God's teeth! Lambeth Libraries.

[Pickman's model]

A book is a book.

bollocks.

i recently read "dark ways to die" by peter saxon, shortly after reading "horror at fontenay" by alexandre dumas, and the quality of horror in the dumas was far superior to the quality of the peter saxon.

again, you try reading that "equus" play and then read "macbeth" and afterwards tell me a book is a book.

 

[IntoStella]

Mind you, a lot of library people will tend to take the decision that anything that can get people through the doors is worth trying.

Porn?

Librarians should surely be up to the task of identifying and encouraging their users to read books in which quality and accessibility are not mutually exclusive?

 

[IntoStella]

A book is a book.

I'm reminded of the Coronation Street episode in which Albert Tatlock is given a book for his birthday. He protests: "But I've already got a book."

And I liked the Da Vinci Code.

Evidently. I like the TV show House but any critic over the age of 6 could demolish it in five seconds. I'm not going to pretend that it's better than it is just because I don't want people to think I'm dumb.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Librarians should surely be up to the task of identifying and encouraging their users to read books in which quality and accessibility are not mutually exclusive?

We might well be, but that would involve the expenditure of time and the deployment of skills which Mr Coates would not find acceptable.

I'm reminded of the Coronation Street episode in which Albert Tatlock is given a book for his birthday. He protests: "But I've already got a book.

Arf.

 

[lang rabbie]

We might well be, but that would involve the expenditure of time and the deployment of skills which Mr Coates would not find acceptable.

There is an enormous amount of time being devoted to it - but IMHO the low expectations that too many Lambeth Library staff have of their readers are sadly patronising.

More generally, I do have to resist the temptation to hit myself over the head with a copy of Matthew Arnold's Culture and Anarchy every time "non-judgemental" stuff like this comes across my desk ...

A mission statement for reader development

Reader development uses a reader-centred definition of quality. This is the mission statement which explains what reader development aims to do:

The best book in the world is quite simply the one you like best and that is something you can discover for yourself, but we are here to help you find it.

We all know from our own reading that it is possible to have a deep and satisfying reading experience with a book that is generally considered quite light, which may well not be in print in ten years' time. It is also possible to have a poor reading experience with a book that has been accepted as brilliant. This doesn't necessarily mean that the critical evaluation of these books is misguided or that there is something wrong with you as a reader. All it means is that you and the book weren't right for each other at that time, something prevented the book from speaking to you.

Our reactions to a particular book are shaped as much by who we are as by what the book is. Every reader will have a different experience of the same book depending on their personal history, prejudices, and what they had for breakfast!

The quality of the writing is not the sole determining factor of the quality of the reading experience. Writers would love to have that degree of control! In practice, the reader will determine when to stop and start the book; how much effort to make; whether to concentrate fully or to be distracted. And even the reader is often not aware of what is conditioning their response.

Reader development starts with a respect for the individual reading experience. Each reader is the judge of their own best book. Reader development will always seek to encourage people to try something different or new to them - it's about stretching boundaries and opening up possibilities - but the final judgment on whether it was worth it is down to the individual reader.

Branching Out - "the site for everyone working in reader development"

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yes, well, I amost admire the courage of people who put that stuff about in libraries because there's no shortage of people like myself who will treat it with the loud and withering contempt it deserves.

But the thing is, there's also no shortage of people who will play the populist card and accuse other librarians of elitism because it is helpfu lto their careers to do so.

Moreover, there is a genuine problem behind all this tat-speak, which is how we get people to use a public service in the age of the Customer. Personally I've never understood why people would want not to use a free service, but that may be precisely my problem...

 

[Mrs Magpie]

the history of publick libraries is firmly rooted in the autodidactick tradition. but how are you ever going to have an educated and informed publick if all they're served up is a pile of wankery and toss? if you wanted to undermine people's desire to read, there are few better ways you could do it than by restricting library holdings to crap books which will deter people from reading.

I don't have a degree, A levels, I don't have an ology, even. My earning power is pretty crappy. I pretty much left school at 15 and almost everything I know, I know from reading. I hope I have a level of discernment too. I think Libraries should stock something for everyone, from Catherine Cookson in large print editions, to learned stuff about particle physics. If Lambeth pitched their stock at what they think I'd like to read in terms of where I fit on a socio-economic oojamaflip I suspect I'd be very disappointed.

 

[Mr Retro]

We might well be, but that would involve the expenditure of time and the deployment of skills which Mr Coates would not find acceptable.

Hi Justin, it’s good to see you around again.

I think a great thread would be one where we could tell you a book we have enjoyed, and you, our resident librarian, could recommend something similar.

Amazon.com do something similar. When you look up a book they have a section which says "people who bought this book also bought X" but you are depending on your fellow man, who almost always disappoints.

But then again why you bother with the hassle?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Um, I think there are a couple of threads that fit that description in the books/TV etc forum....

 

[Mr Retro]

Um, I think there are a couple of threads that fit that description in the books/TV etc forum....

not by a qualified librarian though

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Ah, I get what you mean now....

 

[IntoStella]

.........something prevented the book from speaking to you.

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

[Orang Utan]

Being a qualified librarian doesn't make you more nor less qualified to recommend books than non-librarians.


BTW I am also a librarian, but not of books.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Being a qualified librarian doesn't make you more nor less qualified to recommend books than non-librarians.

