Good news for Labour from Glenrothes by-election

[glenquagmire]

I just finished reading Jennie Lee's autobiography 'My Life With Nye' which discussed her upbringing in the mining areas in Fife.

What is really strikingly familiar is her description of the fights there after WW1 between the ILP, the CP and the rightwing union bureaucracy. The idea of nationalists taking hold there would have been unthinkable at the time but the internecine warfare of the left is apparently still going on.

 

[lewislewis]

Portillo on this Week said it would be bad news for the Tories, as their strategy was for SNP to take most of Scotland to deprive Labour of some seats in parliament. Plus it also means Brown might be doing a bit better as a result of the economic crisis. And Scotland might have become another Iceland if it werent connected with the rest of the UK economically.

Considering there are reports this week from the likes of the IMF that the UK is going to have the worst downturn of all the developed nations in this recession, politics here may remain as volatile as the markets.

Iceland to Scotland is the most idiotic comparison ever (even when the nationalists made it in a positive way before the crash). Iceland has a population of 300,000 AFAIK. Scotland should be compared to Norway, also an oil-producing nation. Which is going to be one of the least affected economies in Europe by the downturn.

 

[poului]

erfx54uetjhg

"Stick with nurse for fear of something worse."

 

[Fullyplumped]

I hate that man. He has an unfortunate personality. I know it's a prejudice on my part, but whenever he speaks I want to do him untold violence.

But he isn't going to go away. Labour seems to have finally found someone who has the measure of Alex Salmond. Judging by the email to Labour party members from Gordon Brown today, in which he gets special thanks, Jim Murphy's star is only going to rise.

He's actually very nice when you meet him in person. And much bigger than you'd think. I doubt if you'd get a chance to lay a hand on him.

Also, from a purely selfish point of view, he deserves the respect of all gastronomes for the way in which - even as a vegetarian - he has promoted the case of Black Pudding from Stornoway to get special protection from the EU.

 

[homooxoniensis]

People are coming back because Labour has started concentrating on economics rather than on populist attacks on single mothers, young people, foreigners and the unemployed, ID cards, and stupid wars, which only play with people who are not going to vote Labour next time anyway. Also because it seems to have got the message that choosing PPE wallys, lawyers and managers as candidates will make it unelectable. As we saw in Crewe & Nantwich, when it follows the middle class Labour right's anti-immigrant arbitrary law & order tough on the unemployed agenda it gets massacred at the ballot box. If it dispenses with the macho posturing of Jacqui Smith and James Purnell and spreads the wealth around there's still a very good chance that Labour can win the next election.

 

[david dissadent]

Iceland to Scotland is the most idiotic comparison ever (even when the nationalists made it in a positive way before the crash). Iceland has a population of 300,000 AFAIK. Scotland should be compared to Norway, also an oil-producing nation. Which is going to be one of the least affected economies in Europe by the downturn.

And Scotland would be in the EU and Euro. They would in effect have the worlds largest economy backing there financial system.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

I would say the nub of the matter lies here: Brown is depicted by the media as being the master of the economic crisis (as the recession deepens it is unlikely that he will get so easy ride), the problem is that the other parties Tories, SNP, Plaid, LibDems all share many of the same economic assumptions so pull their punches when criticising him, this means that Brown looks the most convinving. Many voters are deeply unhappy with Brown, but the failure of any other parties to articulate an alternative strategy means that many are returning to Labour as the only game in town.

The SNP have floundered around the credit crunch, in the face of the recession their aim to push some social democratic policies within the framework of supporting neoliberalism is shot to pieces, this combined with the record of SNP administered councils of cuts and attacks, means that their bubble is being burst.

The only way Labour will be rolled back is 1) objectively I think as the reccession deepens, anger will start to rise 2) The nationalists will need to articulate a clear critique of Brown's handling of the credit crunch from the Left that will provide a focus for discontent in society.

In Wales where I live, you see the limitations of Nationalist politics.

