Germany v Italy

[William of Walworth]

Was not being unrealistic. I pointed out that Paraguay and T&T offered fuck all to bother England, and they didn't.

Robinson had about seven saves to makes in the entire tournament up to the quarter final, proves my point about England's middling performances being easily enough to cope and that moronic statements about us being worse than Paraguay were exactly that.

I realise muser is a bit dense but please don't leave his idiotic misinterpretations of my views go unchallenged.

Points taken .... I still think in general you were a bit overoptimistic, but it's academic now ...

 

[William of Walworth]

The thing is William outside of Urban and similar circles there isn't much to hear from that articulate minority. I came close to losing a very good English friend because I told her I thought Portugal deserved the win. All sorts of normally sensible, critical minded people were prepared to swallow the hype surrounding England. And now many of them won't even bother to watch the remaining games because they reckon this year's World Cup is the worst ever. Well that's their loss as they'll have missed a great game last night by two teams playing quality football.

I take your points, people do get very irrational, maybe I've been lucky in hanging out with pessimists (realists by another name )

All I can say that if anyone missed last night's game or Brazil/France on Saturday, simply because England are out, then they're not ony stupid, but parttimers in terms of their commitment to supporting football ...

 

[Macaroni Pony]

I know it was a good result last night lads - but still.....

 

[Maggot]

I know it was a good result last night lads - but still.....

You've copied my tagline.

 

[tangerinedream]

Fong, myself, Renagadedog and triggy were all realistic about our chances, even in games we won. Get on here and the likes of JTG were waxing lyrical about the fact how we dominated games, and 'the opposition never really troubled us'. When it was clear that the contrary view was more in keeping with reality.

Well lets get medals out for you and fong and renegadedog and triggy then. Well done. We lost. Who'd have thought? You did us all a service reminding us that we would probably go out. Thanks! I'll never again look at a team i support and dare to hope we will win, unless we win 156-0 in every game. God forbid a supporter should look with anything other than cynicism on their team. God forbid a supporter have some optimism or anything other than negativity. In fact, lets get the righteous four named above a job on the pools panel, such is their soothsaying ability.

 

[cesare]

Well lets get medals out for you and fong and renegadedog and triggy then. Well done. We lost. Who'd have thought? You did us all a service reminding us that we would probably go out. Thanks! I'll never again look at a team i support and dare to hope we will win, unless we win 156-0 in every game. God forbid a supporter should look with anything other than cynicism on their team. God forbid a supporter have some optimism or anything other than negativity. In fact, lets get the righteous four named above a job on the pools panel, such is their soothsaying ability.

Wouldn't take no notice of the opinions named

 

[tangerinedream]

Wouldn't take no notice of the opinions named

No they are geniuses. They are the four mystic megs of football.

 

[tangerinedream]

hmmm i dunno about on the ground, but in the media anyone who suggest England hadn't a chance was looked at like they were about to blow themselves up on a bus. The media are the fuckers responsible for this shit. Every time they build them up so they can tear them down.

Most ABE's will tell you that their problem isn't so much with the England team (though this year their dire footabll was responsible for most of my bile) but rather the constant shit we have to listen to in the media.

The 'media' are only responsible for what you take notice of. There has been plenty of criticism of England in many different quarters of the media, before and after the WC.

I personally think anyone who is Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc has a right to be ABE and I find the people who are threatened by that dismal and boring. It's like expecting an Everton fan to support Liverpool in the Champions League. I also think it's fine for England fans not to support England, I just find it tiresome when English people spend hours and hours moaning before, during and after games about how it's not good enough and how they would support them but.....

 

[tangerinedream]

Hold on, before we went out there was talk of us winning the world cup. Alot of supporters came on here and said that results matter not 'how we do it'.
Now we are out, the tune changes. For euro08, we will be favourites in most people's minds until we get knocked out. Fickle bunch.

You really, really don't get football do you. You really don't get the concept of a knock out competition or support at all.

Maybe your right though.

