Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Good Trot / Bad Trot

Good trot / bad trot

  • Total voters
    56
Yeah, I agree. I apologise for the over-simplistic post. But you have accepted my main point - that the SWP has been critical of him, and hasn't tried claim he was right all the time.
Click to expand...

Which left group is totally uncritical of Lenin or Trotsky?! The Sparts maybe, but none other that I can think of.

Although funnily enough the SWP do remain strangely silent on criticising the Bolsheviks for banning internal factions. Possibly because they wouldn't have a leg to stand on?
 
mattkidd12 said:
Yeah, I agree. I apologise for the over-simplistic post. But you have accepted my main point - that the SWP has been critical of him, and hasn't tried claim he was right all the time.
Click to expand...

matt it goes without saying that the swp have been critical of trotsky. No member of the swp will disagree with you. One result of disagrement is State capitalism etc.
 
butchersapron said:
Really, RW, you simply have't got the weight to try and patronise people.
Click to expand...

That is why I don't (or never mean to). You on the other hand know you have got the weight to patronise people - and boy do you use it!

You seriously want me to tick one of the following boxes and be happy? Why haven't you voted yet in that case? Is it 'intellectually beneath you' or something?

'Good trots do exist.', 'All trots are bad', 'Shit is still shit no matter which brand they present as', 'hot to trot', 'All trots want a workers state and must be executed' or 'Im in trot rehab'.
Click to expand...
 
flypanam said:
matt it goes without saying that the swp have been critical of trotsky. No member of the swp will disagree with you. One result of disagrement is State capitalism etc.
Click to expand...

cockneyrebel said that he didn't think i'd be in the party for much longer, due to my original post which was critical of Trotsky. I tried to prove that i wasn't alone in the SWP in being critical of Trotsky.

Rebel and Cockney: vote for god's sake! we're nearly winning!
 
mattkidd12 said:
cockneyrebel said that he didn't think i'd be in the party for much longer, due to my original post which was critical of Trotsky. I tried to prove that i wasn't alone in the SWP in being critical of Trotsky.
Click to expand...

You'd be alone in the SWP if you were uncritical of Trotsky... :p
 
mattkidd as with RW taking this thread seriously, how can you take my posts on this thread seriously?

Having said that, you're a gonner.....

And why do you think the SWP stay quiet on the old banning of factions?
 
rebel warrior said:
That is why I don't (or never mean to). You on the other hand know you have got the weight to patronise people - and boy do you use it!

You seriously want me to tick one of the following boxes and be happy? Why haven't you voted yet in that case? Is it 'intellectually beneath you' or something?
Click to expand...
What on earth is your almost child like obssesion with trying to force me to vote on polls? You're claiming that i a) think this is the most serious thread ever and b) i'm also not taking it seriously. More lessons.
 
rebel warrior said:
Well...

I think the SWP literature avoids carving up his life into 'good' and 'bad' bits, but seeks to look at his life in context throughout.

So 1918-23, we salute his courage, and brilliant military skill in leading the Red Army to victory, etc. etc.

I also think that we are more critical of his last few years (1938-40) than you make out - read Hallas on Trotsky here, where he criticises the Transitional Programme and the overheavy bureaucratic centralism of the Fourth International. However, we would not say that in 1938-40, Trotsky went 'bad' - he was still a fucking inspiration.
Click to expand...
lev davidovich bronstein said:
none of us desires or is able to dispute the will of the party. clearly, the party is always right ... we can only be right with and by the party, for history has provided no other way of being right. the english have a saying, "my country, right or wrong", whether it is in the right or in the wrong, it is my country. we have a much better historical justification in saying, whether it is right or wrong in certain individual cases, it is my party ... and if the party adopts a decision which one or other of us thinks unjust, he will say, just or unjust, it is my party, and i shall support the consequences of the decision to the end.
Click to expand...
a fucking inspiration? :D
 
mattkidd12 said:
Yeah, I agree. I apologise for the over-simplistic post. But you have accepted my main point - that the SWP has been critical of him, and hasn't tried claim he was right all the time.
Click to expand...
what, has been critical of him but isn't any more?
 
mattkidd12 said:
cockneyrebel said that he didn't think i'd be in the party for much longer, due to my original post which was critical of Trotsky. I tried to prove that i wasn't alone in the SWP in being critical of Trotsky.

Rebel and Cockney: vote for god's sake! we're nearly winning!
Click to expand...

Thats because his view of a parties membership is clouded by the candidate period that wp members have to go through. officially the line is to see if the new member is comfortable with the routine and organisation. Unofficially its a period for the organisation to judge the new member and judge whether they will cause some trouble by been a little critical.

cockers if we stay quite on factions its because it allows you to post ur terminal question about it and therefore boost ur post count champ ;)
 
butchersapron said:
Rw- i just voted esp for you. Trotskyism is generally shit. Lot of trots are also, but lots aren't as well.
Click to expand...

Well now I have had to vote too on this ridiculous poll - just to negate you... :(
 
But I wanna know why [in Verucca Salt voice]
Click to expand...

A wink and a nudge is all you're getting.....

Thats because his view of a parties membership is clouded by the candidate period that wp members have to go through. officially the line is to see if the new member is comfortable with the routine and organisation. Unofficially its a period for the organisation to judge the new member and judge whether they will cause some trouble by been a little critical.
Click to expand...

No candidate membership is for both the person joining to see what they think of WP and for the organisation to decide whether they should be a member of the organisation. There is no secret in that, it's not "unofficial".

But it has nothing to do with someone causing trouble or being critical. Indeed as WP has provisions for tendencies and factions I think it's a bit much for you to comment considering the SWP bans factions/tendencies for 9 months of the year and has a whole history of expelling people for disagreeing with the leadership.

It also means that the SWP can't have a proper analysis of where the Bolsheviks went wrong because they brush the stuff about banning internal factions under the carpet.
 
rebel warrior said:
Your powers are weak old man...
Click to expand...
Trotsky%20dead.jpg
 
Does anyone know of what people said Lenin, Trotsky and Marx were like on a personal level? Any accounts of whether people thought they were a good laugh, boring bastards, players, down to earth, up their arses etc etc?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cloo
A thread of people still desperately trying to act like Brexit was a good thing
11 12 13 14 15
Replies
448
Views
14K
Saul Goodman
Saul Goodman
U
In the event of war, is there anybody in the UK who would make a good 'national leader'?
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
268
Views
6K
Jennaonthebeach
Jennaonthebeach
HeAthen
Bob Vylan gigs cancelled due to political interference
2
Replies
47
Views
1K
Jennaonthebeach
Jennaonthebeach
Larry O'Hara
MI5: Threat Assessment 8/10/24 given a good kicking
Replies
0
Views
272
Larry O'Hara
Larry O'Hara
L
Oops - How did the Government not see that this was going to happen? (ID cards)
Replies
4
Views
262
Buddy Bradley
Buddy Bradley
Back
Top Bottom