goldie to support sex pistols
- Thread starter ilovebush&blair
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Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Sorry for coming over all JC2ish but it is worth repeating the first couple of verses of this song because it is still quite pertinent, let alone how unique and brave it was then...editor said:
The British Police are the best in the world
I don't believe one of these stories I've heard
'Bout them raiding our pubs for no reason at all
Lining the customers up by the wall
Picking out people and knocking them down
Resisting arrest as they're kicked on the ground
Searching their houses and calling them queer
I don't believe that sort of thing happens here
Sing if you're glad to be gay
Sing if you're happy that way
Pictures of naked young women are fun
In Titbits and Playboy, page three of The Sun
There's no nudes in Gay News our last magazine
But they still find excuses to call it obscene
Read how disgusting we are in the press
The News of The World and the Sunday Express
Molesters of children, corruptors of youth
It's there in the paper, it must be the truth
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
editor said:
How many black punk bands were there?
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
.....how many asian bands?
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
....how many female?
editor
hiraethified
I really can't be arsed to fill in woeful the gaps in your knowledge - plus I imagine you're more interested in another of your childish point-scoring competitions - but really are out of your depth here.DrRingDing said:
Try typing "women" and "punk" into Google and you might learn about the likes of Siouxsie, Pauline Murray, Poly Styrene, The Raincoats, The Slits etc etc. Women played a big part in punk.
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
Augie March said:I can't say I'm all that knowledgable in the history of drum and bass, I've only really got into it recently. However, it's always had a kind of anti-establishment feel to me, a scene that's not really been embraced in popular culture. There's a sense of an underground community to it, one I would akin to what I would've thought the old punk scene was like.
Of course, someone can probably correct me if I'm wrong here though, I was born in 1982 after all and missed the entire punk explosion by a good couple of years.
Yeah, anti establishment as criminality rather than revolution or alienation.
D n B sounds good, don't let's give it any further status than that.
Augie March
blahem
chainsaw cat said:
Yeah, I see your point there and you are right.
Drum and bass is not particulary revolutionary or based on any kind of alienation, but I feel both of those attitudes have been pretty much been commercially absorbed now. The big label backing and success of bands such as My Chemical Romance and Green Day is evidence to this. The kind of revolution and alienation, as created by punk music, is a commodity now to major record labels. It's packaged off and sold to disillusioned teenagers as if it is anti-establishment, but it's nothing of the sort.
Perhaps the real revolution lies elsewhere in music, and why not drum and bass?
JoePolitix
Gone
Timeless (the 21 minute track) - still the best d n b tune ever. Here's the Inner City Life segment:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x8u7MNG-ug8
Sends shivers down my spine.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x8u7MNG-ug8
Sends shivers down my spine.
spacemonkey
I Love Noodles
JoePolitix said:
Just put it on.
So so good. I love drum n bass but there really isn't much to it outside the music.
isvicthere? said:
Right enough. And where are the mass movements taking action around any of those issues, let alone joining the dots between them? 30 years ago, there was a distiinct Labour movement, a Left. There was a sense that working people could take power over the world around them: that didn't happen because of , say, the Clash., they were simply trying to make sense of the world around them.
isvicthere?}I think when you say "apolitical" you surely mean "apathetic". And IMVHO it's incumbent upon artists said:
Well, you have a point. And, on reflection, I was wrong in any case to make the claim I did about the depoliticised nature of the genres I mentioned: Kode 9 and SpaceApe's work, for example, is full of social comment. But I still amintain that, if you're waiting for musicians to change the world for you, you'll be waiting a long time.
editor said:
In fairness, neither has drum and bass had an equivalent to Siouxise Sioux and Sidney Vish twatting around in swastikas or moaning about there being "too many Jews for my liking." Nor has Grooverider followed Adam Ant's lead by advising his fans to "Light up a Beacon on a Puerto Rican". DJ Hype has not gone on record as sharing Ian Curtis' fond memories of Rudolph Hess and the genre as a whole is unlikely ever to be played at an NF sponsored Rock Against Communism event.
Don't get me wrong: I love loads of punk stuff, but the movement came out of a confused, polarised times and its content reflected that. The airbrushed consensus depiction of punk as wholly and intrinsically "progressive" is inaccurate and disingenuous, IMVHO.
ska invita
back on the other side
editor said:
The Dance/Ecstasy revolution in Brtain of 88 onwards has had an enormous impact on all our lives, and particularly on those who took part directly.
