Global Totalitarian Bullying

[two sheds]

Well then why are people saying that Cuba has one of the best medical systems in the world?

Yep, incredible isn't it - you wonder why we aren't trying to learn from them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yep, incredible isn't it - you wonder why we aren't trying to learn from them.

Can we also learn something about the control of the spread of AIDS, via the imprisoning and other harassment of homosexuals, a la Cuba?

 

[DownwardDog]

The shortages affecting many medicines, which are not produced in Cuba, complicate the immediate and complete implementation of the procedures of treatment of breast cancer, leukaemia, cardiovascular or kidney diseases, and HIV for example."

Why don't they buy this stuff from non-US companies?

 

[two sheds]

Can we also learn something about the control of the spread of AIDS, via the imprisoning and other harassment of homosexuals, a la Cuba?

I didn't say it was a perfect society. Just that it didn't deserve the totalitarian bullying that the US has handed out.

 

[newharper]

Friday, October 26
EX-COMM receives a letter from Khrushchev stating that the Soviets would remove their missiles if President Kennedy publicly guarantees the U.S. will not invade Cuba.


http://www.atomicarchive.com/Reports/Cuba/timeline.shtml

You are aware, I presume, of the view, that the Russians, as chess players, won that round.

45 years on, no invasion.

U.S. Policy, still in flux, though the rest of the world?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You are aware, I presume, of the view, that the Russians, as chess players, won that round.

45 years on, no invasion.

U.S. Policy, still in flux, though the rest of the world?

Ok, but the Russians got checkmated in the end.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I didn't say it was a perfect society. Just that it didn't deserve the totalitarian bullying that the US has handed out.

People should make up their minds. When the US pours into a country with its economy, corporations etc, everyone yells 'economic imperialism', and gets all worried about the chip shops on the high street.

But when the US withdraws from a place, everyone yells 'totalitarian bullying'.

You can't suck and blow at the same time, you know.

 

[JoePolitix]

Why don't they buy this stuff from non-US companies?

Because under US law ("The Helms-Berton Act") foreign companies that do buisness with Cuba are prevented from doing buisness in the US. This is the reason why the entire world opposes the blockade (except the US, "Israel", "Palau" and the "Marshall Islands").

 

[JoePolitix]

Can we also learn something about the control of the spread of AIDS, via the imprisoning and other harassment of homosexuals, a la Cuba?

Yawn. Couldn't you show some initiative and make up some new lies up about Cuba?

 

[two sheds]

But when the US withdraws from a place, everyone yells 'totalitarian bullying'.

You call what the US has done to Cuba as merely 'withdrawing from a place'? Nope, I'm afraid you're the one who's been swallowing the propaganda.

Your e-mail does hit the heart of it, though - their activities against Cuba sends other countries the message as to what will happen to them if they ask the US to 'withdraw from their place'. It's their country Johnny, surely they have a right to run the place how they want (as long as they don't kill large amounts of the population like they did in all those South American dictatorships that the USA supported so wholeheartedly).

As I understand it, the Cubans kicked the US out because large sections of the economy were being run by US gangsters. That was who they particularly wanted to 'withdraw from the place'.

The blockade wasn't just for nuclear materials as you suggested in an early post, it is for just about everything including medical supplies and other essentials.

The US also supports terrorists as long as Cuba is the target. Surely you don't back them up on that, too.

 

[nino_savatte]

People should make up their minds. When the US pours into a country with its economy, corporations etc, everyone yells 'economic imperialism', and gets all worried about the chip shops on the high street.

But when the US withdraws from a place, everyone yells 'totalitarian bullying'.

You can't suck and blow at the same time, you know.

Another intellectually weak defence of US economic and foreign policy. Your thesis doesn't stand up to scrutiny, particularly in the case of Liberia, where the US dumped loads of cheap rice onto the country's market, undercutting the price of domestic rice and causing the country's economy and government to collapse. And who benefitted from this? Not the Liberians, son.

Then there's Haiti...and many other countries besides.

 

[nino_savatte]

Can we also learn something about the control of the spread of AIDS, via the imprisoning and other harassment of homosexuals, a la Cuba?

What a curious thing to say. Where did this come from or is this another opportunity for you to engage in another trademark anti-Cuba rant?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The US was prepared to invade Cuba, if the missile carrying Russian ships hadn't turned back before the blockade point.

There was a missile that could carry Russian ships?

Cool!

 

[nino_savatte]

Because under US law ("The Helms-Berton Act") foreign companies that do buisness with Cuba are prevented from doing buisness in the US. This is the reason why the entire world opposes the blockade (except the US, "Israel", "Palau" and the "Marshall Islands").

The US only respects its own laws while insisting that other countries adhere to International Law, which it refuses to acknowledge itself. This continued position of hypocrisy undermines all their noble-sounding rhetoric.

 

[iROBOT]

The fact that Castro was prepared to see the world plunged into a nuclear war should his island be invaded, shows that the US was correct in blockading the island to ensure that nukes were never stationed there.

What an idiotic statement...what about the American nukes in Turkey aimed at the soviet union?

Castro was a minor player in the Cold war and without the USSRs help Cuba would now be the gambling and prostitution annex of rich American men.

Fool

 

[DownwardDog]

Cuba would now be the gambling and prostitution annex of rich American men.

Fool

It's already got rampant prostitution, only Rio has come close in terms of availability in my experience. I expect the gambling will arrive before too long.