On one hand, I would say the response of one or two Plaid politicians on the left of the party to the credit crunch has been very good focusing on the impact on ordinary people: raising the injustice of fuel poverty when the companies are raking in massive profits, criticising the bailout for banks with no bailout for people having their houses repossesed, taking a stand against the draconian welfare reform and winning the whole party to a paper position of opposition.

At the same time, the party as a whole has failed to articulate a very clear left wing dividing line between their response to the crunch and that of Labour and the mainstream. This is partly because in Wales - Plaid and New Labour share power, but also more generally arises from their politics of class collaboration and "the nation". So, for example, the Plaid leader of Caerphilly Council talks about grown up politics where the different parties working together in the face of this national crisis. But is it really a national crisis? For the rich it is business as usual. And is what we need co-operation between parties most of whom represent the interests of big business, or rather politicians who are prepared to stand out from the crowd and speak out clearly against the terrain of Brown's handling of the crisis.

 

[Fullyplumped]

This has been seen before on U75, and of course it's awfully disrespectful, but it's really quite good.

 

[david dissadent]

This has been seen before on U75, and of course it's awfully disrespectful, but it's really quite good.

*Yawn*

 

[Pinette]

With all my heart I disrespect Alex Salmond. He has been trumping up Trump's efforts to buy up the Aberdeenshire coastline in order to build a golfcourse. Lots of effort and wheeling and dealing went into that I'm sure because they have now achieved their aims and the golfcourse is now to be built. What a tosser! Plus, he looks like a frog

Maybe he has achieved what he set out to do? Make tons of dough?

 

[liampreston]

This has been seen before on U75, and of course it's awfully disrespectful, but it's really quite good.

Oh good, another Downfall parody....

 

[lewislewis]

I do think that this whole brief comeback for Labour is a sham and based on the artifical propping up of the banks. There is still going to be a 'deep recession' and unfortunately the Tories are still going to get in. Cameron however has almost zero popularity in Scotland or Wales.

 

[lewislewis]

But he isn't going to go away. Labour seems to have finally found someone who has the measure of Alex Salmond. Judging by the email to Labour party members from Gordon Brown today, in which he gets special thanks, Jim Murphy's star is only going to rise.

He's actually very nice when you meet him in person. And much bigger than you'd think. I doubt if you'd get a chance to lay a hand on him.

Also, from a purely selfish point of view, he deserves the respect of all gastronomes for the way in which - even as a vegetarian - he has promoted the case of Black Pudding from Stornoway to get special protection from the EU.

He is a right-winger who supports nuclear weapons, ID cards, the war in Iraq, top-up fees, foundation hospitals and attacks on the welfare system.

Well done.


http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/jim_murphy/renfrewshire_east#votingrecord

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Apologists for New Labour make me cringe, especially when they just don't see the need for the party to change its policies and cannot see that they have become Tories.

The Euphoria around Obama getting elected might look the same as that when Blair won in the UK but the events that follow need not be inevitably the same.

New Labour we now can see, wanted to get elected purely to be in power for its own sake and as a career choice for many of the MPs, not in order to pursue any particular ideological programme. Neither did they have any sense of their own historical origins. From the day they were elected in 97 they began the campaign for the following election by looking after the interests of the marginal voters in the 'swing' constituencies at the expense of the majority, thus undermining the so called democratic voting system.

Looking at the electoral victory of Obama in the US in the light of our own recent memories of the Blair confidence trick might mean that we are excessively pessimistic of Obamas future policy direction. However I think that the role of the American President at a time when the USA is in a period of crisis both in domestic economic terms and in international, diplomatic and military policies is very different from a UK Prime Minister. Obama is in a position to make a difference to the biggest superpower and perhaps is the first president not to be beholden to major business interests because of the way he raised many of his campaign funds from ordinary voters.

