Glastonbury Hypocrisy + Make Poverty History

[editor]

make poverty money?

Phew! Thank goodness the resident pedant's in the house to point out a one letter typo!

 

[J77]

To be honest, I reckon most people were there for the beer, the bands, or whatever, but there is an element of Glasto that might open up da kiDz minds a bit.

Yeah - the charity thing's always been there but I, for one, haven't noticed it - surely, people don't go because it's 'for a good cause'.

it is for me....got any spare change

No spare change but 120 quid's maybe 4-5 nights out drinking - now that paying is the only way, I'd find the cash or plastic.

Seeing the OP point though - the festival is getting more 'commercial' that maybe induces some hypocrisy - but the majority of people aren't being hypocritical just because they're enjoying themselves

It's over - it was good - roll on 2007.

(Also, I think things change as you get older - would probably seem just as fucking mental now as it was in 92 if I was still 15.)

 

[dolly's gal]

Is there any evidence to suggest in this case that thats been done? That the majority of people why did go home thinking "well, I've done my bit so I don't need to do anymore" would have otherwise donated? Because I don't reckon they would have done. But I guess its going to be very difficult to assert that either way.

very much agree with you AS. tho it won't be *that* difficult to assert either way. charity campaigns do have deliverables against which "success" can be measured.

 

[DaveCinzano]

To be honest, I reckon most people were there for the beer, the bands, or whatever, but there is an element of Glasto that might open up da kiDz minds a bit.

true enough... i'm not against glastonbury, or music festivals, or festivals in general - i'm all for them...

To judge the festival on its connection with MPM would be foolhardy: there's a ton of stuff going on and not all of it is about consumerism and hedonism.

well, i'm not judging glastonbury festival per se, more the way some people/organisations make bold claims for a connection; or coat-tail it; or try to profiteer off of a vague 'green' sensibility.

Glasto is what it is (the best music festival in the UK as far as I'm concerned), but it seems unfair to expect it to be all things to all people.

i don't expect it to be all things to all people; i just think a sense of perspective is needed. most of the people on here (including the people who went) seem perfectly aware of that need, but there are those in the world who do make unsupportable claims for how going to a commercial festival is a way of washing away the sins of an everyday consumerist life.

we're pretty much all trapped into this world of shiny chattels and wage slavery and social enclosure, so don't get me wrong, i'm not pointing fingers... such things can only be dealt with by massive, collective action. they can't be overcome by buying into it to offset our own consumption.

 

[kropotkin]

he speaks good.
Him ^^^

 

[DaveCinzano]

I'd like to say again that I don't necessarily disagree entirely with what you (or cheg) are saying, but I still hold that there are a hell of a lot of people who were there who would have contributed nothing if not for the price of their ticket. Surely if it gets someone to contribute for whatever reason, or at least think about the issue for a minute, its better than nothing at all (which is what a hell of a lot of people contribute).

the point isn't that not everyone who goes pays the full price, or that they 'think about the issue for a minute', it's that the claims made for any involvement of a commercial event with a message/issue need to be kept in perspective.

the festival is a great thing, fun, exciting, enjoyable etc... but at the end of it, the litter is picked up by a litter-picker, the stages are de-rigged by roadies, the cattle are moved back in by farm workers - and the punters go home, back to their jobs, their lives... it's a part of our life of consumption and service, not an alternative to it.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

he speaks good.
Him ^^^

Tis true, he's a sage and a good warrior!

 

[editor]

well, i'm not judging glastonbury festival per se, more the way some people/organisations make bold claims for a connection; or coat-tail it; or try to profiteer off of a vague 'green' sensibility.

Oh, I had my fair share of rants about that over the weekend.

Budweiser: "official beer of Glastonbury" my fucking arse.
And Apple even used the dance stage to launch one of their fucking products and filled the press tent with corporate tie in material , the fucking cunts.

I headed to the hippy fields. I'd rather listen to bollocks about Mother Earth healing waves than some swivel action daddy-o trying to be as one with da yoot/

 

[DaveCinzano]

And Apple even used the dance stage to launch one of their fucking products and filled the press tent with corporate tie in material , the fucking cunts.

i forgot to ask, did you have a cosy chat with lisarocket about the merits of 'i-pod "dj'ing"'?

 

[editor]

i forgot to ask, did you have a cosy chat with lisarocket about the merits of 'i-pod "dj'ing"'?

Couldn't get a word in edgeways, mate!

She turned up at the Cider Bus waving around an "anyone hear from urban75" placard, the nutter!

It was nice to see her there. Pictures soon.

 

[easy g]

No spare change but 120 quid's maybe 4-5 nights out drinking - now that paying is the only way, I'd find the cash or plastic.

where the fuck do you drink?! I'd want £120 to last me at least triple the nights you said....

ah yes...let's slap it on the credit card...let's be bigger slaves to the system

 

[easy g]

i forgot to ask, did you have a cosy chat with lisarocket about the merits of 'i-pod "dj'ing"'?

I wonder if she mentioned anything about Biff

 

[editor]

where the fuck do you drink?! I'd want £120 to last me at least triple the nights you said....

ah yes...let's slap it on the credit card...let's be bigger slaves to the system

Actually, unlike many festivals, you can drag in as many crateloads of ultra cheap lager/home brew as you like.

Whatever you may think of the event, the festival is fucking fantastic value - I've been there several times on the dole and had no problem surviving on a budget of next to zero.

I've never used a credit card at Glasto.

 

[easy g]

no ed...it was because j77 equated £120 to just 4 or 5 nights out drinking...which I found shocking...I guess because I drink little so 2 or 3 pints is enough/too much for me

and he mentioned paying for your ticket on plastic....not using it inside

it just seemed a bit flippant when £120 is a lot of money for some people (me included in my present financial predicament)

 

[hibee]

My name is hibee, and I'm a class traitor.

