Going to California episode 2.

[Pickman's model]

Quite. I remember the time I was robbed when I lived in Madrid. I got back to my flat and my flatmate's (Spanish) girlfriend immediately asked me if they were Moroccan. I then went to the police station where they again felt it necessary to deliberately ask me if they were Moroccan.

How the fuck I was supposed to instantly know the origins of two men who grabbed me from behind and never spoke is beyond me.

are you moroccan?

 

[Treacle Toes]

To quote from Stan's posts: (apologies for the cut and paste, but in this case I think it is relevant for clearing up the "confusion" about what was actually said)





So, based on these quotes, directly from Stan, I stand by my statement, and think that some posters are mis-remembering what he actually said.

Selective quoting...go back to the thread, read my questions of him and his direct repsonses in full.

Actually, no, don't bother. I don't care. Create whatever impression of the conversation you wish.

 

[Sweet FA]

dessiato, you're not that thick. No matter how he dissembled, justified and flapped, Stan used that "dirty little Moroccan" phrase unthinkingly. He used it because it's like a racist collocation in southern Spain. He's just telling it like it is though, the iconoclast.

 

[dessiato]

Selective quoting...go back to the thread, read my questions of him and his direct repsonses in full.

Anyway, no, don't bother. I don't care. Create whatever impression of the conversation you wish.

Yes it is selective quoting, it is quoting what Stan said, not what others said he'd said. Based on his posts, I will stick to my position. Prior to posting my last post I did read the whole thread. On this occasion I think you are not reading it with an open mind. I think some are replying very much to what they think he said, not at all what he did say.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Yes it is selective quoting, it is quoting what Stan said, not what others said he'd said. Based on his posts, I will stick to my position. Prior to posting my last post I did read the whole thread. On this occasion I think you are not reading it with an open mind. I think some are replying very much to what they think he said, not at all what he did say.

Let me be absolutely clear. On the question of racist comments and racist behaviour I will never have the imagined, cliched, little open mind that you are alluding to, like there's something wrong with me, perhaps I'm too sensitive and emotional and should develop a thicker skin? I will challenge it, whether it be loveable rogue Stan or anyone else.

I know enough about Spain, Spanish culture etc to know that Stan's comment was racist. If you can't and won't accept I don't care. You'll never make me feel bad for standing up to racism or challenging it in meaningful ways, never, ever.

I see you didn't quote the bit where Stan called me a racist for having the gall to call him on why what he said was dodgey. Like I said, selective quoting.

I think you'll find it was more than simply stating their ethnic origin...the additon of 'dirty little..' spoke volumes.

Do you refer to Spanish children who steal as 'dirty little Spaniards'?

Did you ever refer to English children who steal as 'dirty little English'? I doubt it.

I refer to any thieving cunts as dirty little fuckers. Wouldn't think twice about kicking them in the back of the head also.

Fuck off you racist bigot.

Racist against who Stan, you? What for calling on your own slips into racism? Yeah of course I am.

Dirty little fuckers eh? Interesting...not dirty little English though eh?

Fuck you and grow up!

Yeah, I am a racist bigot? I'm bigoted against racists. The double speak and shift of responsibility is Orwellian, but don't let that stop you dess. Cos stan's a lovely guy really and that means he can say what he likes.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Yes it is selective quoting, it is quoting what Stan said, not what others said he'd said. Based on his posts, I will stick to my position. Prior to posting my last post I did read the whole thread. On this occasion I think you are not reading it with an open mind. I think some are replying very much to what they think he said, not at all what he did say.

Firstly, you've missed out the posts in which Stanley doubles down on the whole "Moroccans do all the stealing round here" thing.

Who?

You calling me a cunt? I will fully admit that there wasn't a need to point out their nationality, but they were Moroccan. I spent time with them eventually. Even got a €5 bud for €4 from them. Just young kids, but young kids out to rob. They know me now, and won't even think about it. However, I am very sorry to say that it is young Moroccan kids who do the most thieving in Granada.

Sorry.

Sorry to have to say it, but that is just the way it is. The Moroccan community here wouldn't argue, never mind call me a cunt, so what is your propblem?

I am not a cunt. I am a very nice man. Sorry to point out the nationality, but, like I say, it is who they are. Many 'street kids' from Morocco are given a chance here. Many of them don't have any other idea of how to survive. Also, because they know they can get away with it (there is no punishment, fine, or legal record - simply go to the police station to do the paperwork and get back to 'work' on the streets within an hour) it is the easy option.

If Rick Steve can wrongfully point fingers at Eastern Europeans and North European 'hippies' for being the crooks, then I can very legitimately point fingers at the young Moroccon kids who steal from tourists.

Well fuck off.

I call any thieving little cunts what they are regardless of skin colour, or nationality. I know these kids stole from a homeless guy the evening before. They are dirty little shites. Sorry.

Having just lost close to €3,000 to them I have have very little sympathy. They get a free bed. They get food. They get benefits. They then choose to rob the most desperate.

Fuck them. Dirty, thieving little fuckers who happen to come from Morocco.

OK. They are thieving little fuckers who happen to be Moroccan.

Is that better?

You know what? When I go to the police station to report theft they ask me what the culprits look like.

Erm... sort of Morrocan.

The only reason they are dirty little fuckers is because they robbed.

But, they were Moroccan.

Moroccan thieving cunts. Sorry about that. If they had been English, or East European, or North European (as per the Rick Steve quote) I would have said so. OK? Or, not OK?

If Rick Steve can point fingers (very wrongly) at Eastern and Northern Europeans why can't I state the fact that Moroccan kids steal from people in Spain. Dirty little thieving fuckers.

Everybody who thieves from me, my mates, or anybody else is a dirty little fucker who never wants to be caught by me.

