Govt bans 'short selling'

[butchersapron]

Great sentiments there butchers. The city being a core part of the UK economy, and you "couldn't give a fuck" that it's failure could force us into penury?

Us?

I love it.

Get over yourself.

Our economy is hopelessly dependent on preventing such capital flight. It's a desperate thing for you to do to link my highlighting this problem to any particular political position. If Tony Benn pointed this exact same thing out would that immediately exclude him from the socialist club? No.

'Our'? Seriously, as a starting point. OK, argue that, argue and establish your 'our' please.

 

[danny la rouge]

The city being a core part of the UK economy

It is, but why?

These people are parasites and spivs. They need to be neck-shot.

 

[butchersapron]

It is, but why?

These people are parasites and spivs. They need to be neck-shot.

I'm not a violent man, and i don't oftern agree with violent men, but this post is true.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is, but why?

These people are parasites and spivs. They need to be neck-shot.

But how would the poor cope without the millionaires?

 

[Dan U]

I don't think you realise the serious implications this has for the City. (And by extension the UK economy).

The ability to sell short is a key tool for the trader - apart from anything else it is necessary for effective hedging. So without this ability do you think capital is more likely to continue trading in the city, or go to a more friendly environment?

the whole idea of trading in this manner is completely discredited now.

it's main proponents are nationalised or being bailed out by retail banks. the US and UK regulators will be foolish to allow this kind of trading to continue.

the world survived without hedge funds before, it will do so again.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not a violent man, and i don't oftern agree with violent men, but this post is true.

I'm not heartless. I'd give them the option to stop and desist first.

 

[mysterygirl]

So far I've got this :

A trader thinks that a particular stock is over-priced so he buys some stock, then sells it on at the same sort of price and waits for the price to drop. When it does, he buys it back at the lower price so now he has the shares and the profit.

?

 

[Dan U]

It is, but why?

These people are parasites and spivs. They need to be neck-shot.

a few of us decided in the pub last night those responsible should be set amongst a good old fashioned London mob.

be better than Big Brother (while it lasted)

 

[8ball]

I'd settle for dragging them out of their offices one random Tuesday morning and drowning them in the Thames.

Different strokes and that . . .

 

[danny la rouge]

a few of us decided in the pub last night those responsible should be set amongst a good old fashioned London mob.

No, not a mob. The "up to" 40, 000 who will lose their jobs.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thing is, in my job, I help to make stuff. You can go to a shop and buy things that I worked on.

But what do the spivs actually make to justify their vast earnings? I still don't understand.

Let them fuck off to Kuala Lumpur. They work long hours then piss off home to the vastly overpriced suburbs (overpriced because of them largely) to play golf. They contribute fuck all that I want.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's disgusting to see our governments buying the bad debt back with the our tax money imo. Fuck, em put a short term freeze on repossession and leave the traders to rot. Sodding neoliberalism ' whats mine is mine, but if I lose mine the debt is yours.

 

[Blagsta]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_selling

I'm a little wiser, but not much. What goes on in high finance is so abstracted from real life (selling things you don't own? Trading in promises? I mean, wtf?! wtff? ) as to be absurd. These people don't actually do anything as far as I can tell. They just bet on stuff that appears completely abstract but then has real consequences on people's lives when it all goes tits up.

 

[8ball]

I'm a little wiser, but not much. What goes on in high finance is so abstracted from real life . . .These people don't actually do anything as far as I can tell. They just bet on stuff that appears completely abstract but then has real consequences on people's lives when it all goes tits up.

Actually you seem to have nailed it.

 

[Dan U]

No, not a mob. The "up to" 40, 000 who will lose their jobs.

that'll work.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So far I've got this :

A trader thinks that a particular stock is over-priced so he buys some stock, then sells it on at the same sort of price and waits for the price to drop. When it does, he buys it back at the lower price so now he has the shares and the profit.

?

No, presumably he already owns the stock. In your scenario, the buyer buying and then selling at the same sort of price is a pointless exercise. He might as well just wait and buy once at the lower price.

 

[danny la rouge]

But what do the spivs actually make to justify their vast earnings? I still don't understand.

