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Graphics now and then...

kyser_soze

Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The thread about Syntax era, and digging around for loads of old screen shots, got me to thinking about graphics, especially 3D, between then and now.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the 3D available today is outstanding - motion captured characters etc, depth of play areas, realistic texture mapping and all that stuff...

However...

There's a part of me that thinks that videogames had more of an identity as a genuinely separate entertainment medium when they were stripped down to the bare bones. I'm thinking of games like Sentinel, Zarch/Virus, Elite etc. Like the CGi in Tron, it makes me think that the early stuff was trying to do the same thing as Kraftwerk and modernist architecture - honesty in materials, in the case of architecture, and trying to make electronic music that sounded like electronic music, instead of trying to make it sound like guitars/violins whatever.

I think videogame graphics have gone the same way - in trying to make realistic representations of reality, videogames have lost a certain aesthetic, and with it a certain approach to game design (perhaps).

Like I said, I'm not dissing modern graphics - stuff like Crysis, Assasin's Creed etc are actually genuinely beautiful IMO; but when I compare them to something like Ico, they seem to not lack something but seem more separated from a certain aesthetic feel.

It's one of the reasons I love Tron so much - maybe it's my age or something, but it actually created what I imagined computers to look like as it were. A similar, but updated thing happens in the intros to Matric Rev and Reloaded - when they do the whole fractal creation thing.

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll shut up, but what do others thinK? Am I simply being nostaligic, or is there a genuine aesthetic argument to be made here?
 
No, you're absolutely right. There's a very active debate about photorealism vs. hyperrealism vs. surrealism in games today. The best graphical examples, IMO, avoid photorealism like the plague.

Look at something like Darwinia, incidentally, for how the Zarch/Virus aesthetic lives on.
 
I completely agree. I think the aesthetics have changed for the worse- there's nothing quite so exciting about realistic depictions of the world(s). The tendency to try to be more and more realistic graphically doesn't do anything for me, yeah I can marvel at the rendering for a bit, but I also kind of want to feel like I'm playing a game and not controlling a film. Maybe it's an age thing, ask any 10 year old now what they think of Elite and I suspect you'd get some pretty unimpressed responses.
 
Nintendo are good at this, as are Squaresoft. they still use the graphics power available but have a very computer gamey look

must admit i'm a big fan of the 1990s anime style graphics more than photorealism
 
I'd be more depressed if i got the same replies out of 18 yr olds TBH, and depressingly I suspect I would!

I think Mirror's Edge is a good example of a game that has a good aesthetic that straddles the two extremes...
 
but then games like unreal tournament or fallout are photorealistic depictions of fantasy worlds, which is also awesome
 
The thread about Syntax era, and digging around for loads of old screen shots, got me to thinking about graphics, especially 3D, between then and now.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the 3D available today is outstanding - motion captured characters etc, depth of play areas, realistic texture mapping and all that stuff...

However...

There's a part of me that thinks that videogames had more of an identity as a genuinely separate entertainment medium when they were stripped down to the bare bones. I'm thinking of games like Sentinel, Zarch/Virus, Elite etc. Like the CGi in Tron, it makes me think that the early stuff was trying to do the same thing as Kraftwerk and modernist architecture - honesty in materials, in the case of architecture, and trying to make electronic music that sounded like electronic music, instead of trying to make it sound like guitars/violins whatever.

I think videogame graphics have gone the same way - in trying to make realistic representations of reality, videogames have lost a certain aesthetic, and with it a certain approach to game design (perhaps).

Like I said, I'm not dissing modern graphics - stuff like Crysis, Assasin's Creed etc are actually genuinely beautiful IMO; but when I compare them to something like Ico, they seem to not lack something but seem more separated from a certain aesthetic feel.

It's one of the reasons I love Tron so much - maybe it's my age or something, but it actually created what I imagined computers to look like as it were. A similar, but updated thing happens in the intros to Matric Rev and Reloaded - when they do the whole fractal creation thing.

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll shut up, but what do others thinK? Am I simply being nostaligic, or is there a genuine aesthetic argument to be made here?

Thread needs pics
 
The problem with photorealism is that it is still in shit, uncanny valley territory. It looks good today only because we are looking at something new. In five years we'll realise how bad it is. Remember how amazingly realistic Virtua Fighter was when it came out? Those not used to computer games already realise how shit the photorealism is, incidentally. They look at the supposedly realistic GTAIV figures and think, "cartoons".

But a beautiful piece of art (Okami, Super Mario Galaxy, Team Fortress II) stays a beautiful piece of art, no matter how old it gets.
 
I'd be more depressed if i got the same replies out of 18 yr olds TBH, and depressingly I suspect I would!

I think Mirror's Edge is a good example of a game that has a good aesthetic that straddles the two extremes...

Have you seen the timetrial downloadable levels?

miredmultscrnwwrazzmatazz.jpg


miredmultscrnwwvelocity.jpg


miredmultscrnwwkinetic.jpg
 
i th9ink theres a place for both.

i loved the sprite based awesomeness of duke nukem 3d and a few of the shooters of that ilk but playing quake 3(i think) was an amazing expereince as you could immerse yourself in the game even more so with the recent crysis games.

