Graphics now and then...

[FridgeMagnet]

Actually, I think that there are *more* people consciously exploring the boundaries of interactive art these days. The recent explosion in indie houses has guaranteed that.

That doesn't mean that we haven't lost an entire austere aesthetic genre though.

There are definitely more people in total; I don't know whether the proportion of all designers is greater though. There are plenty of potboilers about still and lots of people involved in making them.

Genres move on, but I don't think we've lost anything. I can't see which qualities of the games of the 80s that people liked can't be found nowadays.

 

[kabbes]

As kyser described initially:

the early stuff was trying to do the same thing as Kraftwerk and modernist architecture - honesty in materials, in the case of architecture, and trying to make electronic music that sounded like electronic music, instead of trying to make it sound like guitars/violins whatever.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I don't think that's any less true now at all.

 

[kabbes]

I don't think that's any less true now at all.

But the way that it was done back then is different to the way it is done now. Not better, but different.

 

[kyser_soze]

TBH I'm just happily gazing at those Mirror's Edge screen shots...such a beautiful palette...might see if there's a 1920x1100 version of those for wallpaper...

Having said all that, there are moments in modern gaming that genuinely make you go 'woah!'...for example, the first time you arrive at Damascus in Assasin's Creed, the camera pulls back and you get that filmic moment...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

But the way that it was done back then is different to the way it is done now. Not better, but different.

Well yeah. (Mostly - some people do deliberately use 8-bit style graphics and sound.) But I would claim that there isn't any less "honesty in materials".

 

[kabbes]

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time also springs to mind for the quality of its set piece moments.

Even The Getaway, actually, as poor a game as it generally was, springs to mind as being impressive for those kind of moments.

 

[EastEnder]

The greatest revolution in home computer graphics was Elite, imho. Prior to that it'd all been 2D platformers or crappy racing games with really awful pretend 3D perspective. Elite shattered the mould, it was a true revolution. After that, all further innovations were merely incremental evolution. Braben & Bell are up there with Crick & Watson, Armstrong & Aldrin, Torvill & Dean...

 

[kabbes]

Elite wasn't the first to do wireframe 3D. Not by a long shot.

 

[kabbes]

For example, Battlezone came out in 1980. I think that was genuinely the first. By contrast, Elite didn't come out for another four years, in 1984.

 

[kyser_soze]

True, but it was done on a widely available platform, and it was attached to a brilliantly written game.

I mean for sure, the original Star Wars arcade machine, Battlezone etc had done vectors before, and there was the Vectrex console but Elite was different...

 

[EastEnder]

Elite wasn't the first to do wireframe 3D. Not by a long shot.

True, but to me it's still the one I regard as revolutionary. It was the first experience I ever had of unlimited degrees of freedom 3D - you could fly around a 3D environment, you weren't constrained to a 2D plane in a pseudo-3D world. It made 3D seem "real" for the first time, at least to me.

 

[kabbes]

I'm not convinced that Elite was the first wireframe on a home computer either. I'm sure that I remember a Spectrum rip-off of Battlezone, for example.

Solid 3D was being done too, as it happens. 3D Monster Maze was Doom on a Spectrum in 1982! Well, almost...

No dispute that Elite showed the potential of 3D in the way that no other game had done though. And no other game would do, either, for at least another 5 years.

 

[elbows]

In my spare time I like to mess around with realtime 3D graphics, and I like the retro look a lot, which is just as well as its all Im capable of. I'll post examples one day if Im ever happy enough with anything Ive made.

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm not convinced that Elite was the first wireframe on a home computer either. I'm sure that I remember a Spectrum rip-off of Battlezone, for example.

Solid 3D was being done too, as it happens. 3D Monster Maze was Doom on a Spectrum in 1982! Well, almost...

No dispute that Elite showed the potential of 3D in the way that no other game had done though. And no other game would do, either, for at least another 5 years.

That's not solid 3D - 3DMM was basically the same effect as games like Space Harrier etc, which don't use real solids, but a single image that expands as it gets closer. Gives the appearence of 3D, but it's not 'proper' 3D, like wot vectors, voxels and polys draw...

 

[kabbes]

No, but it introduced the gameplay style given by 3D corridors. The technical trick used to produce it is less important than the gameplay it produces. Bloody impressive back in 1982 too.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

TBH I'm just happily gazing at those Mirror's Edge screen shots...such a beautiful palette...might see if there's a 1920x1100 version of those for wallpaper...

It's the only game I've been tempted to buy purely because of the way it looks...

 

[kabbes]

When I played the demo, I was actually rather disappointed with Mirrors Edge. A beautiful game to look at and a sublime feel to the free running, but the gameplay seemed iffy.

 

[kyser_soze]

It doesn't 'flow' the way it needs too IMV - altho from what I read about them, the levels Crispy referred to were all pure free running, no combat stuff...

 

[kyser_soze]

No, but it introduced the gameplay style given by 3D corridors. The technical trick used to produce it is less important than the gameplay it produces. Bloody impressive back in 1982 too.

Some geek boy on a mainframe did that before 3DMM tho...

 

[kabbes]

Gosh yes. But we were specifically talking about home computers, remember?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Ikaruga was an amazing game. Had real oldskool style to it, but the graphics in themselves were amazing. It was an awsome game, and insanley difficult.

More games should be like this.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Insanely difficult is some understatement, that was the hardest fucking game I've ever played!

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It doesn't 'flow' the way it needs too IMV - altho from what I read about them, the levels Crispy referred to were all pure free running, no combat stuff...

I'd agree with that. There's a good game in there somewhere when it gets going but there's far too many stopping bits (crawling around in air ducts ffs), rubbish combat and falling off buildings to really get into it IMO. In parts it's like an annoying platformer from years ago - die, repeat until you get it, move onto the next bit, die a few more times...

 

[Pingu]

some of the graphics in guild wars are really nice

 

[yield]

And let us not forget the most beautiful game -- in EVERY sense of the word -- ever written. Most beautiful by a looooong way.

Shadow of the Colossus

I can't wait for Team Ico's The Last Guardian. Hoping for a visual feast.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I didn't like Ikaruga much as an actual game, I have to say.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

One problem is that static screenshots don't do any great graphics justice. Computer games are a moving art. It's the animation that captures you as much as anything else. Nobody is going to tell me that the original Prince of Persia on the Amiga/ST wasn't beautiful.

Turrican 2 on the Amiga as well. It's hard to find a screenshot which really captures the beauty of it, you have to see it in motion. The attention to detail was awesome.

 

[fen_boy]

I completed Ikaruga on normal difficulty setting. It took me fucking ages.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I didn't like Ikaruga much as an actual game, I have to say.

I have no idea how good it was because I couldn't get into it as it was so hard. I do love vertical scrolling shooters though. Another game I love the look and design of yet can't for the life of me play well is the F Zero on the Gamecube, fucking mental speeds!