Global Warming Info Censored by Bush Admin.

[laptop]

Anyway, back on topic:

Why did the Bush Administration believe that some spotty youth who lies on their CV/resumé should be entrusted with deciding what senior scientists may and may not report about their findings?

 

[kage]

All the boys call me "Doctor"

I'm sure they do... unfortunately that game is generally played between curious children.


sicko

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

I think RY should get a hearing test. I suspect they are calling for a doctor.

"Come along, now Mr. Yam. We've got a nice, quiet, soft-walled place for you to stay. You'll be safe from the nasty evil hippies there..."

 

[teqniq]

My thanks to all the people who've had to put up with truly unpleasant insults from Dr. Yam

Some of your ripostes are truly class

*note to self* Dr. Yam is to to be put on my 'not to be taken seriously list'.

As for the topic title; this would not suprise me in the slightest......

 

[rich!]

I have read that article, and much else by Mr. Lovins (note correct spelling of his name),

I'm at home now - got copy (UK1EdPelican1977) - accept name correction - tip'o'the'hat't'ye.

as well as met the man.

How is he in person?

He has done some good work. So what is your point?

I read the book - 220 pages setting out a set of methods for reducing US energy consumption, and hence dependence on Dodgy Foreign States, massively without impacting lifestyle.

subtitle: "Towards a durable peace".

It seems clear that the approach to the problem he postulates has not really been tried in the US, which is *a crying shame*, 'cos if it had, you could have been a country *self-sufficient in energy* 30 years ago.

I regard this as a catastrophic failing of the US experiment.

(goes off to Burroughs for consolation)

 

[rogue yam]

How is he in person?

Very confident and articulate, and frighteningly clever, but also quite laid-back and funny as anything. I attended a conference in Aspen, CO his Rocky Mountain Institute put together on energy efficient end-use technologies back in about 1991 or so. I also toured the RMI facilities in nearby Snowmass, CO. Beautiful setting up there. He and his wife, Hunter, really figured out a pretty good gig with all of this stuff. (Also nearby is Woody Creek, CO. After the conference was done one evening I went over to the Woody Creek Tavern, got a drink, and met its most-celebrated barfly, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson. But that's a different story.)

I read the book - 220 pages setting out a set of methods for reducing US energy consumption, and hence dependence on Dodgy Foreign States, massively without impacting lifestyle.

subtitle: "Towards a durable peace".

It seems clear that the approach to the problem he postulates has not really been tried in the US, which is *a crying shame*, 'cos if it had, you could have been a country *self-sufficient in energy* 30 years ago.

I regard this as a catastrophic failing of the US experiment.

Lovins was notoriously over-optimistic regarding the magnitude of the benefits available from his ideas, particularly at first. By the 1990s he had come back down to earth a bit and was better respected by the utilities industries, building trades groups, appliance manufacturers, etc. His basic ideas were mostly quite sound, of course, and much of what he and others were promoting starting in the 1970s are now standard practices in the US and elsewhere. It is just that the energy savings were not so transforming as he anticipated. Also Americans (and others) are demanding far higher energy end-use services than most anyone projected back then. There is much work being done by the United States government at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, other government and university labs, etc. that traces its philosophical pedigree back to Amory Lovins' ground-breaking work. He, and RMI, even had a big part in the development of the hybrid automobile concept which has now become a fairly widespread reality. But still, oil is king. I think this was/is unavoidable.

Your idea that this represents some sort of failure of vision, that somehow great environmental and economic benefits were foolishly left on the table, strikes me as naive and arrogant. Particularly as you attribute this failing exclusively to America. If you lot are so clever and righteous, where is your Ecotopia?

 

[tangentlama]

the Red Tides in the Gulf of Mexico and southwest coast of Florida are so frequent now, that they're a real danger to marine and estuary wildlife as well as humans. In USA, the red tides are explained in the news as being brought on by warm water and sunlight. The newspaper reports rarely, if ever, mention raw sewage. The situation is a critical mass, but the cause is masked from published news reports.

something which used to once be a rare phenomenon now occurs every year.

