guy's a crypto-Leninist .

He's also a supporter of the self declared Trotskyist Hugo Chavez!

What more evidence do you need?

 

[chilango]

This is quoted for sheer shite.

Ditto.

For starters, it's Town Centre Ward. Secondly - there is a blatant lack of campaigning from the Greens. Whatever you might like to think about your Preston position, let me tell you it is nothing. You have no chance of winning the ward. Last year you gained 87 votes to come last, and we lost the ward by 7 votes.

In that case...what are y'all whining about?

Thirdly - there are no bully-boy tactics in Preston, only pussy wanker tactics.

Ooh! do explain...

Respect have attempted to make alliances and pacts with the Greens nationally since day one; Preston is no different.

...and what has been the reponse from the Greens?

Fithly - as stated earlier, the quantifiable and therefore indisputable difference

sounds pretty conclusive if you put it that way...

between Greens standing against Reds and Reds standing against Greens (at least in terms of Respect)

a) y'see they are different...

b) I think a lot of people would take issue with your description of Respect as "reds"...

is that when the Greens stand against us, it does not necessarily have as much to do with wanting to win the seat as wanting to undermine Respect's position

sheesh. you guys are so important...

However, Respect will not stand in wards where we do not think we can win.

progressive leftwing parties,

The reason the Greens don't moan is because if they did, they'd be so obviously full of fucking shite that they'd either die of shame or be ripped to shreds by someone who actually knew what a bunch of lazy, cowardly, snidy and sneaky loser wankers they are.

Funny how they don`t want an alliance innit?

Fourthly - I know a Green, he's a complete knob.

Well, I guess you win the arguement then...

 

[JoePolitix]

Sporn of Bukunin!

In any case, I bet I hate anarchists more than JoePolitix. I even hate myself a little bit for listening to Conflict

You are a wicked, wicked, nasty little man

I'm adding you to my list of enemies.

The List so far:

In Bloom
MK 12

 

[In Bloom]

The List so far:

In Bloom
MK 12

Amatuer

 

[mk12]

You are a wicked, wicked, nasty little man

I'm adding you to my list of enemies.

The List so far:

In Bloom
MK 12

The greens locally are opposing forced expansion of the area (proposing a referendum for residents), opposing the turning of a local school into an academy, opposes privatisation...pretty decent if you ask me.

 

[mutley]

The greens locally are opposing forced expansion of the area (proposing a referendum for residents), opposing the turning of a local school into an academy, opposes privatisation...pretty decent if you ask me.

Ah well as long as they're alright locally.. there are a number of organisations with elected councillors who could make a good pitch for their local campaigning, and obviously noone need look outside of their local patch.. why would you do that eh?

 

[mk12]

If local greens were elected and managed to push through their programme, why should people in my area care if they shared power with Tories in Leeds?

Local elections are supposed to be about local issues, I thought. If I said I wasnt going to vote for a anti-privatisation, pro-local services, anti-expansion, anti-academy Respect candidate because of Galloway's appearance on big brother, or because of some other dodgy members (with their views), then you'd think I was being stupid.

[plus im not voting for them, I just thought it was important to say how the greens here seem to be as leftwing as Respect]

 

[Das Uberdog]

Ditto.



In that case...what are y'all whining about?



Ooh! do explain...



...and what has been the reponse from the Greens?




sounds pretty conclusive if you put it that way...



a) y'see they are different...

b) I think a lot of people would take issue with your description of Respect as "reds"...



sheesh. you guys are so important...












Funny how they don`t want an alliance innit?




Well, I guess you win the arguement then...

You fucking wanker, stop talking about shit you can't even understand. The Greens lost us Town Centre last year by 7 votes, we put hard work, sweat and passion into that campaign and seriously, if you were standing with arms reach of me when you'd just dismissed our efforts just then, I would have severely re-arranged your nose.

The Greens response from our attempts at a pact have been to stab us in the back and/or use the opportunity to try and publically announce us to be Trotskyist loonies - you should know were you at all knowlegeable about anything to do with Green Party politics.

Again - from someone with such a clear lack of analysis I don't think that you claiming that 'some might disagree with me referring to Respect as 'reds' actually means anything. Sure there are, but then again, they're generally as clueless and fucking inane as you are.

And yes I win the argument, because in reality there's no argument to be had. The Greens are fucking wankers. in Preston and nationally. There is no dispute between anyone who's had any experience with them here.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

The greens locally are opposing forced expansion of the area (proposing a referendum for residents), opposing the turning of a local school into an academy, opposes privatisation...pretty decent if you ask me.

If they follow the same campaigning methodology as they do where I live. Then what this means in practice is that they write about these things on their website, occasionally send out a press release to their local rag and that's about it.