Glasgow schools occupied against closure

[Fedayn]

As for your comments about "gentrification". If only. Take that area. Wyndford estate (the Maryhill Barracks of old), and Maryhill, are unlikely to experience gentrification. Check the postcode G20 8HL on Google Maps and have a look round you'll see that the only thing that will gentrify the scheme is to knock it down as some kind of extension of slightly smarter Kelvindale. But it's not such a bad place and that's not going to happen.

And when, as Glasgow City Council wants, it loses both it's schools what hope for the Wyndford then? Why would anyone move there is there's no schools? Why bother to bring up a family there is there's no schools? Just another example of Labour shafting the people they claime to defend.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I don't know, is the brief answer. I don't know why anyone with the choice to move somewhere nicer than the Barracks would go there, but there are worse places for people with little choice. I can't imagine someone would say "well, I've a chance of moving to Ruchill, or Cadder, or Wyndford. Which has the best schools?" They'd choose Wyndford, I think. Just as they'd choose Kelvindale even if the nearest school was two miles away.

Anyway, I wish them all the best with their campaign. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?

 

[Fedayn]

I don't know, is the brief answer. I don't know why anyone with the choice to move somewhere nicer than the Barracks would go there, but there are worse places for people with little choice. I can't imagine someone would say "well, I've a chance of moving to Ruchill, or Cadder, or Wyndford. Which has the best schools?" They'd choose Wyndford, I think. Just as they'd choose Kelvindale even if the nearest school was two miles away.

Anyway, I wish them all the best with their campaign. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?

And who has fucked the schools over? Your Labour pals in the council, formerly the Scottish Government and at Westminster. They allowed the schools to deteriorate. They, your pals, have the responsibility. All you can do is dribble your idiocy and utter contempt for people onto the screen.

Well, why would you want to move there when your pals are trying to take the last two school;s away? What is down then for the Wyndford? You really are a fucking loathsome piece of work.

Are you deliberately this fucking stupid and or obtuse? The City Council, ie your Labour pals, want to take what little is left out of Wyndford and close it. Yet another working-class community they want to reduce to nothing whilst claiming to care....

 

[Fullyplumped]

And who has fucked the schools over? Your Labour pals in the council, formerly the Scottish Government and at Westminster. They allowed the schools to deteriorate. They, your pals, have the responsibility. All you can do is dribble your idiocy and utter contempt for people onto the screen.

Well, why would you want to move there when your pals are trying to take the last two school;s away? What is down then for the Wyndford? You really are a fucking loathsome piece of work.

Are you deliberately this fucking stupid and or obtuse? The City Council, ie your Labour pals, want to take what little is left out of Wyndford and close it. Yet another working-class community they want to reduce to nothing whilst claiming to care....

What mince. Labour-run Glasgow City Council has worked wonders in improving the city's secondary schools, all of which are now A rated, using a funding mechanism which I know brings you out in boils. I have no idea why it didn't improve all the primaries at the same time, and why their target date for bringing all primaries up to A standard is ten years away. You ought to ask them.

The City Council isn't taking away the last two schools from Wyndford estate, it is proposing to take the only two schools. If the proposal is approved, the kids will have to travel for a mile and a half to their new schools. Disappointing for them - the primary school I went to in the sixties was less than half a mile from my house till they closed it, and kids thereafter had a fair bit further to go, but that area is still thriving.

I don't think that the Wyndford estate will turn into a ghost town as a result of a decision to close the schools, but let's hope the councillors are persuaded by the campaign.

If people like you who aren't actually directly involved abuse them the way you have me, don't be surprised if they turn a deaf ear.

 

[Fedayn]

What mince. Labour-run Glasgow City Council has worked wonders in improving the city's secondary schools, all of which are now A rated, using a funding mechanism which I know brings you out in boils. I have no idea why it didn't improve all the primaries at the same time, and why their target date for bringing all primaries up to A standard is ten years away. You ought to ask them.