It would also be wrong to become disillusioned with Obama on the basis that he has promised substantial left wing or 'liberal' policies in American terms. He hasn't really despite the claims of the Republicans. All that he has said that he will do is to bring 'change' in the areas of health unemployment and the domestic economy. He has not mentioned the means of achieving this change. Similarly in foreign policy and the various wars and threats of war he has not stated any specifics but just by talking about them gives hope that he will look at altering policies, which would never have happened under a Republican president who would have needed to demonstrate 'continuity' and appeal for the inevitable 'patriot' interest which precludes questioning existing policies.

I wish Obama well. Change is needed and the fact that millions of Americans have voted for it means that there is hope. Lets not make judgements in advance of events.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Touching on Lewislewis' comment on Wales.

One thing that is bizarre here is sections of Welsh Labour led by Peter Hain MP think that the way to regain ground lost (Labour was hammered in its traditional heartlands in the valleys of South Wales) is to actually move to the right, they argue that Labour's hammering was because they haven't got with the New Labour Programme. The thinking is that the traditional working class core vote is gone, and Labour should appeal to the aspirational vote. A comrade of mine wrote an article on this

Sad to see that Hywel Francis MP, son of the great miners' leader Dai Francis is also singing from the same hymnsheet as Hain. Some may know Hywel Francis as a great labour historian, a man who fought to preserve the miners libraries, author of the classic document of the leftist counter-culture that arose among the Miners of South Wales (with Dai Smith), "The Fed" and "Miners against Fascism", one wonders what went wrong. Now he is the MP leading the charge preventing the Welsh Assembly from abolishing the right to buy council houses (to keep them in housing stock)

 

[treelover]

People are coming back because Labour has started concentrating on economics rather than on populist attacks on single mothers, young people, foreigners and the unemployed, ID cards, and stupid wars, which only play with people who are not going to vote Labour next time anyway

Eh, where do you get that idea, Brown has said he wants to 'intensify' welfare reform', the new draconian disability benefit, Employment Support Allowance came in last week, I think it will be the poor, etc who end up paying for the crisis.

juge them on actions, not just words...

 

[shagnasty]

I know we by experience are unsure of obama but if he does move to the left hopefully it will have a world wide affect we can hope but don,t hold your breath

 

[lewislewis]

Touching on Lewislewis' comment on Wales.

One thing that is bizarre here is sections of Welsh Labour led by Peter Hain MP think that the way to regain ground lost (Labour was hammered in its traditional heartlands in the valleys of South Wales) is to actually move to the right, they argue that Labour's hammering was because they haven't got with the New Labour Programme. The thinking is that the traditional working class core vote is gone, and Labour should appeal to the aspirational vote. A comrade of mine wrote an article on this

Sad to see that Hywel Francis MP, son of the great miners' leader Dai Francis is also singing from the same hymnsheet as Hain. Some may know Hywel Francis as a great labour historian, a man who fought to preserve the miners libraries, author of the classic document of the leftist counter-culture that arose among the Miners of South Wales (with Dai Smith), "The Fed" and "Miners against Fascism", one wonders what went wrong. Now he is the MP leading the charge preventing the Welsh Assembly from abolishing the right to buy council houses (to keep them in housing stock)

Good contribution Udo. Many well-meaning socialists have gone to Westminster but have then been caught up in the ceremonial trappings, good pay, allowances and have been changed by it.

Hywel Francis has also made very positive noises about the abolition of right to buy when it was being formulated in the Assembly- he indicated support for this policy, but has now backtracked to support Peter Hain over Wales' Assembly.

On a wider level, it's clear that with the new Obama/change expectations and Brown's repositioning, the nationalist parties need to reposition themselves further to the left and have a clear agenda in place for what to do in the recession. When Labour outflanks the nationalists to the left it does very well- see the South Wales Valleys in 2004 when Labour devastated Plaid by appearing as 'Old Labour' and advocating distance from Tony Blair. History does not agree with Peter Hain's interpretations. There are huge parts of Wales where the whole New Labour agenda doesn't make sense and where choice in public services doesn't work. There are different expectations and demands on the state in those places.

