Germany to open Holocaust archive
- Thread starter TAE
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
toggle said:
Will he/she though?
After all, astronaut believes he/she has the right to shove his/her opinion down other peoples' throats becase astronaut is "right" and other people (the ones who don't agree with astronaut) are wrong.
It's worth noting how astronaut's "Muslim SS unit with it's own facilities" is actually revealed to be an operational Waffen SS unit in the field against partisans through tangentlama's scholarship. The the SS-Totenkopfverbände formations and the fighting formations, although both "SS", weren't interchangeable except in terms of indoctrination.
toggle
wobbly
astronaut said:
but you still had to repeat it several times.....
So whose propeganda do you like to spread?
And I think this shows exactly how much things like the holacaust archives are needed. The whole idea of using the holacaust to try and stir up trouble absolutely disgusts me. The more people know about it, the less that peopel can use it to try and create racial and ethnic tensions or gain support for their faction
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
frogwoman said:
Which is why some of us tend to check the "background information" before posting, innit?
JoePolitix
Gone
Aldebaran said:
The charge that Muslims as a group were somehow complicit in the Holocaust is rebuked here:
http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2003/11/002080print.php
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
astronaut, who says they are 'batting for peace', brings the Balkan Muslims and 'The Palestinian Problem' into a thread about the Holocaust*...when right now, an 86 yr old Holocaust survivor is concerned about whether or nor she can afford dentures to replace her broken ones so she can eat properly...
i won't pretend i'm not annoyed, especially after recent events also involving young astronaut, but if it was done innocently, then never mind, but if you had some idea you would label some of us extremist, and i am actually so annoyed, i'll stop writing, since the sentence i just wrote was unprintable.
but after this weekend's antics involving astronaut, does anyone blame me?
*mentions both at least three times, but makes no effort to verify whether what he's repeating is true
i won't pretend i'm not annoyed, especially after recent events also involving young astronaut, but if it was done innocently, then never mind, but if you had some idea you would label some of us extremist, and i am actually so annoyed, i'll stop writing, since the sentence i just wrote was unprintable.
but after this weekend's antics involving astronaut, does anyone blame me?*mentions both at least three times, but makes no effort to verify whether what he's repeating is true
frogwoman said:
maybe off topic, but i'm gonna pull you up on that
the worst thing about the holocaust imo was that so many went along with it. hitler and himmler didn't force the whole german state at gunpoint to go down that route, it was a crime perpetrated by a nation, and the 'democratic' countries were also accomplices in their appeasement. to view the holocaust as the work of a handful of sick individuals is a bad route to go down
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
Ninjaboy said:
yep. it was the mechanical, unthinking obedience of many soldiers and civilians that made their crimes possibe ... but equally the state relied on intimidation and terror and there was plenty of opposition ...
its a good topic for a thread actually, but this forum isn't the right palce coz its current affairs innit?
JoePolitix
Gone
Ninjaboy said:
It's true that the Holocaust required the invlovement of thousands of willing executioners to achive it's wicked ends but I wouldn't go as far as to say it was "perpetrated by a nation". Lest we forget that many of the Holcausts victims were German - German Jews, German Communists, German Social Democats etc.
In fact the mass slaughter was conducted using capitalist methods by a bureaucratic-military machine in a totalitarian state without mass involvement.
The Nazi state was itself the expression of the counterrevolutionary victory of the German industrialists over the German working class, most of whom backed the communists and social democrats to the end.
The holocaust was the work of the German counterrevolutionaries not the German nation.
Backatcha Bandit
is not taking your calls
I think what Ninj hints at is that many of the horrors of that time were as much the 'inevitable output of a mechanism' for want of a better way to put it.frogwoman said:yep. it was the mechanical, unthinking obedience of many soldiers and civilians that made their crimes possibe ... but equally the state relied on intimidation and terror and there was plenty of opposition ...
its a good topic for a thread actually, but this forum isn't the right palce coz its current affairs innit?
I can assure you that very few German people at the time had any idea of what was being purpetrated 'in their name'.
An examination of that 'mechanism' and it's actors is certainly appropriate to a current affairs forum, as we can see the antecedents are still very much at work today.
JoePolitix said:
that's what i mean
and also, Hitler's policies were not the reason the capitalist countries went to war with germany, it was for power reasons
not to mentin that the league of nations led by the US helped create the conditions where the Nazi party was allowed to take power....
Excuse me, that is totally twisting the truth.
Violentpanda said: "I mean how many people know that Balkan Muslims were slaughtered in the camps too?"
To which I responded: "From what I've heard, it was the other way around -- Balkan Muslims running camps -- but a brief google shows so much disinformation that I really can't tell what is truthful or not."
So, if this is the sort of truth twisting you like, what else are you twisting?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
At least it isn't a point scoring excercise against Balkan Muslims or 'The Palestinian Problem'* anymore
By all means, return to the thread.
I was just getting my coat.
*shudders
By all means, return to the thread.
I was just getting my coat.
*shudders
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Look. This person has been insinuating that I'm giving out twisted truths, after a weekend of trying his utmost to have me, and others in the ME forum labeled as 'extremist'. I am even now, aghast at his pushing aside of something so nefariously incorrect, in not knowing of the Balkan Muslims, who ARE mentioned at Washington Holocaust Museum.
