Give me a good reason to keep using as much oil as we do now!

[butchersapron]

can you poit to where that's being claimed in fact if you weren't so obbsessed you'd see i've already said that actually getting the thing to work is the first hurdle...

you couldn't be consistant if we nailed you to the floor and still you're harping on like an anarkid verison of JC2 when are you going to contribe to the thread fanclub?

What thing?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I'll ask again

you are such a mental cripple...

at what point in this thread have i stated i'm the defacto expert on these matters?

not at all.

At what point did the reasonable discussion about peoples use of oil and the continueation of the greed involved become fanclub stamps foot and demands explaination of everything one poster has said.

why not enlighten us all as you clearly know more than the rest of us. what is it arrogance or pride or snobbery which prevents you from illuminating us plebs...

or is it that you are a poor troll. with little to do....

 

[butchersapron]

you are such a mental cripple...

at what point in this thread have i stated i'm the defacto expert on these matters?

not at all.

At what point did the reasonable discussion about peoples use of oil and the continueation of the greed involved become fanclub stamps foot and demands explaination of everything one poster has said.

why not enlighten us all as you clearly know more than the rest of us. what is it arrogance or pride or snobbery which prevents you from illuminating us plebs...

or is it that you are a poor troll. with little to do....

I troll-brother be:

Have you actually got anything to back up the stuff that you're saying. There's very little meat on anything that you say. I've just re-read the thread It's just generic stuff about how technology develops, there's nothing specific really. Is there. So the floor is yours garf. Educate us.

Do we get an answer?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What thing?

once again you have gotten so far ahead of yourself you aren't capable of following a simple line of discussion. the thing is any new emergant technology which removes the dependancy on oil.

when will you contribute.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The fact that you're too thick to see that i've
made the only really serious point on this thread doesn't bother me.

again we only see you own arrogance in this response yours are by far the least serious posts on this thread, at least JC2 is banging his anti enviromentalist gong... you have no poitn at all other than to once again show your stalker like tendancies to all concerned...

care to tell us in your own words what it is we're all missing yet fan club...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I troll-brother be:



Do we get an answer?

you've ahd an answer. I'm not an expert on these matters only have a general knoweldge of them and what i've read, you on the other hand are passing off as being far greater educated than my tiny mind so please do enlighten us unless there's some sort of prestege in your elitism of keeping this information private.

apperently you seem to think unless you are as educated as you then there is no justification in discussing the matter at all. which again only serves to highlight your snobbishness...

so why don't you tell us.

or is it that in reality you have no more information and are simply spoiling for a fight...

i know which one my monies on, fanclub.

 

[butchersapron]

once again you have gotten so far ahead of yourself you aren't capable of following a simple line of discussion. the thing is any new emergant technology which removes the dependancy on oil.

when will you contribute.

Oh god, do i really have to point out that this utiopia is bonded by capitalist interests. Are you really that naive. Who do you think funded it? Do you think it just exists? So naive.

Not that it even exists - it's all bullshit isn't it. No meat.

 

[david dissadent]

As we speak I am working on a new form of central heating that is powered by internet flames.

Fuck me if it works your in the gravy.

 

[Citizen66]

why wouldn't they want to capitalise on the next big wave either... it makes no sense to stop emergant markets which will allow them to diviserify their product lines... it's basic market economics...

Because right now it's about maintaining the status quo I suppose. We all know the shock is coming, as do they. I was talking to a colleague the other day and he was telling me that back in the 60s (?) some guy invented a fuel injector that would use a certain percentage of water to reduce fuel consumption... and then you never heard of the idea again. There's two possible reasons for this.

1) The invention was a crock of shite and didn't actually work.

2) The invention DID actually work but then there's less oil being sold so less money exchanging hands and less tax because of it, so the design was bought up and locked in some vault somewhere.

I'm keeping my mind open about it.

Night.

 

[butchersapron]

you've ahd an answer. I'm not an expert on these matters only have a general knoweldge of them and what i've read, you on the other hand are passing off as being far greater educated than my tiny mind so please do enlighten us unless there's some sort of prestege in your elitism of keeping this information private.

apperently you seem to think unless you are as educated as you then there is no justification in discussing the matter at all. which again only serves to highlight your snobbishness...

so why don't you tell us.

or is it that in reality you have no more information and are simply spoiling for a fight...

i know which one my monies on, fanclub.

I'd be very happy to see some facts and figures, some reports - that sort of thing then garf. Think you can rustle that up?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Oh god, do i really have to point out that this utiopia is boinded by capitalist interests. Are you really that naive. Who do you think funded? it Do you think it just exists? So naive.

Not that it even exists - it's all bullshit isn't it. No meat.

you are dissaprring up your own harris here now i've already said along time ago ont he thread that the technologies are still being developed...

it's a circular argument.

so as i've also said repeatdly whats your take on it what's your information care to contribute to the thread or is it that you in fact like lording it over others...

oh wait it's your reason d'etre isn't it...

what a shame once again you've fucked up another thread with your obession surrounding me...

do you want me to send you a signed photo or summit....

 

[david dissadent]

We all know the shock is coming,

The shock is here.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I'd be very happy to see some facts and figures, some reports - that sort of thing then garf. Think you can rustle that up?

nope but as you 've got it all to hand why don't you mr elietist...

 

[butchersapron]

nope but as you 've got it all to hand why don't you mr elietist...

