Grayson Perry on Late Review BBC2 last night

[madzone]

Well thats charming I must say. Apology please.

Why? I mean it. It's people with opinions like yours that enable crafts people to be sneered at and treated as lesser beings.

 

[miss minnie]

You're either an arrogant snob or thick as pig shit.

End of discussion after the above insult.

 

[madzone]

End of discussion after the above insult.

 

[madzone]

Here's a real tapestry weaver so people can judge if there's a difference or not


http://www.civilisations.ca/cmc/exhibitions/arts/bronfman/br3rd06e.shtml

If Perry wants to start utilising the medium of weaving to convey his designs and messages he should at least have the respect to acknowledge techniques, other artists and the whole tradition.

 

[iROBOT]

There's nothing at the exhibition that states the tapestries have been made somewhere else. When he was asked about the tapestries at the lecture he just looked blank and waffled. He didn't say 'actually I don't know as they weren't actually woven/stitched by me.' There are textiles artists who do make large tapestries themselves so it's not unrealistic to assume he'd done it and not just sent off a drawing.

He makes a big deal of making his stuff himself. So, yes, there could be an element of deception. More likely is (as I've already said) that he's either lazy and can't be bothered explaining or he's arrogant enough to assume we shouldn't ask.

I'll ask again - if you go and see a painting by a particular artist and you find out it wasn't actually painted by them, they just drerw it, would you feel that it was still their own work?

Go to the National and look at a Rembrandt. He had a studio employing dozens of staff. He would come up with the idea and sketch it on canvas and leave the "filling in" and vanishing/lacquering to his assistants and at the final stages would "point"the painting. We still call it a Rembrandt. This way of working is centuries old.

 

[madzone]

Go to the National and look at a Rembrandt. He had a studio employing dozens of staff. He would come up with the idea and sketch it on canvas and leave the "filling in" and vanishing/lacquering to his assistants and at the final stages would "point"the painting. We still call it a Rembrandt. This way of working is centuries old.

So, if you look at a contemporary painting and find out it's been painted by someone else other than the artist you'd think that was ok? You'd feel the same about the painting?

Does this mean Cath Kidston is an artist? How far do you take it?

And again, as I've repeatedly said I don't really have an issue with the practice as long as it's transparent and not being done by someone who slags off others for doing the same thing

 

[iROBOT]

So, if you look at a contemporary painting and find out it's been painted by someone else other than the artist you'd think that was ok? You'd feel the same about the painting?

Does this mean Cath Kidston is an artist? How far do you take it?

And again, as I've repeatedly said I don't really have an issue with the practice as long as it's transparent and not being done by someone who slags off others for doing the same thing

Yes that does seem to be a dichotomy within modern art. With the advent of Pop Art the distinction between the mss produced and the unique in terms of there worth as Art have become blured. In a lot of respects a Cath Kidston says as much about modern life as GP does. Maybe one is self conscience of making art and the other less so (having to take on commercial considerations).

This subjects seems to have been covered (sorry I should have read the news posts fully...), but I do understand your concerns.

If he is slagging off other artists as you say he is, then this is plan hypocrisy and (imo) a despicable trait. However I didnt get that impression from the night at the BL.

 

[madzone]

Yes that does seem to be a dichotomy within modern art. With the advent of Pop Art the distinction between the mss produced and the unique in terms of there worth as Art have become blured. In a lot of respects a Cath Kidston says as much about modern life as GP does. Maybe one is self conscience of making art and the other less so (having to take on commercial considerations).

This subjects seems to have been covered (sorry I should have read the news posts fully...), but I do understand your concerns.

If he is slagging off other artists as you say he is, then this is plan hypocrisy and (imo) a despicable trait. However I didnt get that impression from the night at the BL.

Did you not think he contradicted himself somewhat when questioned about craft?

The comparisons of artists having apprentices etc are all historical. I'd argue that the expectation of contemporary artists is that they make their own work. Anything else makes one a designer. I think his fabrics are much more clearcut. In that instance he's working as a designer.

 

[maldwyn]

I like Damien Hirst's honesty, what's the point of having provenance if you can't exploit it.

Does he do all his own work? "I used to. I do as little as possible now, though, because there's no point. I could say tomorrow, 'I want an office chair carved out of marble'. For me to go and learn how to carve marble would be 30 years' work ... and I'm not going to use it again. So you go and find somebody who can do exactly what you want, and hire them and have it done." Hirst scribbles ideas for his assistants on the back of cigarette packets and beer mats.

Independant

And I'm sure the marble carver would've got a nice bit of CV padding out of it - maybe more commissions.

 

[iROBOT]

Did you not think he contradicted himself somewhat when questioned about craft?

The comparisons of artists having apprentices etc are all historical. I'd argue that the expectation of contemporary artists is that they make their own work. Anything else makes one a designer. I think his fabrics are much more clearcut. In that instance he's working as a designer.

Not really.I think his was less against the mass produced then the lack of personal expression within the population that (in some ways) mass produced objects encourage (a homogenisation). I think him being so flamboyant probably sees the rest of us as deeply repressed, and his way of breaking that monotony is to encourage us all to become our own designers.

Also, I think that today the distinction between and artist and designer is false. We need a new word that combines the two.

 

[madzone]

Not really.I think his was less against the mass produced then the lack of personal expression within the population. I think him being so flamboyant probably sees the rest of us as deeply repressed, and his way of breaking that monotony is to encourage us all to become our own designers.

Also, I think the today the distinction between and artist and designer is false. We need a new word that combines the two.

He was very scathing about native american art though, wasn't he?

I agree with you about the lines between artist and designer being blurred. I don't really have a problem with it tbh.

It's easy not to be repressed when you're married to a psychotherapist

 

[madzone]

I like Damien Hirst's honesty, what's the point of having provenance if you can't exploit it.

Independant

And I'm sure the marble carver would've got a nice bit of CV padding out of it - maybe more commissions.

Yep, no problem with that at all.

 

[iROBOT]

He was very scathing about native american art though, wasn't he?

Must have been distracted and missed that bit. Sorry, but I dont like what native american art has become in terms of popular culture too. So I might have seen his point (if I'd heard it)

It's easy not to be repressed when you're married to a psychotherapist

the conversations round the corn flakes must be surreal !

 

[Diamond]

the conversations round the corn flakes must be surreal !

It must be a bit odd for his daughter, what with having a flamboyantly transvestite Dad.

 

[iROBOT]

It must be a bit odd for his daughter, what with having a flamboyantly transvestite Dad.

Yes! But I'm glad (as I'm sure you are) that we are coming to a stage where we just except people for who they are.

Anyway, lots of men dress up as women in Walthamstow...

 

[Diamond]

Yes! But I'm glad (as I'm sure you are) that we are coming to a stage where we just except people for who they are.

Anyway, lots of men dress up as women in Walthamstow...

I'm guessing you mean accept, rather than except there...

Otherwise in total agreement.

Especially about Walthamstow.

 

[iROBOT]

I'm guessing you mean accept, rather than except there...

Otherwise in total agreement.

Especially about Walthamstow.

Erm...yeah, sorry. Spliff kicking in.

I'm glad we are in agreement...