Georgia invading South Ossetia

[david dissadent]

Is it a coincidence that this happened the day the olympics opened or has someone thought that its a good time to act?

 

[bendeus]

Can't be a coincidence, surely. The Chinese must be tamping having their shiny new opening ceremony derailed by a bunch of deranged Slavs.

 

[slaar]

Definitely not a coincidence.

There was a nice shot earlier of Bush talking to Putin at the stadium.

The Georgian President is actively calling for the US to intervene:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/georgia.russia2

The Georgian president, Mikhail Saakashvili, said it was in US interests to help his "freedom-loving" nation.

In an interview with CNN, he said: "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory.

"It's not about Georgia any more. It's about America, its values. We are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack."

Major brinksmanship.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Surely if the majority of people in South Ossetia want to break away then what is the problem ? I dont remember to many people getting upset when NATO allowed the Kosovo Albanians to break away from Serbia so if self-determination then was was smashing why not now ?

 

[david dissadent]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/russia.georgia1

The current thinking seems to be that the Georgians are trying to run out the Russians in the capital while the rest of the worlds leaders are away at the olympics and Medved is still weak inside Russia. The flaw in this is the Russian president has to act very strong or lose his job.

The Georgians have had extensive US training and been buying loads of kit from Israel and other western powers, the Russian kit is likely to be old and mechanicaly unreliable, unless they have front line formations down there but Russia has so many places it needs its front line formations, East Asia, Chechnya, Ukraine and so on......

 

[kyser_soze]

It's gotta be a little embarrassing for the Russian air force if they've lost a couple of jets...

"It's at a time when everyone's attention is elsewhere and most world leaders are not in their capitals.

Hmm, because the world doesn't have 24 global news, and world leaders are hopelessly cut off from their C&C structures whenever they leave a capital city aren't they? And this guy is a paid expert?

 

[mauvais]

It really might be war. Err... what now?

 

[david dissadent]

It's gotta be a little embarrassing for the Russian air force if they've lost a couple of jets...



Hmm, because the world doesn't have 24 global news, and world leaders are hopelessly cut off from their C&C structures whenever they leave a capital city aren't they? And this guy is a paid expert?

On the flip side the two people who really count are at the Olympics opening ceremony where they can rather handily have a instant summit.

 

[tim]

Can't be a coincidence, surely. The Chinese must be tamping having their shiny new opening ceremony derailed by a bunch of deranged Slavs.

either Georgian nor Ossetic are Slav languages

 

[tim]

This has been brewing for months ( if not decades )

Georgia are siding more & more with the West/ NATO and the Russians are paranoid about their borders & any sniff of regional breakaway is clamped down on quite hard

this could spill over to any number of the bogus/ unregognised statelets, fiefdoms and territories that seem to make up the Caucuses

grim

The irony here of course is that the Russians are actually supporting a regional breakaway. Albeit fone rom a state that broke away from the USSR

 

[Poi E]

Fund and arm militia in S Ossetia to provoke attacks in S Ossetia along the dmz. Provoke a trigger-happy Georgian president. Send in the tanks to defend helpless Russians in S Ossetia. Carry on down the Caucasus as the world looks the other way. Bonus!

 

[Dhimmi]

Russia sent troops and dozens of tanks and armoured vehicles into the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia today, vowing to protect its citizens in a move described by Tbilisi's pro-Western Government as an act of war.

A South Ossetian rebel minister said that more than 1,000 people had been killed in overnight shelling of the city of Tskhinvali, the separatist capital which Georgia claimed today to have captured.

In probably the most serious regional crisis since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, at least 50 Russian tanks – and possibly many more – rumbled through the Roki tunnel, which cuts through the Caucasus mountains separating South Ossetia from the Russian province of North Ossetia.

more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4486208.ece

 

[Poi E]

Remember how Milosevic used to send in the JNA to "separate warring factions" and secure peace in Croatia, Bosnia...

 

[Vash]

The price of oil and gas will go through the roof now, it will be a long winter.

 

[david dissadent]

MOSCOW, July 16 (RIA Novosti) - Paratroopers from Russia's 76th Airborne Division arrived Wednesday in North Ossetia to participate in the active stage of large-scale military exercises in the North Caucasus.

The exercise, dubbed Caucasus 2008, involves units of the North Caucasus Military District, mainly the 58th Army, the 4th Air Force Army, Interior Ministry troops, and border guards.

"The personnel, equipment and ammunition are being unloaded at the town of Mozdok" in North Ossetia, a spokesperson for Russia's Ground Forces said Wednesday.

The paratroopers will make a forced march to the assigned zone of operation in the mountains, where they will conduct a series of tactical exercises, including live-fire drills.