Thnak you for confirming that you were bullshitting garf.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Thnak you for confirming that you were bullshitting garf.

about what there's nothign in what i've said which is unture or innaccurate you yourself have said it's genralised comments if you have something to add other than the obbsessive following me around the board then do so otherwise what's the gain in attempting to prevent discussion of the topic?

do you dispute the graph posted on page one of the breaking of the polymer chains to refine crude to refined oil is that the problem?

are you saying technology will not be developed in line with other technological advancements which will start slow and hopefully before oil becomes to scarce result in steady more effient and more effective technologies to replace oil?

or are you saying oil companies are sitting on this technology now?

you are allowing your obsession to blind you entirely to what's been said.

now then you've had your little victory will you contribute to the thread or will it be another page and a half of your patheitic attacks on another poster in order to win at the internet?

 

[butchersapron]

What was my little victory garf?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Why would they want to stop selling you oil right now? Remember, capitalism isn't about using the resources to better you or the planet...

I thought capitalism was all about using resources to better you. I can see why its more profitable to keep selling oil then develop new technology, but I don't think that they are just sitting on new technology so they can keep selling us oil. Sure there are promising technologies ahead for some of the things we depend on oil for, but they are a long way off. Otherwise it would make sense to sell them.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What was my little victory garf?

god only knows but seemingly you've had it you still haven't contributed on jot to the thread...

I'm going ot bed in the full expectation you'll have posted something worth discussing in the morning and the full expectation i'll be dissappointed...

such a child.

 

[butchersapron]

god only knows but seemingly you've had it you still haven't contributed on jot to the thread...

I'm going ot bed in the full expectation you'll have posted something worth discussing in the morning and the full expectation i'll be dissappointed...

such a child.

Runaway then garf. Not a problem.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Runaway then garf. Not a problem.

when you're ready to post up something worhty of dicussion fanclub...

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Its possible that some of it works, just not as well or as cheaply as oil. So the temptation is to underinvest in such things, and not really push them until absolutely necessary. Which is much to late to transition without, at the very least, economic pain.

And then there is the question of how well some of these technologies scale up. This has a big affect on their viability and price. So far I havent seen anything that will enable us to have exactly the same lifestyles in future, at the very least energy will cost more and the price will force people to take consumption seriously.

Very true and I think we are closer in some things then others. I'd be interested hear about what alternatives we have for fertilizers for example. Its unlikely that oil will run out, but that the cost of extracting it will make not worthwhile using in all but the most essential things.

What I think will be interesting is to see which nations will survive this semi intact and which will fail, I think will see a big shake up in who holds the power in the world. I don't think it looks good for us as an island nation with a large population.

 

[Citizen66]

I thought capitalism was all about using resources to better you. I can see why its more profitable to keep selling oil then develop new technology, but I don't think that they are just sitting on new technology so they can keep selling us oil. Sure there are promising technologies ahead for some of the things we depend on oil for, but they are a long way off. Otherwise it would make sense to sell them.

Then you underestimate the power of private equity. Why would BP agree to technologies that would mean them selling less oil? And without wanting to go down any conspiracy theory routes - the oil companies have a lot of political clout. If my colleague's story is true, which I don't doubt for a minute - what's to stop the oil conglomerates from buying up any design that could effectively put them out of business?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Because if they were smart they would be market leaders in this new technology. Its going to take billions to bring these products to the market and who better to do it then multi national corporations with very deep pockets?

 

[Citizen66]

Because if they were smart they would be market leaders in this new technology. Its going to take billions to bring these products to the market and who better to do it then multi national corporations with very deep pockets?

Because the technologies involve using less oil... why is it in their interests to fund development? They're interested in profits in the here and now. That is what business and private equity is about. Not the future of the planet or how you may personally suffer as the prices rise as the stocks are depleted...

The only thing green about BP is the logo.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Fair enough, but this is a jump from them just sitting on technologies. It would still make sense to do so though to ensure long term survival of the company, even if they don't care about the planet.

I think the new BP logo is shit anyway.

vs

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

not 10 years ago wind turbines were impossibly expensive to make build and get working .

Bullshit. We've had wind turbines in the Rocky Mountains for decades. They've had them outside of Palm Springs for as long if not longer. And those are only the two that I've observed with my own eyes. I'm sure there are lots of other examples.

 

[free spirit]

You know what I like about these threads?

The anti warming, anti oil, anti etc types, always throw up these complicated, multicoloured graphs, and pictures, that nobody really wants to bother to understand.

They do it to make it look like what they're saying, is authoritative, beyond questioning.

Don't fall for it, folks. There are lots of other graphs out there, saying all sorts of different things, lots of them in conflict with each other.

Look at every global warming thread we have. All full of multicoloured graphs.

fuck me johnny, is this really the extent of your arguement now?

ignore them sciency types, they're always posting up graphs and stuff to make themselves look clever.

sometimes it's like debating with toddlers on here

 

[free spirit]

Bullshit. We've had wind turbines in the Rocky Mountains for decades. They've had them outside of Palm Springs for as long if not longer. And those are only the two that I've observed with my own eyes. I'm sure there are lots of other examples.

Garf is talking a lot of shit on this thread as well mind

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

fuck me johnny, is this really the extent of your arguement now?

ignore them sciency types, they're always posting up graphs and stuff to make themselves look clever.

sometimes it's like debating with toddlers on here

No, my argument is multifaceted.

Look for yourself. These threads are full of graphs. To the gullible, maybe graphs indicate some higher knowledge, or something.

 

[free spirit]

No, my argument is multifaceted.

Look for yourself. These threads are full of graphs. To the gullible, maybe graphs indicate some higher knowledge, or something.

yeah, but you just made that comment about a diagram illustrating how the different bits of oil are used after refining, which is hardly contentious, so you're comment made you look pretty dumb.

and arguing against the use of graphs to illustrate a point is equally dumb IMO.