“The costs of nutrient pollution and red tides to wildlife, human health, and Florida’s economy are too high to ignore,” said Pope. “The beaches here in Sarasota have been especially vulnerable to red tide outbreaks in recent years. It’s time we took proactive steps to make sure the waters off this shore and all along Florida’s coasts are free from nutrient pollution and red tides.”
Conservation Groups Sends Letter to President Bush Asking his Administration to Address Harmful Nutrient Pollution

but a closer look at the situation reveals lots of action groups and scientists in the USA effectively getting nowhere with the US Administration over tackling the causes of the pollution on land.

in China, Red Tides are increasing too, but there, raw sewage is blamed for the increase and openly mentioned in news reports

Red Tide is largely thought to be what happened when the rivers turned red as blood in the Bible. i'm surprised no-one's used that angle to pressurise those responsible.

 

[Streathamite]

I'm curious as to what Rogue Yam does for a living. Whatta you do Rogue Yam???

And, Spring, I'd guess that RY doesn't have a sufficient grasp of any subject to carry on a civil discussion. period. I have never seen a more stupid gringo in my entire life.

GOTTA be a student.
fratboy State U stoodent, mebbe post-grad, with loaded kill-the-poor parents. speaking as an employer, and a headhunter, you'd have to be really, REALLY daft - or desperate - to hire that, or even to push the resume on a client.
E2A; with caveat, if cyberpersona is a reliable guide. sometimes is, sometimes not.

 

[Ae589]

I think it's a major failure of the scientific establishment that the world's best scientists have such vastly different opinions about such an important subject

Those who do not believe in human-caused global warming have a valid point, they are looking for absolute proof before mandating expensive action. There is no conclusive proof, thats why there is such a diffenrece of opinion.

For me it comes down to:
If you are willing to bet the lives of your children for your comfort, then side with those who disbelieve global warming. If you are willing to waste billions struggling to adapt our lives in what could be a pointless exercise, side with those who believe it.

 

[spring-peeper]

GOTTA be a student.
fratboy State U stoodent, mebbe post-grad, with loaded kill-the-poor parents. speaking as an employer, and a headhunter, you'd have to be really, REALLY daft - or desperate - to hire that, or even to push the resume on a client.
E2A; with caveat, if cyberpersona is a reliable guide. sometimes is, sometimes not.

No, I'm betting middle age American, long standing member of a different board where he probably discusses such things as free market system and middle eastern affairs. Also, well versed in debating etiquette and probably walks in protest marches.

 

[spring-peeper]

the Red Tides in the Gulf of Mexico and southwest coast of Florida are so frequent now, that they're a real danger to marine and estuary wildlife as well as humans. In USA, the red tides are explained in the news as being brought on by warm water and sunlight. The newspaper reports rarely, if ever, mention raw sewage. The situation is a critical mass, but the cause is masked from published news reports.

something which used to once be a rare phenomenon now occurs every year.



but a closer look at the situation reveals lots of action groups and scientists in the USA effectively getting nowhere with the US Administration over tackling the causes of the pollution on land.

in China, Red Tides are increasing too, but there, raw sewage is blamed for the increase and openly mentioned in news reports

Red Tide is largely thought to be what happened when the rivers turned red as blood in the Bible. i'm surprised no-one's used that angle to pressurise those responsible.

Your article is from the Sierra Club and was from 2004 - any updates on the article.

The US has been very active in trying to clean up the environment. A quick google shows that they do prosecute and fine offends. They have also entered into international treaties. They do have very strict quidelines. epa website

I think that the main cause of this red tide is coming from countries that have lower environmental standards. Places where water from sewage and industries are pumped untreated into the rivers, lakes and oceans. Places where multi-national companies prefer to settle. Places where big business do not have to waste money paying decent wages and waste treatment.

 

[spring-peeper]

Anyway, back on topic:

Why did the Bush Administration believe that some spotty youth who lies on their CV/resumé should be entrusted with deciding what senior scientists may and may not report about their findings?

Wasn't he forced to resign recently?

It is not NASA’s place, nor should it be to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator... This is more than a science issue, it is a religious issue. And I would hate to think that young people would only be getting one-half of this debate from NASA. That would mean we had failed to properly educate the very people who rely on us for factual information the most.

Apparently this is not a good thing for the NASA press officier to say.

 

[Streathamite]

No, I'm betting middle age American, long standing member of a different board where he probably discusses such things as free market system and middle eastern affairs. Also, well versed in debating etiquette and probably walks in protest marches.

so why the teenage tourettes syndrome here and associated 'you are evil hippie' outbursts'?

 

[spring-peeper]

so why the teenage tourettes syndrome here and associated 'you are evil hippie' outbursts'?

trolling - and for some reason "hippy" seems to be an insult on some us boards.

also, he is from california - enuff said