It's now 2006, and that's 11 years since the Albanian Muslims were honoured with a plaque at the WHM. How can someone who's batting for Jews and Israel not know about Albania, the only place in Europe which at the end of the war, had more Jews that it started out with! http://www.frosina.org/articles/default.asp?id=167
While we're at the Washington Holocaust Museum (check the VideoBooth there), we can find some very interesting information too, about the Think of this parallel: according to Washington's Holocaust Museum, the Jewish mortality of WWII was 5.1-5.4 million.
The museum also tells how a century earlier, during the 19th and early 20th centuries, five million Turks/Muslims were expulsed and another five and a half million were slaughtered. By the time the Germans came to rounding up the Balkan Jews, the Balkan Muslims were largely gone, dead or forced to migrate, with only a small number left, living in pockets of settlement in Greece, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.
Muslims of the Crimea, N.Caucasus, and Russian Armenia had also 'gone'. Between 1821 and 1922, more than five million Muslims were driven from their lands. Five and one-half million Muslims died, some of them killed in wars, others perishing as refugees from starvation and disease.
The Balkan Holocaust cannot properly be understood without consideration of the Muslim refugees and the Muslim dead in the century which preceded the Jewish refugees and the Jewish dead.
After 1922, 'they' (a new 'they' much like the old 'they') came back to purge those lands of Jews, and the Roma, Communists and the Trades Unionists and the Leftists and the Gays and the Disabled and anyone else who would not comply or who got in the way, and if any of you believe that it couldn't happen again, think again, because it can, and it is.
I'm sorry, please forgive my anger, and annoyance, because it's been pretty 'trying', this weekend especially, discussing the Middle Eastern conflict with someone who wants to alienate the players from the field because he perceives them wrongly to be 'extremist'.
We should remember that the Balkan Muslims were not supportive to the Nazis - they ensured their own survival, and survived to mutiny and become a formidable force in the partisan fight against the Nazis! What heros! Especially the Albanian Muslims and Christians, Jews would have suffered all the more. Thankyou! Thankyou!
How many other astronauts are out there, thinking these dreadful things about Muslims?
It's now 2006, and that's 11 years since the Albanian Muslims were honoured with a plaque at the WHM. How can someone who's batting for Jews and Israel not know about Albania, the only place in Europe which at the end of the war, had more Jews that it started out with! http://www.frosina.org/articles/default.asp?id=167
While we're at the Washington Holocaust Museum (check the VideoBooth there), we can find some very interesting information too, about the Think of this parallel: according to Washington's Holocaust Museum, the Jewish mortality of WWII was 5.1-5.4 million.
The museum also tells how a century earlier, during the 19th and early 20th centuries, five million Turks/Muslims were expulsed and another five and a half million were slaughtered. By the time the Germans came to rounding up the Balkan Jews, the Balkan Muslims were largely gone, dead or forced to migrate, with only a small number left, living in pockets of settlement in Greece, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.
Muslims of the Crimea, N.Caucasus, and Russian Armenia had also 'gone'. Between 1821 and 1922, more than five million Muslims were driven from their lands. Five and one-half million Muslims died, some of them killed in wars, others perishing as refugees from starvation and disease.
The Balkan Holocaust cannot properly be understood without consideration of the Muslim refugees and the Muslim dead in the century which preceded the Jewish refugees and the Jewish dead.
After 1922, 'they' (a new 'they' much like the old 'they') came back to purge those lands of Jews, and the Roma, Communists and the Trades Unionists and the Leftists and the Gays and the Disabled and anyone else who would not comply or who got in the way, and if any of you believe that it couldn't happen again, think again, because it can, and it is.
I'm sorry, please forgive my anger, and annoyance, because it's been pretty 'trying', this weekend especially, discussing the Middle Eastern conflict with someone who wants to alienate the players from the field because he perceives them wrongly to be 'extremist'.
We should remember that the Balkan Muslims were not supportive to the Nazis - they ensured their own survival, and survived to mutiny and become a formidable force in the partisan fight against the Nazis! What heros! Especially the Albanian Muslims and Christians, Jews would have suffered all the more. Thankyou! Thankyou!
How many other astronauts are out there, thinking these dreadful things about Muslims?
Yes, that's right -- you implied that I was promoting this story -- when I fucking wasn't.
What are you on about -- I said from the very beginning that I don't know the truth.
Do I have to apologize now for every hole in my knowledge?
It is utterly absurd that you are going on and on about this.
Get off your fucking high horse -- I bet there is a load of stuff you don't know about either -- like behaving like an adult for one.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
astronaut said:Yes, that's right -- you implied that I was promoting this story -- when I fucking wasn't.
What are you on about -- I said from the very beginning that I don't know the truth.
Do I have to apologize now for every hole in my knowledge?
It is utterly absurd that you are going on and on about this.
Get off your fucking high horse -- I bet there is a load of stuff you don't know about either -- like behaving like an adult for one.
The sensible thing for you (and anyone else) to do then, would be to not pass comment on subjects unless you know something about them (and by "something" I mean stuff that you haven't "learned" through googling up links specifically for the purpose of commenting on a subject where one's knowledge is veneer-thin).
This practice is just good sense and helps avoid situations where people make themselves look foolish.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
astronaut said:Yes, that's right -- you implied that I was promoting this story -- when I fucking wasn't.
What are you on about -- I said from the very beginning that I don't know the truth.
Do I have to apologize now for every hole in my knowledge?
It is utterly absurd that you are going on and on about this.
Get off your fucking high horse -- I bet there is a load of stuff you don't know about either -- like behaving like an adult for one.
Do you know what day it is
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