In Plaid I have only seen a socialist response to the recession being promoted by individual AMs and not by the party as a whole- this is a weakness. In the SNP I think they have just taken a centre-right approach to the recession, they haven't made enough noises about redistributing wealth or helping those hit the most by the credit crunch,

 

[danny la rouge]

But he isn't going to go away. Labour seems to have finally found someone who has the measure of Alex Salmond.

Jesus. That's it, is it? Personality politics between two right-leaning parties? Terrific.

 

[Fedayn]

But he isn't going to go away. Labour seems to have finally found someone who has the measure of Alex Salmond. Judging by the email to Labour party members from Gordon Brown today, in which he gets special thanks, Jim Murphy's star is only going to rise.

He's actually very nice when you meet him in person. And much bigger than you'd think. I doubt if you'd get a chance to lay a hand on him.

Also, from a purely selfish point of view, he deserves the respect of all gastronomes for the way in which - even as a vegetarian - he has promoted the case of Black Pudding from Stornoway to get special protection from the EU.

Behave will you, he's an utterly unprincipled snidey little shite who has gone from being a Palestinian scarf wearing fellow traveller of the RCP and Irish Freedom Movement to leading light in the Labour Friends of Israel and pal of loyalist/Orange flute bands from Thornliebank.
My best mate has known him 20 or so years. Murphy visibly blanched when being sat next to him at a Celtic game I mentioned that if it wasn't for bad timing he'd be sat next to said best mate. He then tried to skew the discussion elsewhere. He shat on his former mate Dougie Trainer who followed Murphy in regards to NUS.
He got caught lying on TV ie Trial by Night and got pulled up by Ministers regarding Minimum Income Guarantee. And had to apologise but balmed others for his own lied and inadequacy.
He was a joke on 'Off the Ball' Saturday just there. Attacking some Celtic fans for pointing out Reid et als hypocrisy and demanding that idiots who 'break the minutes silence'-not that anyone even tried to-be banned for life. The very behaviour Murphy was very much in favour of himself. He played the Poppy card again and again rather failing to mention his own hypocrisy in voting time and time again in sending ever more young men to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Murphy hasn't get the measure of his big nmouth let alone Salmonds lack of talent.

 

[HackneyE9]

Behave will you, he's an utterly unprincipled snidey little shite who has gone from being a Palestinian scarf wearing fellow traveller of the RCP and Irish Freedom Movement to leading light in the Labour Friends of Israel and pal of loyalist/Orange flute bands from Thornliebank.
My best mate has known him 20 or so years. Murphy visibly blanched when being sat next to him at a Celtic game I mentioned that if it wasn't for bad timing he'd be sat next to said best mate. He then tried to skew the discussion elsewhere. He shat on his former mate Dougie Trainer who followed Murphy in regards to NUS.
He got caught lying on TV ie Trial by Night and got pulled up by Ministers regarding Minimum Income Guarantee. And had to apologise but balmed others for his own lied and inadequacy.
He was a joke on 'Off the Ball' Saturday just there. Attacking some Celtic fans for pointing out Reid et als hypocrisy and demanding that idiots who 'break the minutes silence'-not that anyone even tried to-be banned for life. The very behaviour Murphy was very much in favour of himself. He played the Poppy card again and again rather failing to mention his own hypocrisy in voting time and time again in sending ever more young men to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Murphy hasn't get the measure of his big nmouth let alone Salmonds lack of talent.

Being an ex-head of the NUS seems a guarantee of cuntishness - viz, Jim Murphy, Lorna Fitzsimmonds, David Aaaronovitch, Charles Clarke, Trevor Philips....

 

[Fullyplumped]

Behave will you, he's an utterly unprincipled snidey little shite who has gone from being a Palestinian scarf wearing fellow traveller of the RCP and Irish Freedom Movement to leading light in the Labour Friends of Israel and pal of loyalist/Orange flute bands from Thornliebank.