The City Council isn't taking away the last two schools from Wyndford estate, it is proposing to take the only two schools. If the proposal is approved, the kids will have to travel for a mile and a half to their new schools. Disappointing for them - the primary school I went to in the sixties was less than half a mile from my house till they closed it, and kids thereafter had a fair bit further to go, but that area is still thriving.

I don't think that the Wyndford estate will turn into a ghost town as a result of a decision to close the schools, but let's hope the councillors are persuaded by the campaign.

If people like you who aren't actually directly involved abuse them the way you have me, don't be surprised if they turn a deaf ear.

Why then citing deterioration, delapidation and falling rolls do they want to close the Wyndford and St Gregory's. The citry council admit themselves they are in a state of disrepair you stupid cretin. So that makes a mockery of your first poor claim. You are njothing more than a gutless little shill who tries to appear as a caring citizen when in reality you're just the same as your Labour pals. On the surface caring and concerned but in reality not bothered one iota as long as you're ok

Yes, the last two schools, taking yet another focal point out of the community. Yes how 'disappointing', hardly a word i'd use to describe yet more assaults on the social fabric of this city by your slimy carefree pals.

Well, in Govan, where the Labour Party approved, and utterly incompetently run GHA, are knocking houses down with abandon, they want to close many many schools. Knocking down the houses, forcing people to decant, then pointing at the lack of local children and using it to justify closing schools.... Yet more duplicity from you and your slimy pals.

Well I won't presume to shout at local councillors in the Wyndford. All I did this afternoon when I was there was take £240 to the occupation to pay for things they might need. Practical, useful solidarty. Slightly more useful by your utterly useless dribblings and slimy platitudes.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Why then citing deterioration, delapidation and falling rolls do they want to close the Wyndford and St Gregory's. The citry council admit themselves they are in a state of disrepair.... incoherent abuse

There was a sensible question among all that lot. They want to close a number of schools across the city, so that there are fewer underoccupied schools which will be easier to maintain and bring to the same standard as the secondaries. It's all quite straightforward.

 

[Fedayn]

It's all quite straightforward.

Yes, it's totally straightforward. The City council are arguing that, contrary to reports and studies going back years, larger class sizes don't mean worse education. reducing class sizes would be ‘irresponsible’

They don't care about child safety, they just want to balance their books at the expense of people they have little real concern for like the Wyndford.

As for abuse, your pals have been abusing people for years....

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yes, it's totally straightforward. The City council are arguing that, contrary to reports and studies going back years, larger class sizes don't mean worse education. reducing class sizes would be ‘irresponsible’

And they're probably wrong about that in my view. Although there were thirty in my class in primary. But what did we know.

They don't care about child safety, they just want to balance their books at the expense of people they have little real concern for like the Wyndford. As for abuse, your pals have been abusing people for years....

Whatever their failings, it is wrong to say they don't care about children in Glasgow. I'm sure that you will have said elsewhere that the school rebuilding programme was a shameful waste of money, but all the secondaries and more of the primaries are in excellent condition now.

But it makes no financial sense to run lots of underoccupied schools, and not to try to save on the half empty ones to do up the ones remaining. In the absence of magic powers, the Education Department have done good things and their strategy is sound. Many neighbouring councils have schools at 100 per cent capacity and lots of kids have to travel longer distances. We'll never see that in most parts of Glasgow.

And we were talking about your abuse of me.

 

[Fedayn]

And they're probably wrong about that in my view. Although there were thirty in my class in primary. But what did we know.

The vast majority of studies into class sizes all point to the smaller the class the better the education. Public/Independent schools are clear about this. The Scottish Labour Party is clear about this, the EIS but what would they know, as Steven Purcell and his 'Cabinet Education bod' seem to think they know better. That they have provided no substatiated even semi-credible evidence to back up this claim makes me think it's just more bollocks.

Whatever their failings, it is wrong to say they don't care about children in Glasgow. I'm sure that you will have said elsewhere that the school rebuilding programme was a shameful waste of money, but all the secondaries and more of the primaries are in excellent condition now.