The Pskov paratroopers will be later joined by units from an air assault regiment based in the Volga region, which will be transported to the Krasnodar Territory by rail and conduct a forced march to the exercise zone.

The exercise is taking place on the territory of Chechnya, North Ossetia, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, and Karachayevo-Circassia.

Lt. Col. Andrei Bobrun, an aide to the commander of the North Caucasus Military District, earlier said the exercise involves some 8,000 military personnel, about 700 combat vehicles and more than 30 aircraft.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080716/114129465.html

Looks like this was not totaly unexpected and perhaps the units are a bit more front line than Id thought.

 

[greenman]

It is not looking good. Casualties mounting and more forces engaging in battle -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550354.stm

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The US trained the Georgian Army. Georgia desperately wants into nato to keep Russia off its back. Russia is playing a clever game in this region at the moment.

The Georgian media are calling in everyone with military training.

Come on, just say it. A war between Georgia and Russia will be the fault of the Americans.

You know you want to.

 

[slaar]

The irony here of course is that the Russians are actually supporting a regional breakaway. Albeit fone rom a state that broke away from the USSR

Not really. South Ossetia would be all but part of Russia if it broke away.

 

[david dissadent]

Oh Jesus the words Anschluss and Sudatenland are being mentioned by some Americans.

 

[PaulOK]

I can't see the Russians doing any less than invading South Ossetia.

Yep - But if Georgia succeeds in joining NATO then they'll go the whole hog.

There is certainly a plan by NATO to surround Russia. I reckon Russia will join forces with China over the next decade and we will have a new Cold War. The whole 'War on Terror' will be relegated to a side show.

 

[joevsimp]

There is certainly a plan by NATO to surround Russia. I reckon Russia will join forces with China over the next decade and we will have a new Cold War. The whole 'War on Terror' will be relegated to a side show.

but surely that would make us at war with Eastasia and Eurasia at the same time comrade

 

[dylanredefined]

Thank fuck I turned down the chance to go and play soldiers in georgia .
Hopefully course is cancelled .

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Interesting display of the new world we're getting today if you look at the Olympic ceremony and this invasion...

 

[free spirit]

Thank fuck I turned down the chance to go and play soldiers in georgia .
Hopefully course is cancelled .

oh dear... does the UK have troops in georgia on exercise as well then?


well that's it then, we've got the russians surrounded - invasion from afganistan on one side, georgia on the other and sneak attack from basra airport base... they may as well surrender now

 

[lobster]

There is certainly a plan by NATO to surround Russia. I reckon Russia will join forces with China over the next decade and we will have a new Cold War. The whole 'War on Terror' will be relegated to a side show.

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) is what its called. China , Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are members.
http://www.sectsco.org/

 

[Biglittlefish]

Come on, just say it. A war between Georgia and Russia will be the fault of the Americans.

You know you want to.

Eh...ok. I was pointing out that Georgia has a well trained, if small, army. I would love the US or EU to step up and help Georgia, but probably can't be done without massive escalation. If Russia wants Georgia they can take it.

My friend here spent the day on the phone to his mam in Tablisi. He has to fly back as soon as he can. Luckily he hasn't served in the Military, so shouldn't be called up. But fuck knows whats goin to happen. Hope this thing ends soon. Let the little Russian cunt Putin and the little Georgian cunt Saakashvilis fuck each other up on their own time.

 

[david dissadent]

One thought to go to bed, to what degree can the west or at least the current US administration leave Georgia swinging in the wind? If they do that others may feel that without the written guarentee of NATO they are at the mercy of the bigger meaner folks locally and so the US may loose influence. Have the Georgians deliberately gamled that assumption?

 

[Mikey77]

Surely if the majority of people in South Ossetia want to break away then what is the problem ? I dont remember to many people getting upset when NATO allowed the Kosovo Albanians to break away from Serbia so if self-determination then was was smashing why not now?

It's the diamond question, but people are willing to buy the double standard: support US strategic wars on the basis of "humanitarian" interventions (a big hit with the left that one) while criticising Russia for their evil support for the seperatists.

Cluster bomb Serbians and you have done something morally right that the press love. Respond to Georgian shelling and you're the devil. These things don't work on principle, just gut reaction and the politics of booh hurrah.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

One thought to go to bed, to what degree can the west or at least the current US administration leave Georgia swinging in the wind? If they do that others may feel that without the written guarentee of NATO they are at the mercy of the bigger meaner folks locally and so the US may loose influence. Have the Georgians deliberately gamled that assumption?

The flip side of that calculation (for the US) is how do they support them without coming into conflict with Russia?

 

[Biglittlefish]

Jesus, horrific pictures on sky news. Russia bombing inside Georgia. Saakashvili wants to declare marshal law. Things are getting really fucked up.