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'Gentrification' and club culture.

Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by caleb, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Dance Tunnel in Dalston joins the long list of London clubs to shut down over licensing concerns. I'm sad to lose a place I've had many a great night out at, thing is I'm sceptical of the arguments that this is all about the 'gentrification' of London. It is and it isn't, but I have no doubt the existence of spots like Dance Tunnel in Dalston is the result of gentrification itself, and something that further pushes it, even if it ends up being one of its eventual victims. It's telling that a lot of the responses to DT (and other venues shut down), stress their economic importance.

    Are there any attempts to look at night time economy and its relationship to gentrification?
     
    dialectician likes this.
  2. rutabowa

    rutabowa YUPPIES OUT

    Oh I liked that place. it definitely only opened once dalston was well on the way to being super trendy tho. dalston superstore opened quite a bit before i think?
     
  3. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    I liked it too, but I don't think the answer to the closure of London clubs is an appeal to the relevant authorities to recognise the economic importance of the night-economy (they already do, look at Night Tube), nor do I think we should turn a blind eye to the fact that gentrification is driven by their existence (look at the pizza joint above, owned by the same person and branching out to Shoreditch and Croydon...) Yea, DS has been around since Dalston started to become trendy.
     
  4. ffsear

    ffsear Well-Known Member

    Bet Fabric will be gone soon too!
     
  5. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    My money is on Corsica.
     
  6. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    I think the issue is that nightclubs are fine and dandy when an area is not especially economically active.

    Plastic People in Shoreditch is maybe a good example - a great club which was incredibly culturally important, in an area with not much else going on. It coexisted with a restaurant above it for a few years (but they had to keep the sound down until about 11). Then the area changes and becomes more desirable to particular people - ironically because places like PP had made it fashionable. This brings with it lots of young people going out of an evening - and also people buying up flats, businesses etc.

    Then there are complaints about noise, drugs, ASB etc...

    Night time economy is important but I think it will always be trumped by more conventional economic activity.

    There's a general trend to push stuff out of Zone 1 I think. Reggae nights that used to be held in warehouse spaces in Hackney are now moved up to Tottenham, Edmonton, Acton.

    There was a thread on Hackney Council's "cultural quarter" licensing stuff I will try to dig out.
     
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    let's not get onto the council's notion of culture :(
     
    Fozzie Bear and caleb like this.
  8. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    here Hackney council considers midnight curfew on clubs and pubs

    The issue was about opening hours of new establishments - Dalston and Shoreditch had much laxer restrictions than other areas so I think that was an attempt to recognise the night time economy - except places still get shut down. I think the conventional business rate payers and voters will always have more say than a rag tag bunch of promoters and clubbers
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  9. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that per se, it's a fairly standard way of seeing this stuff. But it only really poses one solution, which is to support one smaller group of business owners and landlords, people themselves involved in the process of displacing original working class communities, etc. against another larger group.

    Why not start from the point of seeing London as a city where leisure is increasingly for the very few, where most of us are working for longer hours with very little free time and even less disposable income?
     
  10. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Cheers for the link mind, I remember that.
     
  11. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    not to mention a dwindling array of venues to go to: something like half of london music pubs have gone in the last ten years, e.g. the torrington in north finchley, larger venues (e.g. the astoria) have closed too. and when you look at clubs in that context, it's a fucking poor lookout.
     
    caleb likes this.
  12. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Well yes, that is exactly the pov I would start from, but my experience shows that this isn't the way that Hackney Council understands things when it comes to making actual decisions. (Though they will pay lip service to it of course).

    So the issue is - how to make them listen?
     
  13. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    I hear it said that "young people these days" aren't into clubbing in the same way that people in their 20s were, say, 10 or 20 years ago. Is that true and if so is a dwindling demand also part of the reason we're seeing so many places shut down?
     
  14. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    Was about to say pretty much the same thing.

    Interesting article in the Guardian about this the other day citing many reasons why the key market (millennials) don't go out as much as the previous generation such as expense, early closing, smoking ban, rise of social media, rise of healthy living. I don't doubt that gentrification /high rents have a part in all of it too though.

    'I’d rather chill in and relax': why millennials don't go clubbing
     
    grit likes this.
  15. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Any details on why DT is closing exactly? is it a noise complaint?
     
  16. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

  17. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    NOt clear to me why still? They want to go longer than 3?
     
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

  19. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it's not really all that clear, it's basically, 'we can't afford to stay open unless we can stay open later...'
     
    Fozzie Bear and ska invita like this.
  20. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    not quite gentrification really then.
    3am finish in a fairly residential area cant be that surprising really
     
    Fozzie Bear likes this.
  21. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    The argument is it is gentrification because Hackney council are motivated by a desire to clean up Dalston cos of bungs from property developers building luxury flats whose residents will make noise complaints.
     
  22. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Also note, the petition against DT's closure directed at Hackney Council (now at over 3k signatures) is a bit pointless in this context.
     
    Fozzie Bear likes this.
  23. Dan U

    Dan U Boompty

    this is worth a read - Dan Beaumont was part of the conversation about this very issue, somewhat presciently.

    What's the way forward for UK nightlife?

    Dan Beaumont from that discussion

     
  24. caleb

    caleb Well-Known Member

    Any Tory can or would make that argument.
     
  25. rutabowa

    rutabowa YUPPIES OUT

    wheeyy
     
    Fozzie Bear, Dan U and caleb like this.
  26. Rik

    Rik Well-Known Member

    Was quite shocked about DT closing. Had some great nights in there. I thought DT would've been safe from the new restrictions laid out by Hackney Council - No new music venue that goes beyond the hours of 1am is allowed to open. Covering Dalston up to Stoke Newington. This is what I read about a year ago or so... don't know if it has changed. So was a bit miffed to hear this licence imposed on DT.

    Too many clubs are closing. Especially in zone 1 & 2. With the night tube coming in, I wouldn't be surprised if more music venues open up in zone 4 and beyond. Eventually the night tube will open to other lines. So this could happen. But this is exactly what gentrification is doing. Pushing everyone out as far as possible. And they're winning.
     
  27. rutabowa

    rutabowa YUPPIES OUT

    It seems from the article that they would still be fine to open till 3am, but reckon that long term they need to have occasional 5am finishes which are difficult to get... I think
     
  28. Dan U

    Dan U Boompty

    Innit.

    Bring that on I say.
     
    teuchter likes this.
  29. Rik

    Rik Well-Known Member

    I know the cost to run a shop, restaurants and bars etc is astronomical around Dalston and Stokey. Shops come and go within months of opening in Stoke Newington. And there's people with a lot of money around there. So I think DT need those extra 3 hours a night to pay their way.
     
  30. Dan U

    Dan U Boompty

    Might open a rave venue in Croydon.
     
    ska invita and Rik like this.

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