George Orwell And 'Reality' TV

[danny la rouge]

I don't accept that the concept came from 1984, and I don't think it was ever intended that way. The name came from the book, because, in the book, there is a constant presence of television cameras. That is all.

Yup. I'm a fan of Orwell's writing and a 'reality' TV consumer, and I don't think Big Brother owes any much more than its title to Orwell; I think the term came via popular usage rather than directly from the book an its themes.

 

[danny la rouge]

He grassed up fellow traveller communists to the government.

He grassed up what he saw as Stalinists, after his experience in Spain. I'm not excusing it, btw; grassing people to the state for their beliefs is inexcusable, and makes him a scab, but I do think a little context is required.

 

[dodgepot]

He came second on BB4.

as opposed to coming second on 4 soggy biscuits.

 

[damnhippie]

One thing I often think about reality tv is that, described a certain way (and not a very accurate way at that), it sounds like some kind of utopian communist fantasy.

'Da, comrade, when the revolution comes TV will no longer be about the so-called beautiful celebrities, but about ordinary working people. Cleaners and cooks will be celebrated, and the everyday lives of parking attendants and vets will be documented to educate the masses. The idea of fame will whither, and we will all be celebrities.'

hmm, good point. except in reality the idea of fame hasn't withered, it's all been grist to the mill.

 

[kyser_soze]

except in reality the idea of fame hasn't withered, it's all been grist to the mill.

No, but arguably the nature of fame has changed. This is a semi-bugbear for me, since I'm quite anti-hero (as in against heroic myth creations) because they're the primary way of transmitting the message 'inequality is OK'. Fame, of a sort, has become a commoitised and democratised product - the conflation of the 'lifting of the veil' around traditional celebs thanks to the press and it's policy of reporting when they take a shit, the modern media construct of celebrity has in fact removed the 'talent' bit that used to be required of anyone who wasn't aristocracy...fuck it, I want to go and grab some lunch...

 

[fogbat]

who's george orwell?

He wrote War of the Worlds, The Invisible Man etc.

 

[In Bloom]

I wonder, just out of curiosity, how many 'reality' TV fans, and I'm thinking of Big Brother fans in particular, actually know who Orwell was or where the show's concept came from?

Probably the overwhelming majority, given the fame of Orwell's work. I don't know anybody who doesn't know at least the bare bones of 1984, Big Brother, etc.

 

[dodgepot]

He wrote War of the Worlds, The Invisible Man etc.

i thoguht steven spielberg wrote war of the worlds

 

[Guineveretoo]

He wrote War of the Worlds, The Invisible Man etc.

H G Wells wrote War of the Worlds. Don't know who wrote the Invisible Man, but it wasn't Orwell!

 

[kyser_soze]

H G Wells wrote War of the Worlds. Don't know who wrote the Invisible Man, but it wasn't Orwell!

Dey is mockin guin...

Altho I heard that WotW was written by Dakota 'HG' Fanning, channeling the spirit of Richard Burton...

 

[danny la rouge]

H G Wells wrote War of the Worlds. Don't know who wrote the Invisible Man, but it wasn't Orwell!

Wells.

 

[Santino]

Herbert GEORGE WELLs.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Dey is mockin guin...

Altho I heard that WotW was written by Dakota 'HG' Fanning, channeling the spirit of Richard Burton...

I kind of thought it might not be serious, but I don't get how it is funny to pretend that you think Orwell is Wells?

But that's me - never in tune with urban!

 

[isitme]

One thing I often think about reality tv is that, described a certain way (and not a very accurate way at that), it sounds like some kind of utopian communist fantasy.

'Da, comrade, when the revolution comes TV will no longer be about the so-called beautiful celebrities, but about ordinary working people. Cleaners and cooks will be celebrated, and the everyday lives of parking attendants and vets will be documented to educate the masses. The idea of fame will whither, and we will all be celebrities.'

I disagree with this statement. It isn't like the soviet propaganda which aimed to glorify 'workers' rather than the 'celebrities' of those days (royalty, upper class people) it is more imposing artificial values created by the media (which is not controlled by or for the working class)

Shows like Big Brother don't glorify 'normal' people, they try to make out that normal people are celebrities, these shows are all fixed from how they pick contestants and how they represent them in the tiny proportion of what they show going on in the house so that the winners always fit into a pre-made stereotype of a 'normal' person created by the people at Endemol and their advertisers to create basically an advert for what sort of person you are supposed to be if you fit into the demographic the show is aimed at

The point of 'reality' TV is to control and intimidate it's viewers

it's a lot more Orwellian than you think

 

[DotCommunist]

I disagree with this statement. It isn't like the soviet propaganda which aimed to glorify 'workers' rather than the 'celebrities' of those days (royalty, upper class people) it is more imposing artificial values created by the media (which is not controlled by or for the working class)

Shows like Big Brother don't glorify 'normal' people, they try to make out that normal people are celebrities, these shows are all fixed from how they pick contestants and how they represent them in the tiny proportion of what they show going on in the house so that the winners always fit into a pre-made stereotype of a 'normal' person created by the people at Endemol and their advertisers to create basically an advert for what sort of person you are supposed to be if you fit into the demographic the show is aimed at

The point of 'reality' TV is to control and intimidate it's viewers

it's a lot more Orwellian than you think

this man speaketh sense

 

[kyser_soze]

The point of 'reality' TV is to control and intimidate it's viewers

And by what mechanism is this achieved?

 

[danny la rouge]

And by what mechanism is this achieved?