Well we all did things when we were much younger we're ashamed of now. But I didn't know about the RCP and IFM connection. That is truly shocking and shows bad, bad judgement which makes anything daft I did in the past look perfectly fine in comparison.

As for palling-up with loyalists in Thornliebank - good for him! Every little counts. As far as I'm concerned if he can get them to vote Labour in his constituency then he deserves nothing but praise. If I recall correctly, when he first won his constituency from the Tories he had a higher Labour vote than any Labour MP in Scotland. I think he's worked out that he won't keep his seat without actually keeping in with the electorate.

 

[embree]

Being an ex-head of the NUS seems a guarantee of cuntishness - viz, Jim Murphy, Lorna Fitzsimmonds, David Aaaronovitch, Charles Clarke, Trevor Philips....

Jack Straw

 

[lewislewis]

Well we all did things when we were much younger we're ashamed of now. But I didn't know about the RCP and IFM connection. That is truly shocking and shows bad, bad judgement which makes anything daft I did in the past look perfectly fine in comparison.

As for palling-up with loyalists in Thornliebank - good for him! Every little counts. As far as I'm concerned if he can get them to vote Labour in his constituency then he deserves nothing but praise. If I recall correctly, when he first won his constituency from the Tories he had a higher Labour vote than any Labour MP in Scotland. I think he's worked out that he won't keep his seat without actually keeping in with the electorate.

Let's stop blathering about his personality and talk politics. How can you defend his voting record? He is one of the most right-wing New Labour MPs. And if you genuinely support playing up to sectarianism to gain votes for New Labour...I can see right through your bullshit to be honest.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Let's stop blathering about his personality and talk politics. How can you defend his voting record? He is one of the most right-wing New Labour MPs. And if you genuinely support playing up to sectarianism to gain votes for New Labour...I can see right through your bullshit to be honest.

This thread is about the Glenrothes by election. I mentioned Jim Murphy in his role as Secretary of State for Scotland and his role in the by-election campaign, and sought to dissuade a respected poster from thumping him because he's not as feeble as he maybe looks on telly and he'd likely get thumped.

I am not going to enter into an argument about his voting record. If you want to start a thread called "certain Labour MPs - I don't like them" you go ahead. You will probably get lots of people agreeing with you, which I hope will give you a warm feeling.

On the other hand, if you want to suggest that a candidate in a constituency should not try to persuade all potential electors to vote for him or her, let's hear more about that!

 

[lewislewis]

In the context of you saying that Jim Murphy 'isn't going to go away', I was suggesting that in fact him vanishing would be a good thing for humans.

 

[danny la rouge]

a respected poster

I think you should check your facts.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I think you should check your facts.

It's nice to be nice.

 

[belboid]

How can you defend his voting record?

she'd find it quite easy, because

He is one of the most right-wing New Labour MPs.

 

[ymu]

Just came across this and couldn't find any mention via search.

http://www.order-order.com/2009/02/glenrothe-votes-ghosts-and-posts.html

There appear to be hanging chad issues in Glenrothes, where surprisingly Labour, the underdogs, held the seat with a 6,737 majority against a strong SNP effort.

The Courier, a local newspaper, is reporting that the records have gone missing.

"In December the SNP in Glenrothes applied to the sheriff court to obtain a copy of the marked electoral register—on which officials in polling stations score out voters as they register to vote. It is the official record of who presented themselves to vote.

"Candidates and their agents are allowed to see a copy of the register, which records only who voted and not how they voted.

"However, after repeated requests for the document last month, Councillor John Beare, the convener of the SNP Central Fife constituency, has been told that it has gone missing."

Mike Smithson over at PoliticalBetting.com remarks that the "startling thing about Glenrothes was the massive increase in postal votes compared with the general election - up four-fold if I recall correctly. It all sounds fishy." Quite.