All those years working for my union and all those nights sitting in meetings of lefty sects went to waste. In the end I couldn't resist seeing some bands I'm really into and getting legless with some of the lads (I left the missus at home, she couldn't cope with the mud). I'm sorry, comrades [breaks down].

That £125 ticket paid for by putting in some OT shifts - bourgois decadence! The £150 spending money I took - well, less than I would have spent in Majorca, and I had £20 in my wallet when I left, butstill.

I'm quitting class politics and joining the lib dems.

 

[easy g]

Actually, unlike many festivals, you can drag in as many crateloads of ultra cheap lager

eeuurrghhh

quality not quantity surely

 

[moose]

If Glastonbury declared itself solely a charity event which raised money/awareness, then that would be hypocritical, but it doesn't. It's a 'festival of contemporary arts' which happens to use the opportunity of having a captive, mainly youngish audience to throw information at. If a few people learn something new and do something about it that has to be a good thing. Most of the musicians I saw from Africa seemed pretty chuffed that everyone knew about MPH.

 

[easy g]

My name is hibee, and I'm a class traitor.

All those years working for my union and all those nights sitting in meetings of lefty sects went to waste. In the end I couldn't resist seeing some bands I'm really into and getting legless with some of the lads (I left the missus at home, she couldn't cope with the mud). I'm sorry, comrades [breaks down].

That £125 ticket paid for by putting in some OT shifts - bourgois decadence! The £150 spending money I took - well, less than I would have spent in Majorca, and I had £20 in my wallet when I left, butstill.

I'm quitting class politics and joining the lib dems.

 

[nosos]

I'm sorry - not everyone indulges in excess - boll-ocks. Utter. The amount of money raised will be entirely insignificant. Its going to take billions, not the odd million.

Sorry to come out with a simplistic cliché but is any amount of money going to do it? Poverty is the symptom not the cause.

 

[kropotkin]

That is correct. Does MPH and liberalism in general help to propagate that critique, or do they prevent the development of that sort of systemic analysis?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I wonder if she mentioned anything about Biff

i'm grassing you to lisarocket and haylz, sunshine

 

[nosos]

Krop

They prevent the development of it because they are institutions within the system in question.

(it's weird everything I'm posting on urban atm about politics leaves me feeling like a cliché)

 

[easy g]

i'm grassing you to lisarocket and haylz, sunshine

 

[Hollis]

That is correct. Does MPH and liberalism in general help to propagate that critique, or do they prevent the development of that sort of systemic analysis?

Oh I dunno.. I didn't know the extent of subsidies to EEC farmers etc, relative to the amount of aid etc received by LDCs.. I do now.

 

[editor]

quality not quantity surely

Well, if you want quality, it's time to whip out the plastic if you're looking at the best part of a week's heavy duty quaffing, innit?

 

[shoddysolutions]

those organisations are aiming to 'make poverty history' are saying they want to do it in a year. I know they know they can't do this. Its an extremely cynical sloagan IMO.

Yes, let's call it "Make a Little Bit of Poverty History for a While" instead. That'll be a much more accurate rallying call and one everyone can identify with, I'm sure.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

the point isn't that not everyone who goes pays the full price, or that they 'think about the issue for a minute', it's that the claims made for any involvement of a commercial event with a message/issue need to be kept in perspective.

Well, yes, I'd agree with you on that, and for many people I'm sure they forgot all about that message the minute they lost their MPH wrist band. But while obviously the festival can't be seen as purely a charitable event, at the same time I don't think any charitable involvement should be necessarily be deemed worthless and hypocritical.

the festival is a great thing, fun, exciting, enjoyable etc... but at the end of it, the litter is picked up by a litter-picker, the stages are de-rigged by roadies, the cattle are moved back in by farm workers - and the punters go home, back to their jobs, their lives... it's a part of our life of consumption and service, not an alternative to it.

Again, I think if you are viewing Glastonbury as a purely charitable festival than thats the wrong attitude to have, but likewise at least it does attempt to make a small difference, on different levels, which in my mind is better than none at all. And better IMPO than the likes of Carlsburg sponsored Reading.

Changing subject slightly, I have to say again though that it did break my heart how much mess some people left behind and the whole pissing in the stream thing. So obviously some of the messages never reach some people.

 

[Cid]

They prevent the development of it because they are institutions within the system in question.

(it's weird everything I'm posting on urban atm about politics leaves me feeling like a cliché)

This is the thing - I can completely see why charitable organisations wouold want a presence at glasto - massive exposure, a chance to have some big acts backing your work etc ad nauseam but MPH is just a giant show-boat for publicity-loving celebs to jump on. Poverty is obviously a massive issue in parts of the world, but you can't solve it by throwing the odd million at third world debt - the phrase 'pissing in the wind' was never more appropriate. The elimination of poverty is a fuck of a lot more complex than 'the debt', involves everything from the availability of contraception to decent, non-missionary based educations and the rights of farmers in the thrid world.

 

[nosos]

The elimination of poverty is a fuck of a lot more complex than 'the debt', involves everything from the availability of contraception to decent, non-missionary based educations.

I guess the question is are NGOs & charities capable of acting more effectively than they are now? Cos it's certainly not going to be governments, corporations or the SWP who make a difference.

 

[Cid]

I guess the question is are NGOs & charities capable of acting more effectively than they are now? Cos it's certainly not going to be governments, corporations or the SWP who make a difference.

I think NGOs/charities etc could do some good, certainly aid work (stuff like building wells etc), schooling etc brings some benefits - but these will never be able to overcome the gaps caused by stuff like the USG massively subsidising its own farms and watching calously as those in Africa slowly collapse.