Opiate of the masses? Bread and circuses?

 

[Santino]

I disagree with this statement.

I never agreed with it in the first place.

 

[isitme]

And by what mechanism is this achieved?

cos they pick a bunch of people who are getting more sex than you, look better than you, have better jobs than you etc so you feel that they know something you don't and you have to watch them (and the adverts in between) to find out where you are going wrong

(that's you by the way, not me )

 

[isitme]

I never agreed with it in the first place.

well we agree then

 

[kyser_soze]

No, he's made a specific claim, that BB and it's ilk actively control and intimidate their viewers. Now the control mechanism is obvious - it's all in the edit suite for those who only watch the highlights, it's all in the choice of focussed conversation for the saddos who watch the live feeds. That's an easy one, and has been used a technique for manipulating audiences since forever (including the original FOTW docs).

I would point out that quite often it doesn't work, but that would involve me having to dig through loads of BB related crap I've got on the home pooter...

However, how does a show like BB intimidate it's viewers? That's what I want to know, what's the mechanism by which you can intimidate your audience (as opposed to scare - for me 'intimidate' is threatening and aggressive rather than just scary IYSWIM), and still have them coming back for more AND being insanely hopeful about getting on the show?

cos they pick a bunch of people who are getting more sex than you, look better than you, have better jobs than you etc so you feel that they know something you don't and you have to watch them (and the adverts in between) to find out where you are going wrong

Sorry, when exactly have BBS producers ever picked a group of housemates like that? John Tickle? Craaaaaig? That fucking hideous old plastic surgeried up hag and the bully beef roid boy? Brian whatever his name is the hyperactive heema who is now presenting countdown TV phone in shows at 3am in the morning? Think you might be projecting that BB intimidates you

 

[isitme]

Sorry, when exactly have BBS producers ever picked a group of housemates like that? John Tickle? Craaaaaig? That fucking hideous old plastic surgeried up hag and the bully beef roid boy? Brian whatever his name is the hyperactive heema who is now presenting countdown TV phone in shows at 3am in the morning? Think you might be projecting that BB intimidates you

They are definetely picked to represent a type of lifestyle and person. I wasn't just talking about the people who win, I was talking about the social dynamic they represent within the house through the series and how they present the show on TV

 

[kyser_soze]

Still a bit lost on how that's intimidating. Look at Welsh Helen - about the least intimidating person on the planet. Jade Goody - the only thing intimidating about her is the question that forms in your head saying 'She's so stupid does she have to be poked to remember to breath?'

Give me some housemate examples, or examples of the dynamic working in this way. Not being an arse on this, am genuinely intrerested in how you could fold an intimidatory undertone into a show that is in part based around limited interaction with the viewers.

 

[isitme]

but these are all the ones that won. it always starts off with a group of sexy young people being loud and shouty and having a great time, and a couple of not so young people who you don't want to be

by the last couple of weeks everyone seems to vote for the bland quite nice but not that interesting ones

I haven't watched it properly since that one where that irish heema won it, just flicked past it, but it's always got that hollyoaks sort of feeling of people who's life is better than yours. intimidate isn't really the right word, I was trying to find a word for 'to make one insecure' but i couldn't think of it

 

[kyser_soze]

Play on people's insecurities? Hmm, maybe, but I've always had the impression that like Jeremy Kyle, BB is more about putting freaks in a bear pit and having them scratch at each other for our voyeuristic plaisir - if anything I've felt utterly superior to every single housemate that's ever been in there!

 

[dodgepot]

it's always got that hollyoaks sort of feeling of people who's life is better than yours. intimidate isn't really the right word, I was trying to find a word for 'to make one insecure' but i couldn't think of it

i really don't see that myself.

 

[kyser_soze]

In fact, the only people who I feel even a little bit 'OOO' about on telly are the dragons...everyone else on telly is shite, except John Snow from C4 news, who's a dude.

 

[Santino]

It contributes to a general structure of oppression, man. Like, the best thing you can aspire to is the mass approval of the kind of cheering idiots who would make a banner to express their dislike for someone they've only ever experienced through the heavily-edited medium of a television game show.

 

[kyser_soze]

It contributes to a general structure of oppression, man. Like, the best thing you can aspire to is the mass approval of the kind of cheering idiots who would make a banner to express their dislike for someone they've only ever experienced through the heavily-edited medium of a television game show.

Already been there brother...

No, but arguably the nature of fame has changed. This is a semi-bugbear for me, since I'm quite anti-hero (as in against heroic myth creations) because they're the primary way of transmitting the message 'inequality is OK'. Fame, of a sort, has become a commoitised and democratised product - the conflation of the 'lifting of the veil' around traditional celebs thanks to the press and it's policy of reporting when they take a shit, the modern media construct of celebrity has in fact removed the 'talent' bit that used to be required of anyone who wasn't aristocracy...fuck it, I want to go and grab some lunch...

 

[isitme]

It's not that blatant tho is it, it's what they normalise. Obviously it's only freaks who sit at home and go 'oooh i wish i was like craig from big brother' etc

but if you watch 'reality shows' and so on day in day out and talk about it at work it becomes part of how 'people go on' in your view. that's the whole point, they are just 'normal people' like you and your friends, so the way that you see them and their behaviour edited becomes a representation of normal behaviour. people don't copy behaviour directly from TV but things we see on TV do affect our behaviour, it's like how most people don't see adverts and go out and buy stuff straight away but they plant the seed in your brain...