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Graphics now and then...

If you can't play something because it's too hard, it's not a good game.

I bought it mostly because (a) it was on offer and (b) I'd seen lots of people saying "this game is just so classic, it's like the classic vertical scroller, the graphics are so good" etc. The graphics are nice for a vertical scroller but really, you don't ever see them that often because everything moves so fast. I didn't think that it was _ridiculously_ difficult, just harder than I could be arsed to persist with; VSSes always depend on knowing exactly where to position yourself and move based on the wave you're entering, down to the millisecond and pixel, and... I don't care. It's just not a challenge I find worth persisting with.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
If you can't play something because it's too hard, it's not a good game.
Click to expand...

That's false logic, it's value is equal to 'something sells well it must be high quality'. I might just not be that great a gamer, it may be a gaming style I'm not used to, apparently Japanese games eat that type of thing up...
 
While Elite was great, Frontier was far better than it, both graphically and in terms of the game experience.

If Braben would ever get off his arse and do Elite 4 with modern graphics, no bugs (a la FFE) and with a big a sandbox experience as Frontier was it would probably be groundbreaking, albeit it would probably sell (at best) only 10% as well as some mindless MMORPG or FPS rubbish would.

In fact, as a society we probably get the games we deserve nowadays - by the numbers, lead-me-by-the-hand, cliched shite. Just look at how many people play the Battlefield series or CoD against how many frequented OFP or ArmA, for instance.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
That's false logic, it's value is equal to 'something sells well it must be high quality'. I might just not be that great a gamer, it may be a gaming style I'm not used to, apparently Japanese games eat that type of thing up...
Click to expand...
Actually, I tend to agree with FM. I'm prepared to put in a fair amount of effort, but eventually if I'm still finding a game so impenetrable then I'm afraid it's the game's fault, not mine. Any halfwit can make a stupidly difficult game, it takes real skill to make a game that's both very challenging and captive & engaging. It's like art appreciation, I don't mind being challenged and forced to think deeply about the virtues of a complex painting, but ultimately, if after fair consideration & contemplation, I still think it's a bit shit, then the truth is, it's a bit shit....
 
EastEnder said:
Actually, I tend to agree with FM. I'm prepared to put in a fair amount of effort, but eventually if I'm still finding a game so impenetrable then I'm afraid it's the game's fault, not mine. Any halfwit can make a stupidly difficult game, it takes real skill to make a game that's both very challenging and captive & engaging. It's like art appreciation, I don't mind being challenged and forced to think deeply about the virtues of a complex painting, but ultimately, if after fair consideration & contemplation, I still think it's a bit shit, then the truth is, it's a bit shit....
Click to expand...

That's fine as an opinion for you, in your opinion it's a shit game for that reason but FM was talking objectively. Like I said different people, cultures etc value gameplay in different ways. You cannot simply say that if you don't like a game it's a shit game. If you don't agree check out your average argument about casual gamers and hardcore gamers...;)
 
agricola said:
If Braben would ever get off his arse and do Elite 4 with modern graphics, no bugs (a la FFE) and with a big a sandbox experience as Frontier was it would probably be groundbreaking, albeit it would probably sell (at best) only 10% as well as some mindless MMORPG or FPS rubbish would.
Click to expand...

Have you seen Infinity?

Space trading, combat, exploration whatever MMO, with a full galaxy of stars and planets on one server.

Been in development a long time. The engine is almost entirely a one-man effort, but it's all procedural just like Elite. All the static content is being made by volunteers.

Seamless space to planet flight. Bear in mind this is 3 years old

Space combat, with newtonian physics, in real time.


It looks really impressive. The developer has a blog here: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/mod/journal/journal.asp?jn=263350
 
There was another superb game in this depearment, can't remeber the name though. Also on the Gamecube.

General premise was that a little girl is kidnapped by spectres into a castle, and you (also a girl) have to go and rescue her, find her, and bet the spectres away with a stick before they can grab the little girl and take her back. There's also a load of puzzles you complete whilst in the castle.

Anyone remeber what this was called? I was trying to think of it all last night did a wiki search and everything and still can't find out.
 
