Going through red lights

[roryer]

Generally, cyclists should stop at red lights.

Perhaps, but I prefer the following rule of thumb... Cyclists should always be considerate of other road users, particularily pedestrians, and never cycle in such a way as to risk collision with pedestrians particularily when not stopping at a red light.

In terms of designing for cyclists, I think the comments from Germany are useful. The pedestrian hatred of cyclists seems confined to countries where the car rules.

I believe the nature of our road system encourages cyclists to ride more agressively, when cycling in Holland I ride much more casually as I am usually enjoying the experience, and not feeling stressed out by the need to negotiate through traffic, I'm quite happy to wait for the green cycle to cross roads as I know I won't wait long, I don't need to force my way to the front of traffic as I'm not forced to cycle in amongst car traffic at all.

Although Amsterdam is an exception as tourists treat the cycle lanes as extention of the pavement, conflicts between pedestrians and cyclists seem rare elsewhere.

There is widescale use of shared space in the Dutch system, with cycle lanes and footways often being shared in rural areas, and this in my experience leads to very few conflicts. In Strasbourg trams, pedestrians and cyclists all share the car free city centre without any problem.

I know we have a long way to go to get proper cycle provision in the UK, but in the meantime, there are justifications for cyclists to ocassionally jump red lights, when this is done with consideration for other road user I simply don't see the problem.

 

[fredfelt]

Although Amsterdam is an exception as tourists treat the cycle lanes as extention of the pavement, conflicts between pedestrians and cyclists seem rare elsewhere.

That is a good comment. I lived in Holland for a while and when people come to visit you always have to remind them to look out for cycle paths as British folk are only really used to looking out for cars.

 

[Urbanblues]

From this:

May I suggest that when we have a system of investment in cycle infrastructure that exceeds that dedicated to the car I will then obey all road signals.

To this.

Perhaps, but I prefer the following rule of thumb... Cyclists should always be considerate of other road users, particularily pedestrians, and never cycle in such a way as to risk collision with pedestrians particularily when not stopping at a red light.

In terms of designing for cyclists, I think the comments from Germany are useful. The pedestrian hatred of cyclists seems confined to countries where the car rules.

I believe the nature of our road system encourages cyclists to ride more agressively, when cycling in Holland I ride much more casually as I am usually enjoying the experience, and not feeling stressed out by the need to negotiate through traffic, I'm quite happy to wait for the green cycle to cross roads as I know I won't wait long, I don't need to force my way to the front of traffic as I'm not forced to cycle in amongst car traffic at all.

Although Amsterdam is an exception as tourists treat the cycle lanes as extention of the pavement, conflicts between pedestrians and cyclists seem rare elsewhere.

There is widescale use of shared space in the Dutch system, with cycle lanes and footways often being shared in rural areas, and this in my experience leads to very few conflicts. In Strasbourg trams, pedestrians and cyclists all share the car free city centre without any problem.

I know we have a long way to go to get proper cycle provision in the UK, but in the meantime, there are justifications for cyclists to ocassionally jump red lights, when this is done with consideration for other road user I simply don't see the problem.

This is progress.

Rory, like most pedestrians (a wheelchair user who doesn’t drive a mechanised vehicle; and, travels on the pavement at a considerably slower speed than most cycles [around 2 mph]) I don’t hate cyclists; Christ, that’d mean I hated several family members as well as lots of friends.

No, what I ‘hate’ is being run into by cyclists who are not abiding by the rules and codes of road and pavement use. I am equally hostile to people who cut across me without looking, sometimes falling on me and in the process hurting me; the same goes for people who walk or step out backwards onto me.

I suppose my pet ‘hates’ are a manifestation of my selfishness, and aversion to unnecessary pain and discomfort – pain that is, over and above my inbuilt chronic pain syndrome.

 

[beeboo]

I think the problem is that everyone can cite an example of cyclist jumping the lights when it wasn't a good idea - even if it is just causing another road user to be startled.

However, there are no doubt lots of times when a cyclist going through a red goes unnoticed, not through sheer good luck but because the cyclist has exercised their good judgement that it is safe and appropriate to do so.