 

[iROBOT]

It's already got rampant prostitution, only Rio has come close in terms of availability in my experience. I expect the gambling will arrive before too long.

Indeed...socialism's lost that I do not deny.

But at least they've got a world class health and education system...that's down to Castro and Cuba will benefit in the long run.

 

[JoePolitix]

Indeed...socialism's lost that I do not deny.

It might be, but not necessarily.

Right now Cuba's got a lot of friends in Latin America after the recent election of leftwing governments in Venezuela, Bolivia, Niceragua, Ecuador and so on.

Hopefully Cuba will democratise without falling into the neo-liberal death trap and returning to being a colony of the US empire. It will face huge pressures though:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/30/after.castro/index.html

 

[iROBOT]

It might be, but not necessarily.

Right now Cuba's got a lot of friends in Latin America after the recent election of leftwing governments in Venezuela, Bolivia, Niceragua, Ecuador and so on.

Hopefully Cuba will democratise without falling into the neo-liberal death trap and returning to being a colony of the US empire. It will face huge pressures though:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/30/after.castro/index.html

Thanks for the article..v.interesting.

Just need to clarify my position. I believe in socialist ideals, the methods are have failed, but the goals of Socialism are as relevant today as they were one hundred years ago.

Peace

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Because under US law ("The Helms-Berton Act") foreign companies that do buisness with Cuba are prevented from doing buisness in the US. This is the reason why the entire world opposes the blockade (except the US, "Israel", "Palau" and the "Marshall Islands").

The US is a sovereign country. They can pass things like the Helms Berton act, and then it's up to companies in other countries to decide how much they want to trade with the US.

You'll recall that similar types of action were taken against South Africa; they were thrown out of the Commonwealth, for example.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yawn. Couldn't you show some initiative and make up some new lies up about Cuba?

I don't need to lie; the truth, such as the truth about Cuban treatment of gays, is bad enough.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You call what the US has done to Cuba as merely 'withdrawing from a place'? Nope, I'm afraid you're the one who's been swallowing the propaganda.

Your e-mail does hit the heart of it, though - their activities against Cuba sends other countries the message as to what will happen to them if they ask the US to 'withdraw from their place'. It's their country Johnny, surely they have a right to run the place how they want (as long as they don't kill large amounts of the population like they did in all those South American dictatorships that the USA supported so wholeheartedly). .

As mentioned in my other post, if countries have a right to do as they want, why was the economic interference with South Africa considered to be an okay thing to do?

As for 'asking the US to withdraw', they had a revolution there, then stole the assets of american companies that had been operating there. I think the word used is 'nationalized'. Had they paid for the stolen assets, my view might be different.

Most people have a negative view of thieves.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

As I understand it, the Cubans kicked the US out because large sections of the economy were being run by US gangsters. That was who they particularly wanted to 'withdraw from the place'.

You should do some more reading, and not get so much history from Carmen Miranda movies. The mafia had hotels and casinos there, and controlled the 'vice', gambling, prostitution, just as they did in the US and elsewhere. However, there were many other legitimate US businsesses there. Everyone lost their assets, not just the mafia.

Also, considering that many young cuban girls now work as prostitutes selling themselves to foreign tourists, it looks as if the cuban people just traded one pimp for another.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What a curious thing to say. Where did this come from or is this another opportunity for you to engage in another trademark anti-Cuba rant?

Do you ever actually say anything, or do you just want to show up and bitch at me, any time I post anywhere. I wonder where I put that number for Orkin Pest Control?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

There was a missile that could carry Russian ships?

Cool!

It's always a pleasant spectacle when you exercise your intellectual prowess in this way.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The US only respects its own laws while insisting that other countries adhere to International Law, which it refuses to acknowledge itself. This continued position of hypocrisy undermines all their noble-sounding rhetoric.

Btw it's 'Helms Burton'. I shouldn't have taken his word on the spelling.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's already got rampant prostitution, only Rio has come close in terms of availability in my experience. I expect the gambling will arrive before too long.

All countenanced by the Cuban govt.

The People's Pimp.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Indeed...socialism's lost that I do not deny.

But at least they've got a world class health and education system...that's down to Castro and Cuba will benefit in the long run.

Maybe they should cut back just a fraction in those areas, and provide enough jobs so that all those girls don't have to prostitute themselves.

 

[iROBOT]

Maybe they should cut back just a fraction in those areas, and provide enough jobs so that all those girls don't have to prostitute themselves.

Prostitution exists everywhere...It's part of the human condition, as long as its servicing the local needs it's understandable, but when it's been pumped up by foreigners (as in pre Castro Cuba) it's wrong.

And if the USA removed the blockade maybe these women would have a chance of a better life????


Edited to remove profanities....

 

[nino_savatte]

Do you ever actually say anything, or do you just want to show up and bitch at me, any time I post anywhere. I wonder where I put that number for Orkin Pest Control?

You're paranoid, Johnny. I didn't come to this thread because of you, so don't flatter yourself.

You're projecting again, you never have anything to say other than the trademark cheap shot. You can't make a proper contribution without posting some dodgy link, an image or some lyrics.

For someone who claims to be a Canadian, you spend most of your time apologising for the US. How odd, I don't think my Canadian cousins have ever engaged in such displays of misplaced love for another country.

Now where's the number for Maudsley Hospital? One of their inmates is missing.