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Global Warming Info Censored by Bush Admin.

even if there is no real scientific concensus on the causes and nature of clmate change the mesures they sudjest are very sensible and would be benificial to the enviroment to matter what

just because you can't prove 100% that carbon immistions are causing the earth to warm does not mean you shouldn't move to alternate fuel sources.

plus if the are causing the earth to warm you will be fairly fucked if you don't switch
 
Crispy said:
Anyway, back on topic. Why does the Bush administration feel the need to alter the words of scientists? Can it not argue the case itself, or does it have to resort to muffling voices it doesn't like?
The climate change debate is a political debate. The President has a position and he expects those who work for him not to pusue some other political agenda. There are plenty of leftists in America and elsewhere promoting socialism via "global warming" hysteria. It is reasonable, and in keeping with the Constitution, that the President holds and seeks to advance a different viewpoint. If the socialists want the executive branch of the United States government to promote socialism, then they need to elect a socialist President. Until then, they will have to be satisfied with the universities, the MSM, the enviro groups, the UN, the...
 
rogue yam said:
The climate change debate is a political debate. The President has a position and he expects those who work for him not to pusue some other political agenda. There are plenty of leftists in America and elsewhere promoting socialism via "global warming" hysteria. It is reasonable, and in keeping with the Constitution, that the President holds and seeks to advance a different viewpoint. If the socialists want the executive branch of the United States government to promote socialism, then they need to elect a socialist President. Until then, they will have to be satisfied with the universities, the MSM, the enviro groups, the UN, the...

Socialists have nothing to do with this. You are simply trying to slander and stiffle the people who have legitimate scientific information to pass to a public who desparately needs to understand it if they have any hope of retaining a decent standard of living. We can make changes that preserve the environment now that will be relatively easy. Or, we can do it later when it will be much more detrimental to living standards. All of this can be done using market solutions. That is what the Chinese are pursuing--who btw, are kicking our ass economically. Bush and company are doing everything they can to doom the average american to poverty.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
That is what the Chinese are pursuing--who btw, are kicking our ass economically. Bush and company are doing everything they can to doom the average american to poverty.
Have you been to China? I have. They are not kicking our ass in any way. China sucks. If you want freedom and prosperity, stay here. We have high productivity, high growth (compared to all other advanced industrial countries), low unemployment, low interest rates, low prices (again, compared to other advanced industrial countries), low taxes, strong equities markets, and lying, whining hippies. Seven out of eight isn't bad.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
We can make changes that preserve the environment now that will be relatively easy. Or, we can do it later when it will be much more detrimental to living standards. All of this can be done using market solutions.
So where is a listing of these changes you propose, with an analysis of the costs and benefits of each one? I have seen a lot of hippie/commie hand-waving on this subject, but when it comes to actual solutions there is deafening silence. Those technologies that pay for themselves (such as energy-efficient lightbulbs, etc.) sell themselves. The rest is just a stalking horse for collectivism.
 
rogue yam said:
So where is a listing of these changes you propose, with an analysis of the costs and benefits of each one? I have seen a lot of hippie/commie hand-waving on this subject, but when it comes to actual solutions there is deafening silence. Those technologies that pay for themselves (such as energy-efficient lightbulbs, etc.) sell themselves. The rest is just a stalking horse for collectivism.
Amory Levins, Soft Energy Paths.

Been available for about 30 years.
 
rogue yam said:
So where is a listing of these changes you propose, with an analysis of the costs and benefits of each one? I have seen a lot of hippie/commie hand-waving on this subject, but when it comes to actual solutions there is deafening silence. Those technologies that pay for themselves (such as energy-efficient lightbulbs, etc.) sell themselves. The rest is just a stalking horse for collectivism.

ENERGY STAR Qualified Products

Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings

Procurement of Environmentally-Sound and Energy-Efficient Products and Services

Conservation Products
 
rich! said:
Amory Levins, Soft Energy Paths.