IME I have only been robbed by Morrocan kids. This is the fact of the matter. Ask any police in Barcelona, or here in Granada (where theft is very rare) who the most likely culprits are.

I am not racist. I am fucking well angry.

Secondly, even without the bundle of charming generalisations that came forth afterwards. The original form is racist. "Dirty" has form in these kinds of depictions of North African people.

 

[dessiato]

If I believed that Stan was being racist then I would have no problem at all condemning him. But I don't believe that, at least in the this case, that he is. I guess we'll need to accept that we don't see it the same way.

 

[Lo Siento.]

are you moroccan?

You've met me, couldn't you tell?

 

[Miss Caphat]

even though the racism thing is disturbing (though not surprising), I find myself being more concerned at the moment about the 300,000 euros thing and how Stan suddenly has amassed this large sum of money and why he's fleeing to California with it to apparently spend it all

seems really shady.

 

[Lo Siento.]

If I believed that Stan was being racist then I would have no problem at all condemning him. But I don't believe that, at least in the this case, that he is. I guess we'll need to accept that we don't see it the same way.

Can I assume from this that you think it's ok to both use loaded adjectives to describe people and to generalise about nationalities based on anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias?

 

[Santino]

If I believed that Stan was being racist then I would have no problem at all condemning him. But I don't believe that, at least in the this case, that he is. I guess we'll need to accept that we don't see it the same way.

Stop this.

 

[Treacle Toes]

even though the racism thing is disturbing (though not surprising), I find myself being more concerned at the moment about the 300,000 euros thing and how Stan suddenly has amassed this large sum of money and why he's fleeing to California with it to apparently spend it all

seems really shady.

Or bullshit.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Not without being given a chance to retract it, apologise etc. I'm sure I've seen that before on here.

he was offered the chance when challenged on it by rutita and myself. he called her a racist bigot for even mentioning it? you going to defend him bullying her? you don't think that his attempts to paint her as a racist for standing up to racism are out of order when you can't defend his initial behaviour?

 

[Miss Caphat]

Or bullshit.

I've never known Stan to outright lie about details like that. But maybe I'm wrong

 

[gabi]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

 

[Pickman's model]

You've met me, couldn't you tell?

i don't recall the question of nationality arising

 

[el-ahrairah]

even though the racism thing is disturbing (though not surprising), I find myself being more concerned at the moment about the 300,000 euros thing and how Stan suddenly has amassed this large sum of money and why he's fleeing to California with it to apparently spend it all

seems really shady.

for my money, he's not shady. he's 50% fantasist, and the other 50% con-artist. but people on here defend him, send him money and toys and support whatever he says and does unconditionally. i guess they've become invested in the notion of Good Guy Stan and don't want to admit they've been conned.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

what, you hate jews and arabs who are citizens of the zionist entity simply because they are citizens of the zionist entity?

 

[Miss Caphat]

it seems unfair that in every thread about racism it has to be defined for some people who don't get what it is.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I've never known Stan to outright lie about details like that. But maybe I'm wrong

Yeah, I wasn't entirely serious and of course have no idea. Time will tell.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

well, actually yes. you racist fuck.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

Good grief...you have the gall to call others dimwitted?

 

[Miss Caphat]

for my money, he's not shady. he's 50% fantasist, and the other 50% con-artist. but people on here defend him, send him money and toys and support whatever he says and does unconditionally. i guess they've become invested in the notion of Good Guy Stan and don't want to admit they've been conned.

wow, I didn't know people here sent him money, etc!

I knew that others did through his "charity work" and such.

 

[twentythreedom]

He can unquestionably be a dick. But that can be said for all of us. He is definitely not a racist though. And only an utter fuckwit would suggest he is.

Banned for being a dick then. I'm surprised you've lasted so long on those grounds tbh

 

[Lo Siento.]

Are you all seriously thick enough to believe Stan is racist? Or even that Moroccans are a race?

I hate Israelis. Does that me racist? No, it doesn't. You dimwitted fucks.

Neither you, nor I, have the slightest idea what Stan (or anyone else) thinks deep down about other races and nationalities, as we're not mindreaders. I am, however, perfectly capable of reading a series of statements and deciding their content is racist.

Moroccans aren't a race? Then define race for me. Is African a race? Is White? What about Slav? Caucasian? Muslim? Jew? Asian? Gujarati? Sinhalese? Are you really incapable of imagining that racism could be expressed through reference to nationality?

Oh, and if you hate all Israeli individuals, regardless of their own personal beliefs and actions, then yes, congratulations, you're a racist.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Every single time anyone anywhere in the world is accused of saying or doing something racist, someone will come forward to say, "oh, him? He hasn't a racist bone in his body", like they've got some psychic connection to this person's inner world and can indeed confirm that he's never thought a prejudiced thought in his entire life. Every. Single. Time.

 

[DotCommunist]

Are people seriously going stand by "dirty little Moroccans" on here?

nope. gabi an't spot his own dodgy ground when he starts with his muslim hating spiel so its no suprise he can't see whats wrong with the above

 

[Miss Caphat]

Every single time anyone anywhere in the world is accused of saying or doing something racist, someone will come forward to say, "oh, him? He hasn't a racist bone in his body", like they've got some psychic connection to this person's inner world and can indeed confirm that he's never thought a prejudiced thought in his entire life. Every. Single. Time.

I think when people say this they mean that the person has never done a racist action...like calling someone the n-word to their face or spitting at them or something. I think this is a major flaw/ misunderstanding in the dialogue (or lack thereof) due to what we're taught racism is through media, etc.

 

[Sweet FA]

If I believed that Stan was being racist then I would have no problem at all condemning him. But I don't believe that, at least in the this case, that he is. I guess we'll need to accept that we don't see it the same way.

Oh. You are that thick.