chegrimandi
associated with adultery
if the message you are raising awareness of is contradictory, ie lets end poverty while we indulge in every excess possible what the fuck does that say to people? Its a wrong mixed message innit.... 
Glastonbury Hypocrisy + Make Poverty History
- Thread starter chegrimandi
- Start date
HarrisonSlade
say NO to the vaccine
Talking about hypocrisy and Glastonbury, did anybody see the interview with Billy Bragg? Popular celebrity blackleg Jo Whiley looking extremelly uncomfortable when the talentless folkster mentioned Trade Unions. I don't think Bragg had done it on purpose however, knowing his history of double standards.
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
J77 said:People don't piss in hedges anymore...
I think I once saw the disposible heroes of hiphoprisy there once - that was good
errr they do. Its the biggest threat to the festivals survival.
Hollis
bloody furious
chegrimandi said:if the message you are raising awareness of is contradictory, ie lets end poverty while we indulge in every excess possible what the fuck does that say to people? Its a wrong mixed message innit....
Well, I suppose you could argue that the slight incongruity, maybe struck a chord...
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
Well, not necessarily. As some people have said already, not everyone indulges in excess. And again, I think the amount of money they raised is probably a more important consideration than just "mixed messages".chegrimandi said:if the message you are raising awareness of is contradictory, ie lets end poverty while we indulge in every excess possible what the fuck does that say to people? Its a wrong mixed message innit....
Look, the thing is that everyone with a good standard of living apart from possible an extreme moral minority is going to spend money on whatever excesses they're in to (whether this is electrical equipment, drugs, music, clothes etc.) but it doesn't mean that some of these people can't also care about what goes on in the world, to differing extents. And its pretty unlikely that everyone is ever going to care so much that they'll donate all their money to such causes rather than their own excesses, at least in this day and age, so whats wrong with trying to make more people care at least a little bit?
Isn't anything better than nothing in this context?
Haven't time to do this properly now. Suffice to say I don't agree with chegrimandi -- not altogether anyway.
I also hate 'hypocsy hunting' -- always aimed at people who however wrongheadedly, incompletely, tokenly or inconsistently, are trying to do something however small. It's actually quite a right wing tactic, made no more palatable when done by lefties.
Would you rather have a completely, unrelievedly commercial festival where there is absolutely no good cause presence at all, no tents like Leftfield, no Green Fields, not even an attempt at any awareness raising?
The logic of your position chegs is that you'd prefer it at the Carling Crap Label Weakender or Richard Branson's Corporate Beard Festival, which I'm sure you wouldn't really!
(and I'm as critical of creeping commercialism at Glasto as anyone else)
Your criticisms are too sweeping I feel. More later.
I also hate 'hypocsy hunting' -- always aimed at people who however wrongheadedly, incompletely, tokenly or inconsistently, are trying to do something however small. It's actually quite a right wing tactic, made no more palatable when done by lefties.
Would you rather have a completely, unrelievedly commercial festival where there is absolutely no good cause presence at all, no tents like Leftfield, no Green Fields, not even an attempt at any awareness raising?
The logic of your position chegs is that you'd prefer it at the Carling Crap Label Weakender or Richard Branson's Corporate Beard Festival, which I'm sure you wouldn't really!
(and I'm as critical of creeping commercialism at Glasto as anyone else)
Your criticisms are too sweeping I feel. More later.
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
When Geldof was doing his rubbish speech on the main stage, in the tent we were in Mark Steel was doing a comedy slot and was slagging it all of saying it was shite and empty and that all the people like Collins were cunts and that he wanted a far more radical campaign. Not bad for a swappy
Agreeing with Agent Sparrow's posts.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
My nephew, who is at college, worked hard in the evenings in a local restaurant to save money for his Glastonbury ticket and money to spend when he got there.chegrimandi said:.............with a festival that basically makes it possible for thousands of essentially rich people to go into a field in the countryside and gourge and consume as many drugs,
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
Agent Sparrow said:
I'm sorry - not everyone indulges in excess - boll-ocks. Utter. The amount of money raised will be entirely insignificant. Its going to take billions, not the odd million. The message is all important because if people go away thinking I've done my bit whats really going to change. Sweet f.a.