I am not going to bother going to blackpool and supporting anymore, because in my heart of hearts I don't think we are favourites for our division. Therefore I will spend all my time pointing out the shortcomings of 'my' team and talking down victories till, at the end of the season I can say - Look I said we wouldn't win it - You idiots!*

*but it will be ok, though I still will be a fan because I will claim to want us to win.

 

[zed]

You really, really don't get football do you. You really don't get the concept of a knock out competition or support at all.

Maybe your right though.

I am not going to bother going to blackpool and supporting anymore, because in my heart of hearts I don't think we are favourites for our division. Therefore I will spend all my time pointing out the shortcomings of 'my' team and talking down victories till, at the end of the season I can say - Look I said we wouldn't win it - You idiots!*

*but it will be ok, though I still will be a fan because I will claim to want us to win.

That is a flawed argument ...because basically, what you are saying here is that to be a real football fan you have to support a team. And that espousing the merits of that team, now matter how removed from reality it might be, is what football knowledge is all about.

Which is of course, total bollocks.

 

[tangerinedream]

That is a flawed argument ...because basically, what you are saying here is that to be a real football fan you have to support a team. And that espousing the merits of that team, now matter how removed from reality it might be, is what football knowledge is all about.

Which is of course, total bollocks.

No chief, I'm not.

Where do I say 'you have to support a team?'

 

[Choc]

yay! italy-france on sunday.

and germany-portugal for the loosers game.



i don't know what ABE means (?) but i think people should stop slacking off the english team. there is a lot of good players in the team and we all know that (but maybe a terrible coach... i blame it all on sven...!!)

however i have been wondering about the media and how they would say stuff that rooney is a god etc before the wc even started... i mean how can the poor guy live up to such a standard? even the thread on here i believe we can win this worldcup....never use the word win until you win ...that is my superstition (which i wish i had applied before the italy-germany game...i blame myself now that i was too siegesicher..)

 

[tangerinedream]

yay! italy-france on sunday.

and germany-portugal for the loosers game.



i don't know what ABE means (?) but i think people should stop slacking off the english team. there is a lot of good players in the team and we all know that (but maybe a terrible coach... i blame it all on sven...!!)

however i have been wondering about the media and how they would say stuff that rooney is a god etc before the wc even started... i mean how can the poor guy live up to such a standard? even the thread on here i believe we can win this worldcup....never use the word win until you win ...that is my superstition (which i wish i had applied before the italy-germany game...i blame myself now that i was too siegesicher..)

ABE = 'anyone but england' which is a name given to non-england fans who would rather anyone other than england won what ever game they are playing. So, for example a welsh person suporting Paraguay. Personally I think it's all part of the fun and can't see why people get so angry about it!

ABU = Anyone but (Man) Utd - as above, but with Man U obviously.

 

[William of Walworth]

ABE = 'anyone but england' which is a name given to non-england fans who would rather anyone other than england won what ever game they are playing. So, for example a welsh person suporting Paraguay. Personally I think it's all part of the fun and can't see why people get so angry about it!
.

You maybe haven't read certain ABE posts here

 

[tangerinedream]

You maybe haven't read certain ABE posts here

I've read pretty much all the threads on England games. In general though, I find it shocking, the outrage from people saying stuff like 'why don't the scots support england?' - er.... doh!

I've not seen any ABE stuff that has angered me especially. Sure, the idea that every England fan is scum is a bit offensive but most of it is tongue in cheek. Maybe I've missed some bits.

 

[Descartes]

The animosity against the Egland teams stems from the farical behaviour of Sven, a man entrusted with the responsibility of guiding the 'England ' team to success. A man fooled by a News of the World reporter dressed as an arab and buying expensive drinks, fooled by a Dark haired bimbo, and a blonde or brunnete or... well did it ever matter....but, it undermined his standing as England trainer/manager

The seemingly erratic selection, the inability to motivate, the lack of foresight, all contibute to a man looking lost and apparently totally lacking a cohesive plan for the beloved game of football and the national team

The apparent lack of passion, well, on the football pitch, did little to endear the man to the general public, or even the football supporters.