But it makes no financial sense to run lots of underoccupied schools, and not to try to save on the half empty ones to do up the ones remaining. In the absence of magic powers, the Education Department have done good things and their strategy is sound. Many neighbouring councils have schools at 100 per cent capacity and lots of kids have to travel longer distances. We'll never see that in most parts of Glasgow.

And we were talking about your abuse of me.

Well shall we have a litany.....

Opposed free school meals even when they had the evidence of nuttritionists. Are here shown up as having no evidence for their claims re class sizes. Have shown little if any concern as regards the issue of major roads and child safety. When asked by parents at the Wyndford they couldn't come up with anything to show any kind of care for the kids.
And yet somehow their strategy is sound? You just admitted above that you're not convinced by their claims re class size. The very central plank of their current strategy you're not even convinced about. How then, as you claim, can this very 'their strategy be sound'? They haven't even done the baisic homework regarding child safety, yeah very sound.

The rationale for less schools is larger class sizes, which as we have already seen, is shown to not be conducive to better education. So yet again, you undermine the very 'strategy' you claim will work. The issue here is costcutting at whatver price can be got. Flying in the face of serious studies and yet more of Steven Purcell eing more concerned with his own profile than the safety, education and future of working-class children.

You and your pals deserve every bit of abuse you get.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Well, I suppose you think you're helping the cause of the parents of children at these schools. Maybe you are. I doubt it though.

I have tried to make people aware of what the source documents say about the rationale for the strategy. I won't repeat it for your benefit. You seem to be motivated by a wish to attack, which is all you can do given that the political party you probably supported has no representation on the City Council because too few people voted for it. And it's funny that you attack Steven Purcell, the council leader, given that he benefited from an education from Stratchclyde Regional Council, as did I from Glasgow Corporation Education Department.

I think the parents have made a good case for their schools to be joined together and invested in under the strategy, taking in children from other schools that will likely close. They haven't made any case against the strategy.

 

[Fedayn]

Well, I suppose you think you're helping the cause of the parents of children at these schools. Maybe you are. I doubt it though.

I have tried to make people aware of what the source documents say about the rationale for the strategy. I won't repeat it for your benefit. You seem to be motivated by a wish to attack, which is all you can do given that the political party you probably supported has no representation on the City Council because too few people voted for it. And it's funny that you attack Steven Purcell, the council leader, given that he benefited from an education from Stratchclyde Regional Council, as did I from Glasgow Corporation Education Department.

I think the parents have made a good case for their schools to be joined together and invested in under the strategy, taking in children from other schools that will likely close. They haven't made any case against the strategy.

I don't need any justification from the likes of you but carry on. The evidence free rationale, as you admit yourself, may be wrong. It has as yet been backed by not a jot of evidence. Perhaps you can proivide that evidence? That the central claim of higher class sizes making no difference flies in the face of near all studies you also fail to explain. But you simply parrot your idiocy for all to see.

So, because the party I am not a member of isn't on the council it makes my argument less correct? By that token when Labour were wiped out in various areas in England they weren't right about anything either? Jesus you're a fucking idiot. What was that about the size of classes when you were at school having no effect on you? Perhaps smaller classes would have enabled you to make less of a twat of yourself on that point?

So what re Purcell? So what if he got an education from SRC and you from GCC? What does that have to do with anything? What does the name of the authority that you and Purcell got an education from got to do with the current policy of Glasgow City Council as regards school closures? Care to explain that bit of idiocy fropm yourself? Funnily enough, we all had ane education from someone. Our having an education from 'A.N. Other' authority doesn't make it our argument better does it? Tony Blair benefitted from a student grant, sadly he thought others should have that benefit. You went to a school near you as part of your community, however you don't think that children in the Wyndford should have the same as you as regards making a positive contribution to their community.

 

[Fedayn]

Perhaps the parents of children at the schools in question should speak.....

Parents occupying Wyndford and St Gregory's have their say

 

[Fullyplumped]

Perhaps the parents of children at the schools in question should speak.....

Parents occupying Wyndford and St Gregory's have their say

"You must log in to see this page." I'm not a member of Facebook. Must be my inferior education. I'm sure it's all good.