The photo realism is need to make things seem real and therefore moe emersive to the user.

Simple/addictive games benfit hugekly from cartoony garphics as do games that are a bit more wacky or zany or whatever. Monkey ball with realitic graphics for example would be shite, same with the likes of rayman or whatever.

Realitsic graphics should only be used in games that try to scare you, or shooters/stealth games. Everything else i'm more then happy to have looking starnge and wonderfully coloured or whatever. Oh command and conquer type games benefit from ralisticish graphics as well, makes me care more about losing soliders and things.


dave
 
elite1.gif

Elite
tron.jpeg

Tron
Mercenary_pic_2.gif

Mercenary
starglider1-a.png

starglider_2_04.png

Starglider 1&2

BTW, I'm not deliberately ignoring 2D stuff...

Crispy - those levels look awesome...really lovely abstract art...for me there's a hint of the kind of 'floating landscape' style that Roger Dean used to produce for his Yes album covers...
 
Good artwork in games of the last five years or so:

Darwinia
darwinia-1.JPG


Rez
Rez.jpg


Team Fortress 2
team-fortress-2.jpg


Audiosurf
audiosurf.jpg


fl0w
untitled-1flowpspsoon-copy.jpg
 
Psst -- Rez was in the above list too. Still, it's so good, it deserves to be shown twice.
 
And let us not forget the most beautiful game -- in EVERY sense of the word -- ever written. Most beautiful by a looooong way.

Shadow of the Colossus
33dgtw9.jpg
 
There's a part of me that thinks that videogames had more of an identity as a genuinely separate entertainment medium when they were stripped down to the bare bones. I'm thinking of games like Sentinel, Zarch/Virus, Elite etc. Like the CGi in Tron, it makes me think that the early stuff was trying to do the same thing as Kraftwerk and modernist architecture - honesty in materials, in the case of architecture, and trying to make electronic music that sounded like electronic music, instead of trying to make it sound like guitars/violins whatever.

I think videogame graphics have gone the same way - in trying to make realistic representations of reality, videogames have lost a certain aesthetic, and with it a certain approach to game design (perhaps).

nah, you're being nostalgic

There have always been some games which made attempts to look realistic and some which were abstract. In the main, these early games that you say were "stripped down" had to be stripped down because of the technology. You think Elite was deliberately wireframe and wouldn't have looked like Eve if it had been possible?

The proportion of games using stylised graphics for the sake of it - not just for performance reasons - is I'm sure pretty much the same. Remember that most of the games out there weren't stylised minimalist masterpieces either, they just looked shit.
 
All the same, fridgey, it's true that there was a very deliberate and much discussed aesthetic in art and music that was gradually being developed as a consequence of being forced to strip down the images and sound. An entire artistic shorthand had been developed, understood by gamer and developer alike. An entire iconography, even.

There was a lot of mass-produced dross too, of course, no argument there.
 
I think I'm somewhere near FM's pov on this but can't help feel we're fucking lucky Tetris was made when it was made. Can you imagine how stupid it'd be if created now?
 
One problem is that static screenshots don't do any great graphics justice. Computer games are a moving art. It's the animation that captures you as much as anything else. Nobody is going to tell me that the original Prince of Persia on the Amiga/ST wasn't beautiful.

Also:

Head_Over_Heels_48.png
 
All the same, fridgey, it's true that there was a very deliberate and much discussed aesthetic in art and music that was gradually being developed as a consequence of being forced to strip down the images and sound. An entire artistic shorthand had been developed, understood by gamer and developer alike. An entire iconography, even.

There was a lot of mass-produced dross too, of course, no argument there.

Yuh, but I dispute that there's any overall difference in the proportion of people fully exploring and using the medium artistically, and that there's any real difference in the games either. The genre of gorgeous photorealistic games didn't exist much in the early days - you could say Myst was one I suppose - but apart from that there are still plenty of games which know they're games, with "honesty" and all that. They just have a lot more options these days, including the photoreal (or attempted photoreal; the characters always spoil it, yes).
 
Yuh, but I dispute that there's any overall difference in the proportion of people fully exploring and using the medium artistically, and that there's any real difference in the games either. The genre of gorgeous photorealistic games didn't exist much in the early days - you could say Myst was one I suppose - but apart from that there are still plenty of games which know they're games, with "honesty" and all that. They just have a lot more options these days, including the photoreal (or attempted photoreal; the characters always spoil it, yes).
Actually, I think that there are *more* people consciously exploring the boundaries of interactive art these days. The recent explosion in indie houses has guaranteed that.

That doesn't mean that we haven't lost an entire austere aesthetic genre though.
 
I think I'm somewhere near FM's pov on this but can't help feel we're fucking lucky Tetris was made when it was made. Can you imagine how stupid it'd be if created now?

Actually I think we value abstract puzzle type games a lot more nowadays, because of mobile devices. People are still making abstract games with simple but cunning principles.
 
Apropos of nothing: when you start to look for images of stuff, you realise just how bad most screenshot captures are. I mean, look at this attempt to sell the merits of a game:

110748_medium.jpeg


Why would you even bother?
 
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