Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
let's sort out all the problems with the human cops first and then start worrying about robots if and when they're introduced.Pot-Bellied Pig said:
Getting Mugged In Brixton
- Thread starter hendo
- Start date
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
do you find that ethanol improves your interpersonal skills at work and ability to do your job? i've always found that the reverse is the rule.Pot-Bellied Pig said:
Mrs Magpie said:
Yes..I wasn,t aiming it at him specifically. In the end no-one deserves to be a victim of crime as such.
However some certainly ( and again I am not relating to specific cases ) put themselves in harm's way. So here are some guidelines from experience.
Rules.
1. If your going to get pissed up go home with friends, take a cab you can trust, or sober up so you can remember where you are and what you did.
2. If you must wear a Rolex cover it up when you get on the night bus on the top deck with three guys in hoodys.
3. Walking down unlit side streets at night talking on your mobile is not a good idea in some parts of london.
4. Ipods and MP3's are fun...but put them away when you are alone and vunerable. They attract attention.
5. Taking out wads of cash in the local kebab house at 3am when drunk will result in you coming to some notice amongst the local youth.
6. Carrying weapons for self-defence is understandable but not legal and most likely will result in it being used on you instead of by you.
7. If you must pose in your open top sports car in an expensive suit please put your designer handbag in the locked boot and steer clear of dropping off your schoolfriends in the middle of a dark estate at night
8. Going to buy your spliff from a new dealer in an unknown area may have certain drawbacks.
9. Agreeing to have a liason with a prostitute in a dark alleyway with her pimp and his mates around the corner is damaging to your wealth ( especailly if you invite her back to your place afterwards with her new boyfriend called Razor and his mate Jimmy Jack The Hat.
10. Giving money to street beggars is nice but don't get angry when they follow you around the corner and stomp on your head later for more.
I could go on. s I say no-one should be a victim of crime, but some people may as well tattoo it on their foreheads.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
Nice tagline btw!
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Not as good as yours Stobart....
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Pot-Bellied Pig said:Wow...sooner they make police people from the same DNA pool the better then we can have them all like robots. They can think the same, speak the same, arrest people the same way and give evidence the same
Police are supposed to be trained to arrest and give evidence in the correct professional manner.If your saying that makes them robots what kind of police force to you think should exist?
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
hendo, sorry to see it was a goalless draw...hope you made it to the match in time....
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
PBP, your advice for avoiding being a victim of crime is sound! 
But I have to take issue about the cop & the negative comments about Brixton. It's basically rude & utterly unprofessional to slag off where the person you are serving, in a work capacity, lives. It doesn't matter what you think or what you say out of work (well, it does, but in a different way!). I've done work on some fairly bad estates in my time but would think it the last word in bad manners & unprofessionalism to slag off any neighbourhood to the people who live there.
But I have to take issue about the cop & the negative comments about Brixton. It's basically rude & utterly unprofessional to slag off where the person you are serving, in a work capacity, lives. It doesn't matter what you think or what you say out of work (well, it does, but in a different way!). I've done work on some fairly bad estates in my time but would think it the last word in bad manners & unprofessionalism to slag off any neighbourhood to the people who live there.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
The worst example I heard (told me by another policeman who was born in this area) was from a young copper from another part of the country who said everyone who lived on council estates in Brixton was scum. That's an extreme example, but if people slag off where I live, I get at worse, angry, and at best, defensive.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
oryx said:PBP, your advice for avoiding being a victim of crime is sound!
But I have to take issue about the cop & the negative comments about Brixton. It's basically rude & utterly unprofessional to slag off where the person you are serving, in a work capacity, lives. It doesn't matter what you think or what you say out of work (well, it does, but in a different way!). I've done work on some fairly bad estates in my time but would think it the last word in bad manners & unprofessionalism to slag off any neighbourhood to the people who live there.
i totally agree with this post. PBP's advice is sound. the only time i've be successfully robbed was in brixton. i'd never been there before and gave a quid to a beggar outside KFC.... yes, i know NOW... who proceeded to grab a note out my wallet and get the fuck out of dodge. naturally i complained to the two coppers standing five paces away watching and the only response i got was "if you're stupid enough to get your wallet out..."
now i know that the whole area's scum thrive on this sort of thing, idiot people who aren't expecting to be mugged in a public place watched by coppers, but i think this also makes my criticism of the police valid when i wonder why this sort of thing was tolerated.
sorry to hear that hendo, but I don't think it's just limited to brixton, I know somebody who's been mugged in sheperds bush and kings cross, could happen anywhere really. As for the copper - well this kind of splits me 50/50. I can understand his bad attitude in a way - doesn't make it right, but dealing with all the scumbags continously must colour your view of the human race.......but it's quite easy not to be in police isn't it? I wouldn't do it, but somebody has to.
