German Green leader clears way for collaboration with the right

[bigfish]

From what I gather the Greens have been very effective in Germany - Germany is the leader in terms of an eco-friendly nation-state isn't it? -

Gurrier makes good points in his critique (and his suggestions could be apllied concurrently with the current strategy of using government to achieve goals, I would suggest), but remember that the Greens only got their limited power through gettinga foot in via a coalition government.

Considering that this is still a periphery role, all in all the greens should be congratulated, no?

Congratulated for abandoning their avowed pacifism and grass roots organizational democracy for a tilt at power, you mean?

Three cheers for the Greens... hip, hip.... guffaw!

Also, from what little I know there are a number of green commune type projects running in Germany, strongly related to the Green party, but grounded in a general Green movement that holds sway in Germna hearts and minds.

If the Green movement really does: "hold sway in German hearts and minds" as you seem to be suggesting, then how come Joschka and his cronies only managed to poll 8.1 percent of the popular vote in the recent national election? That's less than the newly formed opportunist Left Party which polled 8.7 percent on its first outing.

 

[bigfish]

... The PSG received 0.03% of the vote in the recent German elections.

Just to clarify further. The PSG stood candidates in only four of Germany’s sixteen states.

The following votes were recorded for the state lists of the PSG (the results of the 2004 European election is in brackets):

Berlin 1,618 [1,404] increase

Saxony 6,368 [3,472] doubled

Hessian 3,311 [1,448] doubled

North Rhine-Westphalia 4,068 [3,828] increase

If these 4 result are projected across all 16 states, the PSG would have polled between 45,000 and 50,000 votes.

 

[districtline]

The same Left Party that formed from a split in the SPD and a bunch of old Eastern Communists?

The only party to have made it into the Bundestag and been ruled out of coalition talks by both the SPD and CDU/CSU?!

come on, pds has never been communist. not ever in its 16 years of existence.

the greens have been highly successful in their social security cuts and sending the bundeswehr into almost every war they can find, thats absolutely right. dont know if thats a good thing though.

a coalition with the cdu/fdp was rules out a long time ago though.

 

[parallelepipete]

The EnviroNAZIS

Most political ecologists contend that authoritarian societies are much less likely to be sustainable societies. As Major Tom said...

 

[Choc]

in fishers defence he is still a green in his heart through and through. the coalition with the cdu and fdp and the greens will not happen. the discrepancies are too big in regards to atom energie (the greens want to get out) and turkey (the greens want that turkey joins the ec) and anything really. it looks like germany will get the big coalition which means cdu and spd will get together. this will be interesting i think such a coalition has not been in history before yet.


of course by stepping up into real politic all day life they had to stop knitting and breastfeeding openly in the bundestag but otherwise the greens are still very green indeed. and they have huge support amongst young people in germany. joschka fisher was voted last year the most liked politician in germany, that is a great success for somebody coming from a green party.

 

[Choc]

the greens have been highly successful in their social security cuts and sending the bundeswehr into almost every war they can find, thats absolutely right. dont know if thats a good thing though.

well district line at least they have managed together with the spd to stay out of one entirely unecessary one that is still ongoing...

i am pretty proud of that actually..

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Just to clarify further. The PSG stood candidates in only four of Germany’s sixteen states.

If the results had been uniform across all sixteen states then the PSG vote would have reached the dizzying heights of 0.1% of the national vote. However there is no reason to assume that their votes would have been as high in the other twelve states. Political parties normally concentrate their efforts in their strongest areas.

While we seem to have a supporter present of this one of the ICFIs, perhaps bigfish would care to comment on a couple of other points relating to this political tendency.

Can you tell me for instance if the WSWS still believes that convicted child rapist Vincent McKenna was the victim of a smear campaign concocted by Sinn Fein and the Irish police?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/vmk-o20.shtml
http://www.rte.ie/news/2000/1121/mckenna.html

Does it still stand by the demented "Security and the Fourth International" campaign, in which the sleazy thug Gerry Healy sought to "prove" that his political opponents were state agents?

 

[Isambard]

leave the squabbling! Question is, is neo-liberalism gonna get a stand in Europe's most populous country, maybe the last bastion of "social democracy"? Sorry, too many workers and their families are jiggling the cents while you are all having a secatrian bun fight.

 

[districtline]

well district line at least they have managed together with the spd to stay out of one entirely unecessary one that is still ongoing...

i am pretty proud of that actually..

afghanistan?

 

[Isambard]

afghanistan?

I don't think Germany is directly involved in Iraq but just about everywhere else.

Don't forget Joschkas glee at bombing Serbia, "radical" my arse.
Neo-liberal imperialist more like.

 

[Choc]

I don't think Germany is directly involved in Iraq but just about everywhere else.

germany is definitely not involved in iraq, thank god!!

the green say of themselves that they are a better opposition party actually. in real politics it is very hard to stay out of wars etc.

 

[districtline]

but they are down there educating the new iraqi police officers, arent they? theyre as much involved as you can be withouth actually sending any troops.

and dont forget serbia.

the greens and their hartz IV is just another neo-liberal party, but dont worry, a party with renate kunst at the helm wont last too long.

 

[Isambard]

a party with renate kunst at the helm wont last too long.

Face like sour milk, wholemeal version of Merkel.
Claudia Roth, now she's sassy!

 

[JTG]

Exactly. Not quite sure where the WSWS got its info from.

They made it up as part of the usual Green bashing nonsense from lots of socialists. The coalition talks lasted what? Half an hour? Dying to jump into bed with the CDU then...

I mostly ignore anything socialists say about Green politics these days, on these boards anyway. The willingness to tell huge porkies and misrepresent is awe-inspiring.

 

[sihhi]

germany is definitely not involved in iraq, thank god!!

the green say of themselves that they are a better opposition party actually. in real politics it is very hard to stay out of wars etc.

There was an interesting court case according to Trot news:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/sep2005/iraq-s27.shtml

His superior also sent him to the army unit’s legal advisor so that “the legal background could be explained” to him. The advisor threatened him with dishonourable discharge and demotion. The soldier challenged the legal advisor over the war’s legality under international law, prompting the advisor to turn to the German defence ministry.

The advisor received a written reply stating that although the German government rejected the war, it had given permission to the US and Great Britain to use its airspace and their military bases in Germany, as well as agreeing to the operation of German AWACS airplanes for the surveillance of Turkish airspace.

 

[districtline]

Face like sour milk, wholemeal version of Merkel.
Claudia Roth, now she's sassy!

and shit in all debates as well, cant believe the greens actually elected her. she's like a less charismatic copy of merkel!

claudia roth, hm. time to drag up that pds sachsen councillor again?

 

[districtline]

I mostly ignore anything socialists say about Green politics these days, on these boards anyway. The willingness to tell huge porkies and misrepresent is awe-inspiring.

you could probably find all the info you want on the greens Hartz IV, agenda 2010 and their wars on "neutral" internet sites if you want to. so good right wing politics that even the cdu wanted a coalition with them!

 

[Isambard]

JTG, don't mix up green politics with Green politics!

Rumour mill has it that "Jamaica" might be back on the cards..............

 

[exosculate]

I read that as Germaine Greer - i think i need to sleep.

 

[Isambard]

I read that as Germaine Greer.

Sour faced middle class conservative woman in unjustified claim to power shocker!