Going through red lights

[Mrs Miggins]

I don't think it's ever justified to jump red lights. As a cyclist you are a road user and therefore should obey the road signals. It is possible to safely navigate that Effra Road junction and that one in Kennington on a bike without resoprting to jumping the lights. If you are that concerned about safety, you can just get off the bike and cross the road on foot (like Crispy says).

I believe that jumping lights for the majority of cyclists is more about getting to your destination as quickly as possible but many seem to try to justify it on the grounds of safety.

That's my two pennorth! and I speak as a cyclist.

 

[Crispy]

I almost toatlly agree with you Miggins. But having seen the danger that taking that junction legally puts people in, I stick by my words. It's a very rare case, and I don't personally do it (I go down brixton road). I also don't think it should be done while traffic is merging (loads of people carry straight on down the bus lane). Jumping the red at this junction, in the manner described, does absolutely nothing for speeding up the hourney - there's another set of lights just ahead. But it does remove a very dangerous bit of riding, in among accelerating and lane-changing traffic.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

It is a crappy junction so I do see your point in this case at least!

 

[Urbanblues]

Guerrilla cyclists are, often, aggressive and violent road (and pavement) users who regard other road (and pavement) users with contempt; traffic signals and the Highway Code are there to be ignored. They would, possibly, justify their actions as a response to their vulnerability on roads predominantly populated with motorised vehicles; the inconsiderate driving of motorists; and, the selfish motives of pedestrians who insist on walking slower than cycles on pavements, and who insist on crossing roads on green signals when cyclists need to run red lights.

If you have the time and inclination, you could search the U57 archives; I recall reading posts on here, earlier in the year, of a guerrilla cyclist who would smash his metal U-lock onto a car that in some way upset him.

 

[Crispy]

I recall reading posts on here, earlier in the year, of a guerrilla cyclist who would smash his metal U-lock onto a car that in some way upset him.

Yeah I remember too. No excuses for that sort of thing.

 

[mauvais]

Another place where I'd say it's fine to jump a red as a cyclist, is coming south by kennington park, at the juntion of kennington park road. If you want to go down clapham road, or turn right past oval tube station, a cyclist entering the junction via the bus lane has to cross 3-4 lanes of moving traffic to get in lane. It's dangerous, and I've seen plenty of near misses.

To clarify, I do not endorse racing through the red, but stopping, checking that there's nothing around, waiting for the merging traffic to stop, then taking advantage of the 5 second gap before the ahead lights turn green. This lets you get to the next set of lights in the correct lane, without having to deal with multiple lanes of de-merging traffic..

What do you do if the lights are green then?

If you know the traffic lights are staying red, I'd get myself to the front right, even if this means going over the line.

If not, then you only have to have crossed one lane by point C.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Guerrilla cyclists are, often, aggressive and violent road (and pavement) users who regard other road (and pavement) users with contempt;

People like that are just c*nts who happen to ride a bike....I hate that kind of attitude.

 

[Orang Utan]

Cars can turn right (left for us) on a red in the US. However, the precise rule is that a red light means a Stop sign, so cars must stop, check that the way is clear, then proceed. I think a variation on this rule could work for cycles. OR an extra signal in the phasing of lights that means "Ok to go for cycles, as there's no merging traffic or pedestrians, but cars - you'll have to wait a little bit longer"

But regular red lights, in the system we currently have? No. Rules of the road work well when they make behaviour predictable.

In Rome, cars can turn right if there's no pedestrians, but of course drivers interpret that very casually and you have to be very brave when stepping out into the road - drivers will stop if you're right in front of them though and they don't get all hot and bothered like they would over here - in fact I prefer Rome as a pedestrian to London - wouldn't want to be a cyclist though

 

[mattie]

The best thing this country could do is build cycle lanes alongside all railway lines. Straight, flat, direct journeys between all major towns.

Doing it in the channel tunnel would be awesome.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Doing it in the channel tunnel would be awesome.

*wins award for Best Idea of 2007*

 

[roryer]

You can take your bike on Le Shuttle for £16 day return from Folkstone, or its only a tenner on Sea France.

 

[Fuchs66]

in cologne i was amazed at how many bike users there were

Used to live in Bonn so I know the area quite well, Germany, as is also the case in Holland and several other mainland European countries, has quite a good network of cycle paths so bikes are a viable means of transport.

:no one wearing a helmet

It tends to be a lot safer here, I never wear a helmet although I think maybe I should (they just look daft)

:no one dressed as if they#re mtb-king

because bikes are seen as a method of transport not a fashion accessory, although the wannabe Jan Ulrichs tend to go the whole hog with their kit.

:just people going about their business in their own clothes on nice big bikes
and having good provision for it and peds got out of the way where necessary

Like I said good bike paths so less chance of conflict between bikes, cars and pedestrians

 

[Structaural]

should be legal for bikes. Discuss.

I think bikes should get a 5-10 second head start on the lights - they have a similar system on some lights in Holland. I think turning left should be legal as long as pedestrians are protected. And pedestrians come first in all planning.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

I think bikes should get a 5-10 second head start on the lights - they have a similar system on some lights in Holland.