Its all about the message being too tame, too empty and not radical enough.
Stobart Stopper said:
Good point, I know loads who while well off by global standards, are pretty damn skint by domestic ones. Yet they scrimp, save, cut corners through part of the year, to get to Glasto. Not everyone drinks/drugs/consumes to excess ... many do, but plenty don't.
chegrimandi said:
I actually agree with this, I would like a more radical campaign myself, but I still think your criticisms are too sweeping. No time for more just now.
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
I still hold that a million is better than than nothing, and the families that million help I imagine agree.chegrimandi said:
But... you could say the majority of people are tame and not radical.
If we lived in a perfect world I might agree more with what you're saying, but we don't live in one. End of. People generally are selfish. You have to work with that.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
I do think that this Make Poverty History malarky is another gimmick, a fad, that will just disappear with all the rest of them. Only reason it's in the limelight is becasue of the wristbands, which appeal to kids who like collecting them, and to fuckwit celebs who are up their own arseholes at the best of times.
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
Agent Sparrow said:
what if the way the million raised totally undermines what you are attempting to achieve? The long-term damage?
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
Is there any evidence to suggest in this case that thats been done? That the majority of people why did go home thinking "well, I've done my bit so I don't need to do anymore" would have otherwise donated? Because I don't reckon they would have done. But I guess its going to be very difficult to assert that either way.chegrimandi said:
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i'm not surprised mph put in an appearance at glastonbury. mph isn't some sort of alternative message, it's got fucking gordon brown on board, in the galley eating all the pies. it's a hideous melange of all manner of bandwaggon jumpers, charities, dire celebs and do-gooder xians. given the crass sentimental message they're trying to put across, i'd be astonished if they hadn't tried to fleece the drug-crazed hippies, and others, who attend glastonbury. satan knows there's enough money floating about at glastonbury if bookmarks could sell £2,500 of books to the inebriated attendees.
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
1) a lot of young people are hedoniststreelover said:
2) festivals attract a lot of hedonists
I'm not sure what you're saying - that people who indulge in excess are therefore uncaring in every single way and can't create any good? I mean come on, is there really anyone with a decent standard of living who can honestly say they never indulge in excess?
Cheg?
editor
hiraethified
We're all hypocrites one way or another, but to suggest that Glastonbury is nothing but "an orgy of western excess" is plain wrong.chegrimandi said:
Sure, there's a ton of that going on, but there's also dedicated environmentalists, alt lifestyle types and campaigners there too.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
i didn't go, but i still have an opinion 
yes, i think cheg has a good point. it's similar to the criticisms of the live8 stuff - that it's not enough to "raise the issue".
the contrast between a festival of fun (a 'good thing', don't get me wrong) and its attendant excesses, and poverty in its entire malnourished, overworked, underpaid glory is stark.
regardless of any well-meaning 'initiatives' paid for through glasto, or any on-site 'greenness', it feels like it's a case of 'salve your conscience by being there and knowing some of the cash goes to a good cause' - a weekend-long island of consciousness in the year-long polluted ocean of over-consumption, cultural imperialism and economic enslavement which is (for most of us in the global north, by implicit involvement) our life.
now, that's not to say we like it like that; but individual lifestyle choices do not the world change
discuss
btw i fully support mr eavis's involvement in contributing to the rural housing trust, which is helping local people in pilton rent properly affordable (ie if out of work, housing benefit would cover 100% of the rent), decent homes in pilton, meaning that it has a fighting chance of remaining a working village and not another dormitory for second-homing yuppies
that to me shows tangible results.
the rht does this all over england - see the 'village homes for village people' thread for more...
carry on!
yes, i think cheg has a good point. it's similar to the criticisms of the live8 stuff - that it's not enough to "raise the issue".
the contrast between a festival of fun (a 'good thing', don't get me wrong) and its attendant excesses, and poverty in its entire malnourished, overworked, underpaid glory is stark.