The mix match of talent and instructions belies the talent of the individual and the overall capability of the team, an ability to confuse the player, playing out of position, and without the essential ability to address the media,

Football supporters, will support their team, national, local, sunday league, school or what ever thorough thick and thin, thro the rough and the smooth, It's not about constant wins, about seeing cups on shelves, it's about a belief, a faith that your team will win, maybe not this time but.. they will win, it's about the individual talents, the ability, seen and identified, and most of all, street cred,,,,, The ball skills seen weekly, the nuance of a masterly player, all contibute to the love of the game.

I have friends who I say are obessed with the game and in the support of their clubs, they call it passion and that passion over rides common sense, a sense of reality and any thought or consideration that they will continue to lose.

That is what you face when you try to contradict or persuade the football supporter that ' HIS' side is not playing at full strenght, not doing the biz, and was beaten by a better side.

Face up to it, reality is not just believing but having the faith... regardless.
and if you believe that you can persuade, deter or even convince the Fotball supporter that he is wrong, you are just at the other end of the argument with similar ideas, similar passions but facing an unmoving adversary.

Consider, when did an argument on the net ever persuade someone they were wrong or change their mind.

Remember, self praise is no praise at all

 

[William of Walworth]

I've read pretty much all the threads on England games. In general though, I find it shocking, the outrage from people saying stuff like 'why don't the scots support england?' - er.... doh!

Where did you dream that one up from then? Anyone on URBAN who urges the Scots to support England is either a cretin, or on a deliberate windup, and in any case vastly outnumbered by rational England supporters who neither expect nor want Scots to support England. Just to be less bitter, negative, sniping and in a few cases bigotted** about it ...

**(lumping all England fans in with the worst, making out that all England fans are Empire worshippers, etc.)

I've not seen any ABE stuff that has angered me especially. Sure, the idea that every England fan is scum is a bit offensive but most of it is tongue in cheek. Maybe I've missed some bits.

You probably did.

As for Descartes' long spiel above, I think it FAILS to take into account that on Urban at least, some of the most merciless critics of Sven and the team and the performances of England, have come from England supporters!

Which is why all this nonsense that some ABEs indulge in, dragging in criticisms of Englands undeniably shite performances to threads about totally irrelevant games that happened after England deservedly went out, as if each and every England supporter is an uncritical worshipper of every aspect of the team, is such a load of bollocks.

 

[zed]

As for Descartes' long spiel above, I think it FAILS to take into account that on Urban at least, some of the most merciless critics of Sven and the team and the performances of England, have come from England supporters!

Which is why all this nonsense that some ABEs indulge in, dragging in criticisms of Englands undeniably shite performances to threads about totally irrelevant games that happened after England deservedly went out, as if each and every England supporter is an uncritical worshipper of every aspect of the team, is such a load of bollocks.

Yep. I am one of those people.

In fact I have probably now arrived at the point where I have complete contempt for English football, the FA, the myopic supporters and the moronic attitude of many of the players.

I am sick of them not evolving and totally unable to compete at the highest level. it's like they are living in an altered state. I have had 30 years of watching the same bullshit and I have had enough.

I am almost at the point of becoming an ABE myself. I'm serious.

Fuck England.

 

[William of Walworth]

Regardless of the fact that the opinions of myself and others here have opinions completely out of kilter to what you describe, ie far more critical ones?

Do you really think all England fans refuse to accept the many and justified criticisms?

 

[Belushi]

IME most of the people with a real interest in soccer are much more realistic about England than those who only support England during the big tournaments, ime they are the ones who get carried away by the papers hype and get convinced that England have it in the bag.

 

[William of Walworth]

IME most of the people with a real interest in soccer are much more realistic about England than those who only support England during the big tournaments, ime they are the ones who get carried away by the papers hype and get convinced that England have it in the bag.