 

[Fedayn]

"You must log in to see this page." I'm not a member of Facebook. Must be my inferior education. I'm sure it's all good.

Damn, I took it 'out' of FB and used the youtube footage. Gis a min....

 

[Fedayn]

 

[Fullyplumped]

I don't need any justification from the likes of you but carry on. The evidence free rationale, as you admit yourself, may be wrong. It has as yet been backed by not a jot of evidence. Perhaps you can proivide that evidence? That the central claim of higher class sizes making no difference flies in the face of near all studies you also fail to explain. But you simply parrot your idiocy for all to see.

That isn't the central claim of the estates strategy, though.

It's not my job to do all your research for you on the efficacy of reducing class sizes. It seems reasonable and just common sense to assume that fewer kids in class makes an easier life for the teacher, and that the policy about this of the Council is wrong, but as I said, my own experience, and that of my contemporaries, in a Glasgow primary of the sixties suggests that it's more complicated than that.

So, because the party I am not a member of isn't on the council it makes my argument less correct? By that token when Labour were wiped out in various areas in England they weren't right about anything either? Jesus you're a fucking idiot. What was that about the size of classes when you were at school having no effect on you? Perhaps smaller classes would have enabled you to make less of a twat of yourself on that point?

I think your political party's failure is why all you can do is attack people who were successful.

So what re Purcell? So what if he got an education from SRC and you from GCC? What does that have to do with anything? What does the name of the authority that you and Purcell got an education from got to do with the current policy of Glasgow City Council as regards school closures? Care to explain that bit of idiocy fropm yourself? Funnily enough, we all had ane education from someone. Our having an education from 'A.N. Other' authority doesn't make it our argument better does it? Tony Blair benefitted from a student grant, sadly he thought others should have that benefit. You went to a school near you as part of your community, however you don't think that children in the Wyndford should have the same as you as regards making a positive contribution to their community.

I was just reminiscing, really. You can do that if all your energies aren't focused on hatred and fighting a war by proxy. Steven Purcell is not someone that worried about his image, except in the sense that he is apparently more talented at the art of politics than you or me - he certainly comes from a similar background to my own and to the children presently attending most city schools now. The only point I was making there was to do with the fact that there have always been closures and, less often, openings. There's a table in the estates strategy which illustrates the movement since 1970. The community I grew up in didn't depend upon local schools for its identity. It still doesn't.

 

[Fullyplumped]

15 minutes - I'll watch it later. But it's plain from the outset that this isn't the parents' own video, but rather one made using them to attack Labour politically and advance the interest of another party. I put it on pause when the narrator used the words cost-cutting.

 

[Fedayn]

That isn't the central claim of the estates strategy, though.

It's not my job to do all your research for you on the efficacy of reducing class sizes. It seems reasonable and just common sense to assume that fewer kids in class makes an easier life for the teacher, and that the policy about this of the Council is wrong, but as I said, my own experience, and that of my contemporaries, in a Glasgow primary of the sixties suggests that it's more complicated than that.



I think your political party's failure is why all you can do is attack people who were successful.



I was just reminiscing, really. You can do that if all your energies aren't focused on hatred and fighting a war by proxy. Steven Purcell is not someone that worried about his image, except in the sense that he is apparently more talented at the art of politics than you or me - he certainly comes from a similar background to my own and to the children presently attending most city schools now. The only point I was making there was to do with the fact that there have always been closures and, less often, openings. There's a table in the estates strategy which illustrates the movement since 1970. The community I grew up in didn't depend upon local schools for its identity. It still doesn't.

But the estates strategy driving it is about reducing cost, not about education. It's a cost cutting exercise fluffed up as concern for education. That it's estates driven is a bit of an indicator too.

No, the research has been done by others. And yet Glasgow city council seem to think they know better. Their absolute lack of evidence to back their claims suggest otherwise.

Oh, so success in winning elections is what counts as regards what is right and to be supported. You're an utterly unprincipled creature aren't you? Success at winni9ng elections is what counts now actually making positive steps for workinc class communities.