regardless of any well-meaning 'initiatives' paid for through glasto, or any on-site 'greenness', it feels like it's a case of 'salve your conscience by being there and knowing some of the cash goes to a good cause' - a weekend-long island of consciousness in the year-long polluted ocean of over-consumption, cultural imperialism and economic enslavement which is (for most of us in the global north, by implicit involvement) our life.
now, that's not to say we like it like that; but individual lifestyle choices do not the world change
discuss
btw i fully support mr eavis's involvement in contributing to the rural housing trust, which is helping local people in pilton rent properly affordable (ie if out of work, housing benefit would cover 100% of the rent), decent homes in pilton, meaning that it has a fighting chance of remaining a working village and not another dormitory for second-homing yuppies
that to me shows tangible results.the rht does this all over england - see the 'village homes for village people' thread for more...
carry on!
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
I'd like to say again that I don't necessarily disagree entirely with what you (or cheg) are saying, but I still hold that there are a hell of a lot of people who were there who would have contributed nothing if not for the price of their ticket. Surely if it gets someone to contribute for whatever reason, or at least think about the issue for a minute, its better than nothing at all (which is what a hell of a lot of people contribute).bristle-krs said:
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
why?editor said:
are you denying that there are druggie hippies at glastonbury?
editor
hiraethified
To be honest, I reckon most people were there for the beer, the bands, or whatever, but there is an element of Glasto that might open up da kiDz minds a bit.bristle-krs said:i didn't go, but i still have an opinion
yes, i think cheg has a good point. it's similar to the criticisms of the live8 stuff - that it's not enough to "raise the issue".
the contrast between a festival of fun (a 'good thing', don't get me wrong) and its attendant excesses, and poverty in its entire malnourished, overworked, underpaid glory is stark.
Although the festival has changed (sadly through necessity after the nightmare thieving/robbing days) and the corporate presence looms larger, there's still plenty there for activists, campaigners and those looking for a bit of alternative stuff. Hopefully, some of this might spark an interest in first time festival goers who haven't been presented with this kind of info before.
To judge the festival on its connection with MPM would be foolhardy: there's a ton of stuff going on and not all of it is about consumerism and hedonism.
Glasto is what it is (the best music festival in the UK as far as I'm concerned), but it seems unfair to expect it to be all things to all people.
I spent most of my time in the company of activists, environmentalists and the like. Others may have been busy getting their rocks off listening to Coldplay.
Each to their own, innit?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
make poverty money?editor said:
bristle-krs said:i didn't go, but i still have an opinion
yes, i think cheg has a good point. it's similar to the criticisms of the live8 stuff - that it's not enough to "raise the issue".
the contrast between a festival of fun (a 'good thing', don't get me wrong) and its attendant excesses, and poverty in its entire malnourished, overworked, underpaid glory is stark.
regardless of any well-meaning 'initiatives' paid for through glasto, or any on-site 'greenness', it feels like it's a case of 'salve your conscience by being there and knowing some of the cash goes to a good cause' - a weekend-long island of consciousness in the year-long polluted ocean of over-consumption, cultural imperialism and economic enslavement which is (for most of us in the global north, by implicit involvement) our life.
now, that's not to say we like it like that; but individual lifestyle choices do not the world change
discuss
btw i fully support mr eavis's involvement in contributing to the rural housing trust, which is helping local people in pilton rent properly affordable (ie if out of work, housing benefit would cover 100% of the rent), decent homes in pilton, meaning that it has a fighting chance of remaining a working village and not another dormitory for second-homing yuppies
the rht does this all over england - see the 'village homes for village people' thread for more...
carry on!
good post...
the RHT sounds like a great idea...we need a UHT (not the milk
) as well
editor
hiraethified
You've never set foot in the place so you won't know how laughable your emphasis on "drug crazed hippies" is.Pickman's model said:
They are in an absolute minority at Glasto, so why give them such prominence in your description?
Oh, I know why: it's because you were using tabloid-style language!
I rest my case.
I've noted that you seem a bit obsessed by Glasto, btw. You really should come down and find out for yourself what it's like.
