Govt propose extending uncharged detention limit to 42 Days

[agricola]

I would not go so far as to say that I actually "despise" any of them.

Perhaps you should watch BBC Parliament more.

 

[goldenecitrone]

What do you mean? I have pointed out that the US treats non US citizens (with whom it does not have a "social contract") differently. But a US citizen (even one suspected of terrorist offences) has to be charged after 48 hours.

I meant, you'd be better off comparing us with a civilized country.

 

[weltweit]

Well it seems Gordon Brown may get his way.

No doubt this will be trumpeted as evidence that he is not in as much trouble as people think.

Still amazing that not so long ago someone was asking for 90 days!

 

[agricola]

Well it seems Gordon Brown may get his way.

No doubt this will be trumpeted as evidence that he is not in as much trouble as people think.

Still amazing that not so long ago someone was asking for 90 days!

Indeed - that point was made that no doubt in a couple of years we will see 60 days being demanded.

It is also worth noting that, if they do win, the only way this will have happened is because they have bribed / threatened the rebel MPs, since they have comprehensively lost the debate in the chamber.

 

[agricola]

Good to see Dianne Abbott giving them the what-for, as well.

 

[danny la rouge]

I meant, you'd be better off comparing us with a civilized country.

Sadly, I don't think we really qualify as of now.

 

[agricola]

They won, by 9 votes, after the DUP (9 MPs) backed them. The Governments "independent reviewer" is defending the Government position on BBC News 24. Quelle surprise.

Ah well, democracy is screwed, lets hope our undemocratic Lords throw it out.

 

[treelover]

Govt wins,

I wonder how long it will be before this power is used in an entirely different context, like the terrorism act has been

 

[danny la rouge]

Govt wins,

I wonder how long it will be before this power is used in an entirely different context, like the terrorism act has been

Oh, but you have to trust the nice government; they aren't baddies, they'll only do good things.

Oh, and DUP scum act according to type.

 

[agricola]

Oh, but you have to trust the nice government; they aren't baddies, they'll only do good things.

Oh, and DUP scum act according to type.

Indeed, though had it been a tie we would all have been blaming Anne Widdecombe.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

BLOODY ARSEHOLE BASTARDS

Fuckers.

 

[magneze]

... and the reason this was passed? Not because it was the right thing to do, but because it was made into a confidence vote on Gordon Brown by the whips and media it seems. Fucking idiots.

 

[SpookyFrank]

BLOODY ARSEHOLE BASTARDS

Fuckers.

This is the correct answer. It's only the high price of petrol that's stopping me from stocking up on molotov cocktails and making what I think of the cunts who run this country abundantly fucking clear

 

[shagnasty]

Brown may have won the day but the damage done is enormous just like the ten pence tax it will linger.it is also a sad day for princpled demorcracy

 

[grogwilton]

Fuck Brown the pathetic, idiotic, bumbling, has been, incompetent, idiotic prick. Man of principle my fucking arse, im glad he's going to go down in history as an absolute nonentity, a fucking footnote.

A fuck the careerist scum of the Labour benches, fucking sheep, morons dont realise half of them are gonna lose their seats anyway might as well have some fucking backbone and principle. What the hell did Brown have to twist their arms with? 'This will be the end of your political career' its already the end of their careers.

The only thing, really the only difference I can see between the parties at the moment was this, and the fucking tores were on the good side.

What the fuck is going on.

 

[agricola]

... and the reason this was passed? Not because it was the right thing to do, but because it was made into a confidence vote on Gordon Brown by the whips and media it seems. Fucking idiots.

... that and they bribed / threatened MPs. I hope anyone who was thinking of voting Labour at the next election notes that - the 37 rebels aside - any Labour MP or PPC is not worth voting for. I dont know if anyone watched the whole debate but I cannot recall an occasion in which one side was so overwhelmingly destroyed as they (the Government) were on this.

Still, as Tony Benn is saying on News 24 if the Lords kick it out it will be back in the Commons, Brown will (hopefully) be in even worse trouble next time and the lies that passed for concessions / protections this time around may have been exposed (though they were utterly exploded in the debate, its difficult to imagine how they could have been more disproved).

 

[agricola]

... and the reason this was passed? Not because it was the right thing to do, but because it was made into a confidence vote on Gordon Brown by the whips and media it seems. Fucking idiots.

True, but this is not a vote of confidence in him - he had to use one or two Tory rebels and the DUP to win the vote.

 

[MikeMcc]

For what it's worth, the vote on this is today.

If it is passed, the Government will have crossed a Rubicon, and I for one will not be allowing it to lie.