Defining what that effect is is hard, because it was ultimately born of law breaking, hedonism and
ouchmonkey
Singe Gainsbourg
editor said:
and punk?
plenty black faces in all those bands..........
there's, er, Poly Styrene and er,
editor said:
Huh? It's a far more racially heterogeneous scene than punk ever was, as can be witnessed not least by the presence/participation of Asians, a group who didn't appear to have been invited to the Punky Reggae party (as the Clash's manager Bernie Rhodes once put it, "a lot of Pakis deserve the shit they get."
)
editor
hiraethified
That doesn't explain how d'n'b uniquely "smashed race boundaries" over many other forms of music from jazz onwards.Pigeon said:
Punk helped bring about the rich mix of musical cultures we enjoy today so perhaps you might explain d'n'b's particular contributions and its political message here?
Oh, and I could just as easily post up a ton of pictures from d'n'b clubs without a single black or Asian face in sight, but I don't really see the point of that argument. I was talking about the political impact of punk on issues like feminism and racism and looking for parallels with d'n'b.
And I think your point about Asians not being involved in punk is a bit historically confused too. What kind of British Asian identity do you think had been established in the mid-70s? How much do you think the pp cultures crossed over anywhere?
Incidentally, ASIAN DUB FOUNDATION describes themselves as "Punk / Drum & Bass / Dub" on their MySpace page. That should keep us all happy, no?
editor
hiraethified
Nothing better than pulling out-of-context quotes out of the history bag to score cheap points, eh?Pigeon said:
Punk happened in the stone age 70s, so retro-fitting your 'PC' glasses isn't really going to help the debate. Back then, just appearing onstage with a black act could be seen as a political act - and something that could lead to you getting your face filled in by the charmers from the NF.
That's not to say that there weren't some racist/sexist twats involved in the scene though. No doubt d'n'b's the same.
I'm quite sure you could (though, of course, much of the music played would be by black artists). But I'd be amazed if anyone in that white crowd was wearing a swastika armband. The point with RAR is that the anti-racist element in punk actively had to define itself as such: the NF was keen to claim the movement as its own, elements within the punk scene were quite happy to flirt with fascism and even the most blatantly leftist band announced its arrival barking about a white riot and looking short-haired, belligerent and very very white. There was simply no similar need for drum and bass to define itself as explicitly anti-racist. It just implicitly is.editor said:
Definitely, you have a point there. But the fact remains that there was no conscious effort within punk to show solidarity with Asian victims of racism, quite the reverse in fact: blacks (and particularly Rastas) were seen as cool, as fellow Rebel Rockers. Asians were outcasts: I've already referenced the Rhodes quote, and I distinctly remember reading the likes of Paul Simonon reminiscing about their youthful "Paki-bashing" skinhead days. In other words, punk was a product of its historical circumstances.editor said:
editor said:Incidentally, ASIAN DUB FOUNDATION describes themselves as "Punk / Drum & Bass / Dub" on their MySpace page. That should keep us all happy, no?
editor
hiraethified
Do you really think that the swasatika was always being worn as a badge of support of racism?Pigeon said:
For many it was just a way of shocking and winding up their parents, nothing more. Again, you have to understand the times. I can remember hippies wearing iron crosses and I'm pretty sure they weren't doing it in support of Hitler.
editor said:
Ah, me bollocks. Siouxsie's been saying that for the past 30 years. But she not only wore the armband, she wrote the lyric about "too many Jews". When pulled up about it said that she meant dodgy business men- which didn't exactly help.
Similarly Vicious paraded around (or, perhaps more accurately was paraded round) a Jewish area of Paris, wearing his swastika T-shirt for the footage used in the Great Rock nh Roll Swindle. I don't believe his parents lived there.
What's intersting is the way all this gets airbrushed: the Ants' Puerto Rico song is mysteriously absent from the Peel Sessions record, even though it was recorded and broadcast: Sidney's T-shirt magically turned into a hammer and sickle one for Alex Cox's film: and intelligent, informed people take at face value Siouxise's preposterous claim that swastikas and songs about grasping Jews had nothing at all to do with fascism.
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