I like the sound of that. All it would take would be an extra light with a bike on it that could give cyclists a head start at some junctions. That would be a good idea.

 

[Crispy]

I like the sound of that. All it would take would be an extra light with a bike on it that could give cyclists a head start at some junctions. That would be a good idea.

Yep, with this 100%. Doesn't have to be everywhere - rollout could stat just with the most dangerous junctions.

 

[gentlegreen]

Hopefully drivers would take more note of it than the advance boxes ...

 

[citydreams]

Guerilla cycle lane painting anyone?

The city is reacting by cleaning up the paint, even when it is in areas that are due to get bike lanes anyway. Despite being behind schedule and out of cash, the city is paying $1973.74 to clean each section of road.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/guerrilla_bike.php

Though I'm sure it would be worth a go in some places...
http://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/display/106015/index.php

 

[Structaural]

Turning left at a junction is still pretty difficult here in Holland (like turning right in England), there's no bike friendly work-around. You either cross the junction and then wait for the lights to change or take your life in your own hands.
Though there's plenty of precedent for sitting in the left lane blocking the cars at the lights so you get first dibs on turning left. This doesn't always work but bikes come first here in almost all cases. If someone hits a bike with a car the car driver almost without fail will be blamed, even if it was the cyclists fault. It certainly calms the city, except for the fucking taxi drivers who have been responsible for all the bike accidents I've seen (2).
Another good thing: bikes have total priority on roundabouts - cars have to stop and let the bikes cycle anti-clockwise round the 'bout', I found this really strange at first, I didn't trust the drivers.
London needs cycle lanes all over.

 

[beeboo]

I must admit when cycling I tend to go at pelicans if I can clearly see the pedestrians have finished crossing and there is no one else around.

You have a much clearer view than in the car IMHO.

Me too - firstly you're generally travelling more slowly and with better visability than a car, so have got more time to make a judgement that there definitely isn't a ped around who is going to cut a dash for it at the last minute.

Secondly, stopping and starting is probably when you're most at risk as a cyclist, so it is helpful to keep going if you can.

If I do it, it is slowly, and a good distance from the kerb just in case someone steps out.

I think it is perfectly possible for a cyclist to go through the occasional red light without endangering anyone. However, I don't think there is any point legislating for it, I think it's probably better to concentrate on *sensible* enforcement of the existing rules.

 

[Structaural]

Everyone jumps red lights in Holland, but it is illegal (25 euro fine), also if you do it by foot (jaywalking).

 

[roryer]

I think that's the idea of the cycle advance stop line (box), unfortuneatly many motorists seem to view it as voluntary.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

....unfortuneatly many motorists seem to view it as voluntary.

The point is lost on the majority of drivers I think. Loads of people have said to me that they don't understand why the slowest road user gets to be at the front of the traffic.....

 

[christonabike]

Thick twats, it's not a Grand Prix

 

[fredfelt]

There was a poor chap when riding his bike got crushed and killed under a bin lorry around these parts not so long ago.

It seemed he stoped at a red light and was planning to go straight on. The lorry waiting beside him turned left and draged him under the wheels. This particualr junction is normally very quite and one could argue that if he jumped this light he would still be alive.

Generally, cyclists should stop at red lights.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

It seemed he stoped at a red light and was planning to go straight on. The lorry waiting beside him turned left and draged him under the wheels. This particualr junction is normally very quite and one could argue that if he jumped this light he would still be alive.

One could also argue that pulling up on the inside of a large vehicle when you can't see it's indicators is a stupid thing to do....

 

[fredfelt]

The point is lost on the majority of drivers I think. Loads of people have said to me that they don't understand why the slowest road user gets to be at the front of the traffic.....

1. You avoid traffic fumes from waiting cars in front
2. It gives you a save opportunity to pull away. It stops cars turning left in front of you and makes it a lot safer for the cyclist
3. You get space on the road. Cars often pull to the side of you, rather than waiting behind.
4. Often cars overtake then almost immediatley stop in front of you. As a cyclist if you are in the front at the lights this happens much less often, your path is not blocked.

 

[fredfelt]

One could also argue that pulling up on the inside of a large vehicle when you can't see it's indicators is a stupid thing to do....

Agree, it is.

 

[kyser_soze]

Not being funny about this (and bearing in mind the accident on Brixton hill), but even when I'm driving a car or van I'm wary of driving up either side of a lorry unless I can see the road in front doesn't have any turns and/or is clear - I was taught to think about what the other driver can see when I learned to drive, and it's just as applicable to cyclists.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

1. You avoid traffic fumes from waiting cars in front
2. It gives you a save opportunity to pull away. It stops cars turning left in front of you and makes it a lot safer for the cyclist
3. You get space on the road. Cars often pull to the side of you, rather than waiting behind.
4. Often cars overtake then almost immediatley stop in front of you. As a cyclist if you are in the front at the lights this happens much less often, your path is not blocked.

Yes - I'm know this but a lot of people don't!

 

[Orang Utan]

Agree, it is.

I see this so many times and it makes my heart stop
Be behind a lorry rather than underneath it