Well there's always been closures, wo why not a few more..... How many more do you want? There's always been lost of things, that deosn't make it right or defencible.

The council in the recent past made it clear that local school;s were/are a focal point of a community. Funnily enough the removal of those focal points is now a good idea? The simple question then is what changed? Or is it nthat the priorities have now changed from scholls being a focal point of a community to the cost of that education being cut is now the priority.... I wonder....

Well why wouldn't I attack a council that are presiding of wholesale butchery in the education establishments in this city? Why wouldn't I attack a council who are systematically ripping the heart out of a community, as they have done with mine with the help of GHA? The farce of the GHA is waiting to unravel aswell.

 

[Fedayn]

15 minutes - I'll watch it later. But it's plain from the outset that this isn't the parents' own video, but rather one made using them to attack Labour politically and advance the interest of another party. I put it on pause when the narrator used the words cost-cutting.

Yeah that's right, these stupid women who can't think for themselves. Well the difference is i've met them. Like many many women, they're not stupid, they're not anyones dupes as you so patronisingly imply.... But hey why bother with them, they are of no concern to your life so just label tham dupes and grin smugly.

 

[Fullyplumped]

It's about stopping spending money to release it to where it can make a bigger difference.

I agree with you that it would be good to see the City Council and the Scottish Parent Teacher Council produce evidence to support their contentions on class sizes. I haven't seen any either.

You're twisting what I said about you and elections.

If the City Council thinks that schools are the focal point of a community then it's wrong, as can be demonstrated by the fact that that there plenty of communities where kids attend schools outwith the area.

I am not a fan of GHA.

 

[danny la rouge]

But it's plain from the outset that this isn't the parents' own video

The parents are making perfectly cogent arguments, and have seen through the arguments of the council. Not everyone slavishly agrees with the Labour Party, you know.

I was involved in opposing a primary school closure recently (this time in an SNP-run council) and I was amused to note some of the same poor arguments used then are used now by this Labour-run council: eg. 'the building is in poor repair'. - so fecking repair it, then! Who let it get into poor repair?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yeah that's right, these stupid women who can't think for themselves. Well the difference is i've met them. Like many many women, they're not stupid, they're not anyones dupes as you so patronisingly imply.... But hey why bother with them, they are of no concern to your life so just label tham dupes and grin smugly.

I thought the campaign involved men and women? But the video is not their video, its the SSP's. The fact that they agreed to be filmed for a particular political party's propaganda, if the SSP was upfront about it, is their choice. You can see that some fellow citizens will draw an unfavourable conclusion from that fact. Doesn't mean I don't still wish them well, of course.

And I haven't implied anything about them. you are the one who is making accusations about me. See, you're attacking again.

 

[Fullyplumped]

The parents are making perfectly cogent arguments, and have seen through the arguments of the council. Not everyone slavishly agrees with the Labour Party, you know.

I was involved in opposing a primary school closure recently (this time in an SNP-run council) and I was amused to note some of the same poor arguments used then are used now by this Labour-run council: eg. 'the building is in poor repair'. - so fecking repair it, then! Who let it get into poor repair?

Councils over decades let them get into disrepair. This Labour Council in Glasgow has turned that around in the past thirteen years - all secondaries are in A condition, and the strategy aims to get all primaries into A condition within ten years. Not fast enough in my opinion but I'm not in charge.

 

[Fedayn]

I thought the campaign involved men and women? But the video is not their video, its the SSP's. The fact that they agreed to be filmed for a particular political party's propaganda, if the SSP was upfront about it, is their choice. You can see that some fellow citizens will draw an unfavourable conclusion from that fact. Doesn't mean I don't still wish them well, of course.

And I haven't implied anything about them. you are the one who is making accusations about me. See, you're attacking again.

Yes it does, where doe it say no men are involved? The majority of those I met this afternoon were women. The majority of those involved in campaigns like thios on working class estates are women/ I really suggest you find out why.... You're beginning to look stupid again, not that you stopped frankly.