The UK already has the longest period of pre-charge detention in the western world. The next longest is Australia at 12 days.

In the US, under the 2001 Patriot Act the attorney general can detain foreign suspects (for periods renewed 6 monthly) but must start deportation proceedings within 7 days. But under U.S. Federal law the maximum period of pre-charge detention for criminal suspects who are US citizens, including those suspected of committing terrorist offences is 48 hours. Anyone held longer can issue a writ of habeas corpus.

Anyone live near Runnymede? Perhaps that'd be a good locus for a protest if this is passed.

According to the Beeb this morning Greece allows 12 months, but it's an exception.

 

[Lot 49]

This is why the DUP should be banned from politics.

 

[liampreston]

I am angered and disappointed by this vote. Congratulations Gordon Brown - you have just given the police and security forces of the United Kingdom the right to detain members of the public without charge for upto 42 days.

An assault on democracy, an affront to liberty.

 

[magneze]

True, but this is not a vote of confidence in him - he had to use one or two Tory rebels and the DUP to win the vote.

Fair point ... but if he'd have lost it would have been seen as a vote of no confidence ...

 

[stowpirate]

Who is going to be the first innocent victim of this? A tourist from the Middle East who unknowingly takes photos of government buildings who also has friends and relatives in Iraq who openly send emails about how they hate the occupying forces?

 

[grogwilton]

Even though I completely hated brown and new labour, there was always some part of me that felt sorry for him because he's been unlucky with the economy and he's basically a bit of a moron, and isnt doing well because he's not photogenic.

Any tiny shred of sympathy I had for him has dissapeared. I hate the tories but just bring them on to see him fucked.

 

[TAE]

We are told national security is at stake

I'm not even sure what that means when applied to terror plots. How does an airplane or a train being blown up risk national security?

 

[Nemo]

<Speechless>. In the week of the anniversary of the issuing of Magna Carta, the government takes another step at chiseling away at our hard-won rights. Why do I get the impression that when this infamous proposal comes back next year so that the government can use the Parliament Act to ram it through, it will be even more pernicious than it is now? I await the list of how MPs voted, and if mine capitulated and went through the 'aye' lobby, he'll be getting it with both barrels from me.

 

[Brainaddict]

BLOODY ARSEHOLE BASTARDS

Fuckers.

Fuck Brown the pathetic, idiotic, bumbling, has been, incompetent, idiotic prick. Man of principle my fucking arse, im glad he's going to go down in history as an absolute nonentity, a fucking footnote.

A fuck the careerist scum of the Labour benches, fucking sheep, morons dont realise half of them are gonna lose their seats anyway might as well have some fucking backbone and principle. What the hell did Brown have to twist their arms with? 'This will be the end of your political career' its already the end of their careers.

The only thing, really the only difference I can see between the parties at the moment was this, and the fucking tores were on the good side.

What the fuck is going on.

I am angered and disappointed by this vote. Congratulations Gordon Brown - you have just given the police and security forces of the United Kingdom the right to detain members of the public without charge for upto 42 days.

An assault on democracy, an affront to liberty.

It's all been said already. But can I just add: you worthless cuntsocks. And you wonder why politicians get no respect. May your children and their children learn to despise you so thoroughly that they wouldn't piss on your burning lynched corpses.

 

[treelover]

Apparently one LP rebel was bought off by the Govt agreeing to support the lifting of the embargo on Cuba, WTF!

anyway, the whole thing is one big dogs breakfast, a farce...

 

[Dask]

This is fucking disgusting.

A dark day.

 

[elbows]

So apart from the war on terror reasons for this legislation, whivh never seem to stand up to much scrutiny, why else does this sort of thing get put onto the books?

Is it because there is actually quite a lot of public support for this if the question is phrased right, because people think it will always be used on actual terrorists?

Is it because the government anticipate greater civil unrest in future and want to have the right laws available to control the masses?

Or is it used as a crude policing tool, eg to intimidate people into ceasing disruptive protests, by telling them how long they could be detained for if they dont cooperate?

 

[Brainaddict]

Another pointless letter to an MP for you:

This is to register my anger that you have voted in favour of 42 days detention without charge. I know your party's arguments for it so please don't repeat them when you reply to me. The arguments are not good enough. Anyone with guts and principles would be prepared to live with an infinitesimally increased risk for the sake of preserving our freedoms. Not you apparently.

But I do have a question for you. Is there any civil liberty you would not destroy if your party leaders demanded it? Is there any civil liberty you would risk your career for?

Thanks in advance for your reply.