Ahh, in certain senses and situations it may. Or ought to.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Knowing a lot about books is likely to make you more qualified to recommend books, assuming you also have the nous to make connections between them and pick up on what it is that the person you are recommending to is after. I'd say librarians would have a fair chance of knowing more about about books than average. Working in a bookshop would also probably help.

 

[Orang Utan]

I didn't really say what I meant - I was referring to the suggestion that a thread with librarians' recommendations would be a good idea. As Mrs M stated, there are very many well-read people on this board who are in fact better qualified to recommend books than many librarians (not that I would include Justin here!). I have never worked in a public library before but I have visited many and not all librarians are particularly well read - quite a few are just doing the job - this is also true in bookshops - I used to work for Waterstones and, although there were many knowledgeable helpful staff, there were an equal amount of indifferent and ignorant staff. I was of course the former )) - it's the best job in the world ever to recommend books to people and have them come back later and ask specifically for you - pity the money is lousy.

 

[IntoStella]

Being a qualified librarian doesn't make you more nor less qualified to recommend books than non-librarians.


BTW I am also a librarian, but not of books.

How is the job at the porn library going?

Eww, imagine what state the books would come back in.

 

[IntoStella]

Knowing a lot about books is likely to make you more qualified to recommend books, assuming you also have the nous to make connections between them and pick up on what it is that the person you are recommending to is after. I'd say librarians would have a fair chance of knowing more about about books than average. Working in a bookshop would also probably help.

Knowing about books as distinct from having read them?

 

[Orang Utan]

How is the job at the porn library going?

That's not far from what I do according to the Daily Mail!

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Knowing about books as distinct from having read them?

Not as distinct from having read them, but you can't read everything.

 

[IntoStella]

Not as distinct from having read them, but you can't read everything.

Indeed you can't, but I think a lot of authors are wrongly and unfairly pigeonholed because people want a quick, safe, consumer fix of the "If you liked... you'll also like ... " variety.

I would hope, in an ideal world, that librarians would be able to provide a more intelligent, human and in-depth analysis than Amazon.

In an ideal world, I would expect them to be voracious readers who were filled with an urge to impart their enthusiasm and insights to others. But then Lambeth is not an ideal world.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Well yes, I'd rather have a real person who knows a lot about books and also knows about people is better than a statistical tool which doesn't really know about either. You can say to a person "you know, I just read Book1, I liked the way it did X but I didn't really like Y, I'm looking for something with a bit more X, I'm also quite fond of Author2, particularly Book3 but I hated Book4" and so on and the person will be able to put this together, make sense of it and work out a direction.

I do like Amazon's recommendations though, particularly trying to work out why it's come up with what it has. I'm sure, for instance, that it's recommended both coffee-table books about deconstructionism and photography books about women in PVC purely because I told it I have a Mac.

 

[IntoStella]

I do like Amazon's recommendations though, particularly trying to work out why it's come up with what it has. I'm sure, for instance, that it's recommended both coffee-table books about deconstructionism and photography books about women in PVC purely because I told it I have a Mac.

Maybe it is more insightful than I thought.

 

[flameacademy]

It's always been a bugbear of mine that there's no easy way to discern what to read next. The weekend newspaper book sections (and the London Review of Books) always seem depressingly pretentious and obsessed with showing off rather than helping me to gain an opinion of the latest books.

I'm dead chuffed that Amazon offers an alternative with reader reviews - that and the hand-written notes you get attached to books in Books ETC.....

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I'm ashamed to admit I'm quite scared of novels, unless they are firmly low to middle-brow, but I'm right at home with text-books. Perhaps it's just because I don't have a formal education and I'm trying to catch up.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's always been a bugbear of mine that there's no easy way to discern what to read next. The weekend newspaper book sections (and the London Review of Books) always seem depressingly pretentious and obsessed with showing off rather than helping me to gain an opinion of the latest books.

Oooh, that's a little unfair to the LRB. In the first place, they're not necesarily reviewing the "latest" books. In the second, it's true they do tend to assume an educated and even academic audience, but that's neither "pretentious" nor "showing off" - it's an audience which exists and to which they cater.

 

[IntoStella]

Oooh, that's a little unfair to the LRB.

I thought you might say that.

 

[comstock]

I'm ashamed to admit I'm quite scared of novels, unless they are firmly low to middle-brow, but I'm right at home with text-books. Perhaps it's just because I don't have a formal education and I'm trying to catch up.

That is quite surprising to me . You always come across (to the extent anyone can 'come across' on t'internet) as well educated and knowledgeable.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

No I left school young and left home young and don't have any qualifications to speak of. I will read most things though, even cornflake packets! I've got loads of books, mostly second-hand text books. I should have said further education rather than formal, I did go to school but it was pretty patchy because of long time in hospitals and living with relatives quite a lot, although I passed the 11-plus.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Actually, I think novels are... well, not over-rated, but over-concentrated-on. The idea that fiction = novel is very pervasive. Novel-reading is a habit rather than the only proper way to read.

I used to read several novels a week when I was younger, because I not only had the time but also nothing better to do with it. Nowadays I'm terrible, I buy the things, get about halfway through and then forget about them, and when I remember again I find that I've forgotten what happened, so I need to read the first bit again, but it's still vaguely familiar, so reading the first bit is not nearly as fun as it was originally and I end up not bothering.... I'll read something fluffy like a Harry Potter in an evening but they don't, with the greatest of respect for Ms Rowling, take a lot of concentration. I get about four pages a minute.