Unfortunately I do witness a lot of the former, but I like to think I only ever do the latter.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

yes i second that beeboo even if it makes me to admit it

most of the time i stop at reds but exercise the judgement to go a few seconds early across big or difficult junctions or just to get out of the way of traffic - better than wobbling about next to a car in a smaller road (better for both of us)

also what roryer said: hostile conditions in the uk tend to make cyclists hostile

when you are facing the very real possibility that you might be killed EVERY TIME YOU RIDE YOUR BIKE! which at the back of our minds is true i think that can make us aggressive and like we are on a mission - at the very least it produces lots of adrenaline

there is also a pressure to ride to keep up with traffic to get round

all the cyclists i saw in cologne were just pootling along

and ffs - why is it always the cyclists who are having to defend or argue when really its private cars that are the problem?

/feel better now

 

[roryer]

I agree with everything Miss Shelf and Beeboo say.

I think the reason why it's always the cyclists who are having to defend or argue the point is that most people realise we have a case, and that makes them angry.

 

[Urbanblues]

However, there are no doubt lots of times when a cyclist going through a red goes unnoticed, not through sheer good luck but because the cyclist has exercised their good judgement that it is safe and appropriate to do so.

However, there are no doubt lots of times when a cyclist going through a red goes unnoticed, not through sheer good luck but because the cyclist has exercised their good judgement that it is safe and appropriate to do so.

Could we apply the same rule to motorists who exceed speed limits in built-up and residential areas? Why not do away with drink-drive laws; lots of drivers will tell you they’ve driven while under the influence; and, swear that their judgement is good.

For fuck’s sake; we have rules by which we’re all expected to abide. For the most part, when we infringe these rules we’re penalised in some way; except cyclists, that is.

If cyclists believe these rules to be wrong; they need to get them changed; because then, and only then can the playing field be level. When I’m crossing a traffic junction on green in my wheelchair; I don’t expect cyclists, who are disregarding the red lights to impede my crossing the road – unfortunately, at some busy points there may be anything between 10 and 15 cyclists jockeying for position; and, poor me being low down am not always seen by some of the more eager skittish bike users.

 

[Urbanblues]

I agree with everything Miss Shelf and Beeboo say.

I think the reason why it's always the cyclists who are having to defend or argue the point is that most people realise we have a case, and that makes them angry.

So, the concerns and worries of wheelchair users, even lower down in the pecking order, count for nothing? Well, fuck all cyclists and motorists for the selfish cunts you are. With a bit of luck, the one will mow down the other; the mowed down will go down into the ground; and, the mowers will be sent down. That ought to make life easier for us poor wheelchair users.

 

[gentlegreen]

Don't worry Urbanblues, we aren't all like that by a long chalk.

Just lately I've found myself facing-off lycra louts cycling into town with the same selfish driving style you encounter on motorways.
I used to only have to do that to cars .....

Empathy is what's missing on the roads today.
Motorists seem to develop an autistic disorder as soon as they get into their cars - and I'm now getting cut up by these idiot "fellow" cyclists. I'm psyching myself up for physical confrontation in the near future ...

 

[Urbanblues]

Don't worry Urbanblues, we aren't all like that by a long chalk.

Just lately I've found myself facing-off lycra louts cycling into town with the same selfish driving style you encounter on motorways.
I used to only have to do that to cars .....

Empathy is what's missing on the roads today.
Motorists seem to develop an autistic disorder as soon as they get into their cars - and I'm now getting cut up by these idiot "fellow" cyclists. I'm psyching myself up for physical confrontation in the near future ...

Cheers Gentlegreen; I know you're not all bad people; and, nor do I wish cyclists or motorists any harm or ill will.

Empathy, and a realisation that we’re all just trying to get from A to B as quickly and in as few pieces as possible.

Go in Peace; but, don’t arrive in pieces, as I always say – actually that was the first time; but, by the time I milk it for all its worth…

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Go in Peace; but, don’t arrive in pieces, as I always say – actually that was the first time; but, by the time I milk it for all its worth…

peds and wheelchair users should get priority - unfortunately cyclists have adopted a top down aggressive approach as they are cut no slack in the transportation system

ps: i would say the majority of cyclists on my daily comute around hackney/mile end DO NOT wait the whole time for red lights

i am always amazed to read here and other cycling press that the majority DO wait the whole time for red lights

 

[lighterthief]

i am always amazed to read here and other cycling press that the majority DO wait the whole time for red lights

Me too, because it's absolute bollocks and everybody knows it.

 

[Cobbles]

should be legal for bikes. Discuss.

Fine so long as hitting a bike that ran a red light provides no civil or criminal liability implications (other that automatic trauma compensation payments for the non-cyclists).

 

[Mrs Miggins]

i am always amazed to read here and other cycling press that the majority DO wait the whole time for red lights

Yes we do. The majority do in my experience. I sit at red lights with far more cyclists than go through. It seems to me that people only notice the ones who do not stop and so assume that the majority do not stop. Which is absolute bollocks.