Quite clear here what you said....

5 minutes - I'll watch it later. But it's plain from the outset that this isn't the parents' own video, but rather one made using them to attack Labour politically and advance the interest of another party.

Yup, that's clear, in your own weirdo world, these women are allowing themselves to be used. They can't actually make the choice to speak in the video because they agree. Oh no, they can't possibly have come to the conclusion that the planned closure their schools by the Labour Party is a bad idea by themselves can they? Oh no they've been duped by these nasty people... The bloke introducing it being the father of a young boy in a school in Glasgow. The big bad brainwasher that he is.

As for attacking you, why not go to the school yourself and tell the parents they're being used? Off you go....

 

[danny la rouge]

Councils over decades let them get into disrepair.

I know. I'm just saying it's not a good reason to close a school. "Due to our own neglect, it's falling apart". Not confidence-inspiring. Not convincing. And not good enough.

Must try harder.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yes it does, where doe it say no men are involved? The majority of those I met this afternoon were women. The majority of those involved in campaigns like thios on working class estates are women/ I really suggest you find out why.... You're beginning to look stupid again, not that you stopped frankly.

Yup, that's clear, in your own weirdo world, these women are allowing themselves to be used. They can't actually make the choice to speak in the video because they agree. Oh no, they can't possibly have come to the conclusion that the planned closure their schools by the Labour Party is a bad idea by themselves can they? Oh no they've been duped by these nasty people...

Your comment was about "these stupid women" which was a bit dishonest, I thought. If the people who participated in the SSP video were happy to do so knowing they would be serving the SSP's propaganda purposes then that's their business. as I said before. You are the one being patronising. Were you a Lib Dem in an earlier life?

The bloke introducing it being the father of a young boy in a school in Glasgow. The big bad brainwasher that he is.

And I'm sure he's very saintly too. And not in the least self-serving.

As for attacking you, why not go to the school yourself and tell the parents they're being used? Off you go....

They don't need me bothering them. I'd just have to keep my mouth shut and not get into an argument. They need to save their energies for if they win.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I know. I'm just saying it's not a good reason to close a school. "Due to our own neglect, it's falling apart". Not confidence-inspiring. Not convincing. And not good enough.

Must try harder.

The huge expenditure on school building and improvement in Glasgow over the past thirteen years is "trying harder". So is the sustainable strategy for the next ten years. Planning, and making hard decisions which will not be popular, is trying harder.

 

[Fedayn]

Your comment was about "these stupid women" which was a bit dishonest, I thought. If the people who participated in the SSP video were happy to do so knowing they would be serving the SSP's propaganda purposes then that's their business. as I said before. You are the one being patronising. Were you a Lib Dem in an earlier life?

And I'm sure he's very saintly too. And not in the least self-serving.

They don't need me bothering them. I'd just have to keep my mouth shut and not get into an argument. They need to save their energies for if they win.

What was dishonest about it? You're simplistic snidey view that these women were used, as you were quoted, is patronising as per usual from your snidey don't-give-a-fuck self.

Yeah, they're stupid, they don't know what they are doing. They know exactly what thay're doing.

Nah he's no saint at all. And the women know exactly who he is and where he stands politically funnily enough. He's perfectly open about that. The difference is i've known him for 22 years and he's perfectly open about nwhat he is and where he stands.

No, i'm sure they'd be delighted to hear you telling them they're being used.

 

[danny la rouge]

The huge expenditure on school building and improvement in Glasgow over the past thirteen years is "trying harder". So is the sustainable strategy for the next ten years. Planning, and making hard decisions which will not be popular, is trying harder.

Spare us the pager-speak.

Council of all stripes are letting schools fall into disrepair. One of the main functions of local authorities is education. One of the main priorities of the population is education.

So, yes: not good enough. Must try harder.

 

[Fullyplumped]

The fact that they agreed to be filmed for a particular political party's propaganda, if the SSP was upfront about it, is their choice.

This is what I said. You are the one who called them stupid. I think you're beindg dishonest, rather than stupid.