Been available for about 30 years.
I have read that article, and much else by Mr. Lovins (note correct spelling of his name), as well as met the man. He has done some good work. So what is your point?
 
rogue yam said:
It's all about socialism, toots. That's why we call y'all "watermelons"; green on the outside, red on the inside.

Gee, when I get a fruity perjorative thrown at me it is usually "apple." :rolleyes:
 
laptop said:
Sigh.

A market (<- word Freepers like in theory) in carbon credits works with enforceable limits.
Hey moron! How exactly do you propose to determine how many carbon credits there should be and how they will be initially allocated? "Sigh", indeed!
 
rogue yam said:
Have you been to China? I have. They are not kicking our ass in any way. China sucks. If you want freedom and prosperity, stay here. We have high productivity, high growth (compared to all other advanced industrial countries), low unemployment, low interest rates, low prices (again, compared to other advanced industrial countries), low taxes, strong equities markets, and lying, whining hippies. Seven out of eight isn't bad.

Turn over any random product in the store. It will say "Made in China" on the bottom. Our manufacturing base continues to decline.
 
Lock&Light said:
If someone was to suggest that rogue yam should be reprimanded, would there be any objections?

I'm pretty sure that the use of the word "retard" is serverely frowned upon, if not outright banned.

The problem is that this is world politics, and I was under the impression that reports of abuse will be ignored. (could be wrong on this one, but I doubt it).

Report it and find out.
 
Lock&Light said:
If someone was to suggest that rogue yam should be reprimanded, would there be any objections?
Only that chronic stupidity isn't in the FAQs, nor is delusion and/or fanaticisim.

For the rather nasty personal attack earlier in this thread a reprimand wouldn't be excessive. But reporting that post alone is a bit too modbothering imo.
 
Lock&Light said:
If someone was to suggest that rogue yam should be reprimanded, would there be any objections?
Ooooh! "Reprimanded" on u75! Oh, the horror! Oh, the shame!

Thanks for the laugh, punk.
 
rogue yam said:
So where is a listing of these changes you propose, with an analysis of the costs and benefits of each one? I have seen a lot of hippie/commie hand-waving on this subject, but when it comes to actual solutions there is deafening silence. Those technologies that pay for themselves (such as energy-efficient lightbulbs, etc.) sell themselves. The rest is just a stalking horse for collectivism.

Do your own homework, freepboy.
 
What I find amusing is that freepers and neo-cons always believe that they are being "oppressed" in some way by the "MSM", and that "liberals" are planning to take over America by stealth in some kind of dreadful plot.

Just like any other kind of extremist they need an enemy, otherwise their ideology doesn't make any sense.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Turn over any random product in the store. It will say "Made in China" on the bottom. Our manufacturing base continues to decline.
So what? I get to enjoy cheap goods and live in freedom. Sounds like win-win to me!
 
DarthSydodyas said:
Could be worse. pbmen could return.......

In all honesty, I actually think PBman is a decent guy (albeit with some really weird ideas about his government), unlike this character.
 
rich! said:
Amory Levins, Soft Energy Paths.

Been available for about 30 years.

Small is Beautiful, E. Schumacher. It is a classic in college econ classes.

He was president of the National Coal Board in the UK. He was an associate of J.M. Keynes and J.K. Galbraith.
 
frogwoman said:
In all honesty, I actually think PBman is a decent guy (albeit with some really weird ideas about his government), unlike this character.

You could at least have a civil discussion with him. Didn't agree with his politics one bit.
 
spring-peeper said:
I gave him a list of sites - some even from the US government. He didn't know what to do with them :rolleyes:

He probably doesn't have a clue about things like on-demand water heaters, appliance timers, and LED lighting either.
 
frogwoman said:
In all honesty, I actually think PBman is a decent guy (albeit with some really weird ideas about his government), unlike this character.

I agree.

Problem with rogue yam, is that to-day he came onto the boards and the first thing he does is to start verbally abusing YW.

It's almost as if the only reason for his logging on today is to abuse. No discussion, no respect for others opinions - just childish name calling.
 
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