 

[kyser_soze]

I make a call on whether it's safe for me to go through one - never cut through peds, never jump out in front of traffic...TBH it's not that hard to work out whether it's unsafe to do so, and to not be a twat to peds crossing the road...

 

[dream_girl]

a bloke at work was guffawing about a pedestrian who belted a cyclist off his bike today, as he was going through a red light.

I got chased by a low forehead type when I went through traffic lights at Lewisham. He was shouting about me going through a red light while people were crossing. Luckily I was faster than him, he was threatening to kill me.

And here is the problem - if violence is an acceptable solution then what happens when moronic types decide they can legitimately intimidate others.

Oh yeah - I forgot to mention - I hadn't gone through a red light - it was green, but this bloke was an idiot.

 

[Badgers]

All these arguments just remind me that there are simply too many humans.

Bring on the plague

 

[Hocus Eye.]

If any cyclist puts my life at risk by crossing a red light as I cross the road I will do my best to put his life at risk if he has not got clean away.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

All these arguments just remind me that there are simply too many humans.

That's kinda what I think is at the bottom of all this....particularly in London, there are just so many people trying to get around that everyone is wound up and just wants to have a go at someone else for the slightest misdemeanour. We just can't wait to slag each other off and vent some of that frustration.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

If any cyclist puts my life at risk by crossing a red light as I cross the road I will do my best to put his life at risk if he has not got clean away.

To which I could say - I'm going to ride straight into the the next fucking pedestrian who steps off the pavement without looking

 

[Hocus Eye.]

To which I could say - I'm going to ride straight into the the next fucking pedestrian who steps off the pavement without looking

Fairy Nuff

 

[gentlegreen]

Prompted by this thread and a couple of near misses with 4-wheeled morons on the way home, I found myself taking some liberties at a junction where the traffic was approaching grid-lock. (viz. defining my own advance box).

 

[Hellsbells]

I was cycling along the other day when a pedestrian suddently screamed at me, pretty much directly in my ear as i rode past him - 'you bitch. Go on, go through the red lights, i know you're going to'.
It really upset me. Especially since I never do go through bloody red lights.

 

[kyser_soze]

Prompted by this thread and a couple of near misses with 4-wheeled morons on the way home, I found myself taking some liberties at a junction where the traffic was approaching grid-lock. (viz. defining my own advance box).

I had some twat in a Megane scenic draw up into the advance box level with me so rolled the bike over dead in front of them and sat in the middle of the lane going really slowly for about 30 yards before they could overtake me...oh how I laughed

 

[christonabike]

People are jealous of cyclists and the way they nip about town

 

[Mrs Miggins]

People are jealous of cyclists and the way they nip about town

Totally!!

 

[gentlegreen]

I had some twat in a Megane scenic draw up into the advance box level with me so rolled the bike over dead in front of them and sat in the middle of the lane going really slowly for about 30 yards before they could overtake me...oh how I laughed

Curiously it was a Megane that cut me up last night and then held me up for the next 50 yards because of all the parked cars - until it stopped suddenly outside a private school - I felt obliged to give it a healthy slap as I passed ...

 

[Crispy]

I had some twat in a Megane scenic draw up into the advance box level with me so rolled the bike over dead in front of them and sat in the middle of the lane going really slowly for about 30 yards before they could overtake me...oh how I laughed

I always go round in front of vehicles parked in the ASZ. I roll back untill my back tire almost touches their bumper, look them in the eye, then go back to waiting for green. (And I'll wait for green, not amber)

 

[christonabike]

What you want to do then is then look over your shoulder to check your back light is on

 

[Badgers]

That's kinda what I think is at the bottom of all this....particularly in London, there are just so many people trying to get around that everyone is wound up and just wants to have a go at someone else for the slightest misdemeanour. We just can't wait to slag each other off and vent some of that frustration.

Aye...

I can see why a cyclist does not want to wait at a red light, especially next to a lorry/bus. However if that was me then I would wait a little back and let this vehicle pull away.

Cycling is a good option (possibly the best) for city travel.
I am glad I don't drive a car too, have seen some car drivers act quickly to stop themselves running over a ignorant cyclist or pedestrian too!

If we were to build a city from scratch it would have excellent transport infrastructure. Sadly our tubes/roads/pavements hark back to an era when the population of London was 67 people, 3 dogs and 2 rats