This makes me think of a funny quote by Rik Mayall in the young ones -
"I'm sick and tired of everybody slagging off the police - the next time sombody is smashing your front door down with baseball bat - try calling a left wing comedian....." genius.
This makes me think of a funny quote by Rik Mayall in the young ones -
"I'm sick and tired of everybody slagging off the police - the next time sombody is smashing your front door down with baseball bat - try calling a left wing comedian....." genius.
Hendo, just heard about your experience from Blind Lemon. Shee-it. I am increasingly of the opinion that getting a beat up old bike and cycling around Brixton at night is a good idea, especially on stretches like Railton Road by the playground and Somerleyton Road, which are altogether too long and deserted. 
hendo
Fish finger sandwiches
Thanks to everyone who's sent me PM's and supportive messages on this thread. Really it's only the ego that's bruised, and a graze on my right knee when I fell over.
And good to see the return of PBP, so something positive has emerged from the experience!
I had some misgivings when I reviewed the content of my original post which was probably a bit too frank about what the officer had said, but really PBP, is it helpful to knock the place you're policing? Rather had me feeling that the officer felt the battle had been lost. Which in the position I was in on Friday night was not really what I wanted to hear.
That being said he was very friendly and supportive to me personally which WAS what I wanted, and so was his colleague. So all in all the police experience was in no way bad, infact it was quite therapeutic being driven around in the back of the Astra, and he is entitled to a view as you say. He was not armed and yet was quite prepared to get out and confront these men on my say so; which is quite a thing on reflection.
No, the point about Friday was not the policemen but the muggers. Being pursued down the street by these blokes is not an experience I'd care to repeat, very scary. Then suddenly I was really angry and started really kicking out at them, and plainly NOT being afraid, AND getting on my feet, which presumably made them decide on running away.
So all in all not such a bad experience. Now the trick is to feel better about being on the street after dark. Railton is not usually dangerous because there are so many people around. But getting my confidence back is going to be a bit difficult, I think, even after such a relatively minor incident.
And good to see the return of PBP, so something positive has emerged from the experience!
I had some misgivings when I reviewed the content of my original post which was probably a bit too frank about what the officer had said, but really PBP, is it helpful to knock the place you're policing? Rather had me feeling that the officer felt the battle had been lost. Which in the position I was in on Friday night was not really what I wanted to hear.
That being said he was very friendly and supportive to me personally which WAS what I wanted, and so was his colleague. So all in all the police experience was in no way bad, infact it was quite therapeutic being driven around in the back of the Astra, and he is entitled to a view as you say. He was not armed and yet was quite prepared to get out and confront these men on my say so; which is quite a thing on reflection.
No, the point about Friday was not the policemen but the muggers. Being pursued down the street by these blokes is not an experience I'd care to repeat, very scary. Then suddenly I was really angry and started really kicking out at them, and plainly NOT being afraid, AND getting on my feet, which presumably made them decide on running away.
So all in all not such a bad experience. Now the trick is to feel better about being on the street after dark. Railton is not usually dangerous because there are so many people around. But getting my confidence back is going to be a bit difficult, I think, even after such a relatively minor incident.
Having been there and tried it, it REALLY, REALLY is difficult to try and persuade young officers from somewhere very unlike Brixton, surrounded all day and every day with violent criminals, bloodied victims, cynical lawyers; ineffective magistrates courts, alcoholics and drug addicts who should be in hospital / rehab; care in the community patients who are receiving precisely zero care; battalions of people who are only too quick to complain and slow to praise and all the rest of the inner city´s rich tapestry of life that it isn´t really a shit-hole. Sadly they never get chance to see / try the good things, rushing from call to call and living miles away.
I really do think we should find some way of getting police officers living in the communities they serve, though it won´t be easy (not least because of fears of reprisals, cf. Liverpool, Belfast, Glasgow ...)
I really do think we should find some way of getting police officers living in the communities they serve, though it won´t be easy (not least because of fears of reprisals, cf. Liverpool, Belfast, Glasgow ...)
supercity
Back, and readjusting
Detective boy, I know you get a lot of questions thrown at you on these boards, so apologies for this one.
I'd like to know what you think of the Japanese police koban system. Basically at all major stations, junctions and hotspots nationwide, there's a police box manned by at least 2 cops. Most of the time they do nothing but drink tea and give people directions, but they do break up drunken scuffles, and they are a point of contact for anyone who is a victim of crime. Also, their telling the time/giving directions functions help contribute to an image of the police force that is radically different from that which you 'enjoy'. They're still seen as social helpers.
For several years I lived in Tokyo, a city at least twice the size of London, with over twice its population, and on the day after I moved into a new flat, there was a knock at the door. It was the local cop from the koban on the corner, come to introduce himself, leave me his card and let me know he was available if I ever needed help.