Ahh,, scrolling shooters...anyone remember Xenon in the arcade? Can't find any decent grabs of it, bt it looked lovely for the time...
 
Kid_Eternity said:
That's fine as an opinion for you, in your opinion it's a shit game for that reason but FM was talking objectively. Like I said different people, cultures etc value gameplay in different ways. You cannot simply say that if you don't like a game it's a shit game. If you don't agree check out your average argument about casual gamers and hardcore gamers...;)
Click to expand...

See, I guite like that kind of gaming style.

I completed ikaruga relativley quickly on normal mode (a couple of weeks I think), and it took alot of concentration and was pretty much a whole "don't talk to me! I'm concentrating" thing.

Kid Eternity is right when he talks ab out style. It requires alot of concentration but onces you get used to the feel of it, you can complete it fairly quickly.

Kind of similar to Frogger but on a much more difficult level iyswim.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
There was another superb game in this depearment, can't remeber the name though. Also on the Gamecube.

General premise was that a little girl is kidnapped by spectres into a castle, and you (also a girl) have to go and rescue her, find her, and bet the spectres away with a stick before they can grab the little girl and take her back. There's also a load of puzzles you complete whilst in the castle.

Anyone remeber what this was called? I was trying to think of it all last night did a wiki search and everything and still can't find out.
Click to expand...
That sounds very much like Ico on the Playstation 2.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
That's the one! My boyfreind at the time had a gamecube and ps2. Confusion.

Yes Ico had some lovely smooth graphics.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think kyser might have mentioned it in the OP actually. It was made by the team who went on to make Shadow of the Colossus and whose new project has been mentioned just up there ^^^.

A sensational piece of work, but its ghost mechanic ultimately proved a bit too irritating for me.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
I have no idea how good it was because I couldn't get into it as it was so hard. I do love vertical scrolling shooters though. Another game I love the look and design of yet can't for the life of me play well is the F Zero on the Gamecube, fucking mental speeds!
Click to expand...

Only played the original SNES version but that was fucking awesome. :cool:
 
kyser_soze said:
Ahh,, scrolling shooters...anyone remember Xenon in the arcade? Can't find any decent grabs of it, bt it looked lovely for the time...
Click to expand...

Is that different from the Bitmap Brothers game?

My favourite scrolling shooter was SWIV on the Amiga - yet again, immense attention to detail, like one of the bosses which was a huge ship which took off from the ground, leaving crop circles in the corn it had been nestling on. :cool:
 
So that's what happened to those blokes from that Dire Straits video.

kabbes said:
Team Fortress 2
team-fortress-2.jpg
Click to expand...

550px-Nothing2.jpg


:hmm:
 
I remember when I brought my Amiga.

My and my mates crowded round my TV watching the intro to shadow of the beast 2, going 'WOW!!' thinking it was the most realistic thing ever

Now I stoke up GTA IV and it's practically like playing a movie!
 
upsidedownwalrus said:
Is that different from the Bitmap Brothers game?

My favourite scrolling shooter was SWIV on the Amiga - yet again, immense attention to detail, like one of the bosses which was a huge ship which took off from the ground, leaving crop circles in the corn it had been nestling on.
Click to expand...

Yeah I loved SWIV! Great fun. :D
 
I will say this to my death, but I think that computer game designers back then were basically hippies. You couldn't make that much money from it because it was quite niche. Computer games were for 10 year olds with ADD or for spotty adolescents who couldn't get a girlfriend.

Now they're mass market entertainment and completely socially acceptable.

It's big money. It's not surprising that there are fewer of the wacky little quirks that there used to be.
 
internetstalker said:
I remember when I brought my Amiga.

My and my mates crowded round my TV watching the intro to shadow of the beast 2, going 'WOW!!' thinking it was the most realistic thing ever
Click to expand...

How far did you get on that game?

I would love to try it again, I remember me and my mates couldn't get past the first 3 or 4 screens :hmm:
 
Jeff Minter and Llamasoft are still producing games. Space Giraffe was their last. Critically mixed reception, which caused him to throw his toys properly out of the pram.
 
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