True enough!

Most people (here) with a real interest in 'soccer' call it FOOTBALL though ... ... but lets not get distracted now ...

 

[Belushi]

True enough!

Most people (here) with a real interest in 'soccer' call it FOOTBALL though ... ... but lets not get distracted now ...

I dont have much of an interest in Association Football tbh William, more a Rugby and Cricket fan.

 

[William of Walworth]

I dont have much of an interest in Association Football tbh William, more a Rugby and Cricket fan.

Clearly not but we'll no doubt get back around to that one another time ...

 

[Descartes]

You miss the point, amongst England supporters there is a wave of dissatisfaction but, be in a pub when anyone else critises the play and listen to the defense, better than anything Sven could engender, of the players and the games.

Cheers.

 

[William of Walworth]

You miss the point, amongst England supporters there is a wave of dissatisfaction but, be in a pub when anyone else critises the play and listen to the defense, better than anything Sven could engender, of the players and the games.

Cheers.

Oh, I'm sure thats happened in quite a few pubs. Doubtless I'm guilty sometimes of overextending the way a lot of Urbanites argue as if that applies everywhere

The anti-criticism thing wasn't really happening in my local though. They tend to be (older, more sensible!!) Millwall fans there, and have criticism of the team they support built into their system! and that applied to England this World Cup, as well.

 

[Descartes]

Tee Hee, visit any of the pubs in the Mitcham, Morden, area.. full of Chelsea supporters and hear the support for the players.... the defense of the player, playing two mid field, etc etc... not the players fault but the trainer.... then you get the 'older' quoting ... best troops and worst generals... and the young are just buying the shirts, etc......

But, the flags on cars have almost disappeared...

 

[tangerinedream]

Where did you dream that one up from then? Anyone on URBAN who urges the Scots to support England is either a cretin, or on a deliberate windup, and in any case vastly outnumbered by rational England supporters who neither expect nor want Scots to support England. Just to be less bitter, negative, sniping and in a few cases bigotted** about it ...

**(lumping all England fans in with the worst, making out that all England fans are Empire worshippers, etc.)



You probably did.

As for Descartes' long spiel above, I think it FAILS to take into account that on Urban at least, some of the most merciless critics of Sven and the team and the performances of England, have come from England supporters!

Which is why all this nonsense that some ABEs indulge in, dragging in criticisms of Englands undeniably shite performances to threads about totally irrelevant games that happened after England deservedly went out, as if each and every England supporter is an uncritical worshipper of every aspect of the team, is such a load of bollocks.

DId I say 'on urban'? No I didn't.

 

[William of Walworth]

Fair enough Blackpool man, but on Urban, an awful lot of the sweeping criticisms of England and everything whatsoever to do with them, are aimed indiscriminately. And entirely realistic, fully-critical-of-England Urbanites, are treated as if they're Sun reading 'nothing whatsoever wrong with England it's all Ronaldo's fault' types.

 

[tangerinedream]

Fair enough Blackpool man, but on Urban, an awful lot of the sweeping criticisms of England and everything whatsoever to do with them, are aimed indiscriminately. And entirely realistic, fully-critical-of-England Urbanites, are treated as if they're Sun reading 'nothing whatsoever wrong with England it's all Ronaldo's fault' types.

To which I objected before anyone else if you look. Just don't understand why I havn't noticed this awful criticism, when if you look, I have defended England's performances more than anyone. sure I've seen a few people like Jagga or whatever he's called winding people up, (you are going to get that - it's a football tournament) but to say that bigotry is rife is to me making far more out of it than there is imo.

If I say all Burnley fans are slack jawed inbred locals am I a) a bigot or b) having a laugh? If I get called a donkey shagger, should I ring the police?

 

[JTG]

If I say all Burnley fans are slack jawed inbred locals am I a) a bigot or b) having a laugh? If I get called a donkey shagger, should I ring the police?

having visited Turf Moor, I would say that you were c) very observant