Exactly; they gamble on the outcome of their own economic vandalism. (To borrow a phrase from Alex Salmond, not my normal source but good for a soundbite).

 

[Blagsta]

It is, but why?

These people are parasites and spivs. They need to be neck-shot.

I'm rapidly coming to that conclusion myself.

 

[danny la rouge]

These people don't actually do anything as far as I can tell. They just bet on stuff that appears completely abstract but then has real consequences on people's lives when it all goes tits up.

That's it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bugger, we seem to have scared off the one person who believes in this shit.

kabbes, what's your take?

 

[Blagsta]

So far I've got this :

A trader thinks that a particular stock is over-priced so he buys some stock, then sells it on at the same sort of price and waits for the price to drop. When it does, he buys it back at the lower price so now he has the shares and the profit.

?

He doesn't actually buy it though. Apparently someone "lends" it to him.

No, me neither.

 

[david dissadent]

Short-selling is selling something you don't have. Why is that OK for shares but not houses?

So, short selling is like getting a mortgage?

No, it's really not.

Selling something you do not yet have is wrong. Buying something with money you have not earnt is right?

People have traded for tens of millenia and a part of that trade will have included selling things they have not yet bought. Whatever the rights and wrongs of short selling your original point strikes me as very naive.

 

[butchersapron]

Selling something you do not yet have is wrong. Buying something with money you have not earnt is right?

People have traded for tens of millenia and a part of that trade will have included selling things they have not yet bought. Whatever the rights and wrongs of short selling your original point strikes me as very naive.

When it has ramifications beyond yourself then sorry, you can fuck off with your naturalistic bullshit.

How is denying the harm done right now, today by it, a denial of that, in the past (how?) or future. As ever you miss the point. With fucking waflle.

 

[mysterygirl]

He doesn't actually buy it though. Apparently someone "lends" it to him.

No, me neither.

I get the selling & buying back bit, that's fairly obvious.

It's the where the trader gets the stock from in the first place bit that confuses me - he's a trader, not the bank or whatever so he must've bought them in the first place surely?

 

[Darios]

Bugger, we seem to have scared off the one person who believes in this shit.

Are you referring to me?

 

[Blagsta]

I get the selling & buying back bit, that's fairly obvious.

It's the where the trader gets the stock from in the first place bit that confuses me - he's a trader, not the bank or whatever so he must've bought them in the first place surely?

As far as I can tell, he doesn't buy it, he just pretends to buy it.

No, me neither.

 

[danny la rouge]

Selling something you do not yet have is wrong. Buying something with money you have not earnt is right?

The former is abstract spivery. The latter is "rent to buy". Hire purchase. And the corner shop tick book.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of short selling your original point strikes me as very naive.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see it as naive, Mr Man Of The World City Gent.

As, no doubt, does this: I despise every inch of the skin and red braces of those fuckers. Yes, with all my being.

 

[elbows]

Well quite apart from all the other ways that the current economic situation will affect most peoples lives, there is also the issue of just how much 'financial services' are part of the current and future plans for how Britain makes money. I get the idea that glorified money-laundering, creative writing of accounts, and a vast array of financial products and services, and skimming off profits from 'real hard manual work done by others' were supposed to be one of the main things we did to make money in a post-industrial era. If most of that evaporates at the same time as house bubble burst, inflation, and decline in our own oil & gas production, Im not exactly sure what Plan B is going to be, this nation is going to become noticably poorer, perhaps to a degree that most havent considered possible.

 

[butchersapron]

Selling something you do not yet have is wrong. Buying something with money you have not earnt is right?

People have traded for tens of millenia and a part of that trade will have included selling things they have not yet bought. Whatever the rights and wrongs of short selling your original point strikes me as very naive.

People have traded on future prices in the past therefore we must forever!!!!

Except for things like agency and out ability to change ourselves and our condtions.

Got any slaves going cheap dave? No? Why not?

 

[8ball]

Got any slaves going cheap dave? No? Why not?

Actually the capital value of my slave futures is pretty fucked at the mo but I'll get back to you in a couple if years.