While I'm not advocating that the British police should adopt the worst practices of the Japanese police (fitting people up, openly taking bribes from the mob and regularly getting on to Amnesty's hit-list), it did seem to me that on a local, personal level the system worked. Hell, a police man even lent me £50 one night to get home after the cashpoint had closed.
My only contact with the Brixton police was many years ago when I went to the station to produce my car documents. The desk cop's idea of bonding with me was to say: "God it's good to see a white face after a whole day dealing with this lot."
I'd like to know what you think of the Japanese police koban system. Basically at all major stations, junctions and hotspots nationwide, there's a police box manned by at least 2 cops. Most of the time they do nothing but drink tea and give people directions, but they do break up drunken scuffles, and they are a point of contact for anyone who is a victim of crime. Also, their telling the time/giving directions functions help contribute to an image of the police force that is radically different from that which you 'enjoy'. They're still seen as social helpers.
For several years I lived in Tokyo, a city at least twice the size of London, with over twice its population, and on the day after I moved into a new flat, there was a knock at the door. It was the local cop from the koban on the corner, come to introduce himself, leave me his card and let me know he was available if I ever needed help.
While I'm not advocating that the British police should adopt the worst practices of the Japanese police (fitting people up, openly taking bribes from the mob and regularly getting on to Amnesty's hit-list), it did seem to me that on a local, personal level the system worked. Hell, a police man even lent me £50 one night to get home after the cashpoint had closed.
My only contact with the Brixton police was many years ago when I went to the station to produce my car documents. The desk cop's idea of bonding with me was to say: "God it's good to see a white face after a whole day dealing with this lot."
john x
Well-Known Member
hendo said:
They are such a bunch of wankers. When someone attempted to torch my place about fifteen years ago, the cops who attended came out with 'well what do you expect living in a place like this' No inquiry, no forensics, nothing. And that was a clear case of attempted murder as at least three people were sleeping in the house that night.
Reporting a car theft about ten years ago, the officer on the front desk told me 'it was probably coons, who had your car'
Nice to see that 10-15 years later, they still have the same attitude to the place they police.
There are some people on here who moan on about posters who hate the police. Sometimes there is a very good reason for it.
john x
supercity said:
Sounds like a good idea. The loss of routine non-confrontational encounters between police and public is, in my opionion, DEFINITELY having a negative effect. The Community Support Officers are intended to do the sort of thing you describe in Japan, as the Ward-based teams of "dedicated" police officers, steadily being introduced around the Met thanks to Ken LIvingstone (who has arranged additional funding). Also sounds like bits of most "Community Policing" systems used / tried in UK.
Sadly, to have the time to do this stuff you need far, far more officers than we have in the UK at present and / or less calls on their time (lots of foreign criminal justice systems have far less onerous evidential requirements than the UK - for every rule which says something must be recorded/secured/stored/disclosed/tested/viewed ... there are some more cop hours off the street. All these rulkes sound very good on their own, and all can be justified but the upshot is the "bureaucracy" which keeps cops off the street - they are NOT just writing / typing things for the love of it but to comply with various legal / evidential / procedural requirements none of which the public are likely to agree to remove.
detective-boy said:Having been there and tried it, it REALLY, REALLY is difficult to try and persuade young officers from somewhere very unlike Brixton, surrounded all day and every day with violent criminals, bloodied victims, cynical lawyers; ineffective magistrates courts, alcoholics and drug addicts who should be in hospital / rehab; care in the community patients who are receiving precisely zero care; battalions of people who are only too quick to complain and slow to praise and all the rest of the inner city´s rich tapestry of life that it isn´t really a shit-hole. Sadly they never get chance to see / try the good things, rushing from call to call and living miles away.
I really do think we should find some way of getting police officers living in the communities they serve, though it won´t be easy (not least because of fears of reprisals, cf. Liverpool, Belfast, Glasgow ...)
I agree, there should be a rule that a certain percentage of police must live in the neighborhood where they work. The lack of such a rule causes huge problems in the US, where the suburban-dwelling police tend to view the inner cities as hostile territory to be occupied. When I lived on the Lower East Side in New York, I had a cop I met socially tell me that the area was populated entirely by "junkies and mental patients," and ask how I could possibly reside among such "scum." His attitude was much like that of US troops in Iraq: total incomprehension of the culture combined with low-level generalized hostility to the inhabitants and a vague desire to hurt and persecute them simply for being different from him. He wasn't a bad guy, just a regular Joe with no experience of or idea about blacks, Latinos or white bohemians. A couple of months living on Avenue C would have sorted him out.
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
Hendo... I'm sorry I only just saw this... your post happened just when I went on holiday and must have gotten buried...
That's fucking shit.. I haven't read the whole post but I will do tomorrow properly.... probably shouldn't say any more now as I've had a few drinks...
That's fucking shit.. I haven't read the whole post but I will do tomorrow properly.... probably shouldn't say any more now as I've had a few drinks...
